Whats wrong with this picture ?

[dan sherman]

Since I'm more than a little annoyed by this, here is a re-post from my blog.

The following photo is a close up of the arbor on my 10" Delta Contractors saw (model TS350). I purchased this saw new in 2004 at Lowe's, and until today it's done everything I've asked of it.

http://www.dans-hobbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/tabesawarbor-480x360.jpg (http://www.dans-hobbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/tabesawarbor.jpg)

Give up? It's not a consistent diameter, the threaded section is 0.610", the non threaded section is 0.557", & the standard mounting surface is 0.6245" (what it should be). So what does that mean? Well that nice Freud dial a dado set I just purchased is essentially useless on this saw.

[Dewey Torres]

Call this guy and see if he still has this saw:

http://chambana.craigslist.org/tls/1123291243.html

Seriously,
Things like this will make you want to upgrade to a cabinet saw!

[dan sherman]

That would be nice, but I don't even have 220 in the shop let alone 3 phase.

Besides, SWMBO will kill me if I buy any more tools before she gets some furniture :D. However a hybrid or cabinet saw is on the "tools to be purchased list", and I bumped it up to the top after today.




Call this guy and see if he still has this saw:

http://chambana.craigslist.org/tls/1123291243.html

Seriously,
Things like this will make you want to upgrade to a cabinet saw!

[Dewey Torres]

I agree... three phase is less than optimal but the 220v outlet is a cinch job for your local electrician and the full 3hp cabinet saws rock (provided you can find a deal on one). Either way (hybrid or other) you will have a few bucks toward it once you sell this one to some person who will likely never use a Dado set on it.

[Lance Mayer]

A fellow in out woodworkers club brought up a similar issue on an old Crafttsman table saw. A machinest in the group suggested using some metal repair material like Belzona to build up the shaft. Then, carefully, run the motor without the blade and use a file to bring the built-up area down to the proper diameter.

You could also contact Delta and see if they make good on this.

[Paul Murphy]

Hi Dan, I had a very similar issue with my own saw. I went ahead and bought a new arbor & bearing assembly, and for less than $100 the saw is better than new.

[Chip Lindley]

IT means the saw was manufactured this way for mounting a standard saw blade! Older (or better) saws have the Acme threads *ground* into a 5/8" shaft. Thusly, the full length can be used for dados, etc. Your arbor was no doubt machined (more cheaply) on an automatic lathe.

If you need the use of a dado, another saw with a full arbor is in order. *FIXING* the arbor will certainly be a hit or miss proposition, (using some sort of goop and a file) if any tight tolerances are expected!

[David G Baker]

I have discovered that newer Delta equipment does not come close to the quality of most of their older equipment in many cases. I agree with Paul that getting a new arbor and bearing assembly and replacing the old one is probably the best idea. If the shaft was made that way, how long before the bearings go bad on you?

[glenn bradley]

Older (or better) saws have the Acme threads *ground* into a 5/8" shaft.


I have discovered that newer Delta equipment does not come close to the quality of most of their older equipment in many cases.

I'm with Chip. I guess in my limited experience I have never seen a non-acme threaded tablesaw arbor. By design, those sharp threads are destined a short life. I'm also with David; although I have some, I see no more Delta products in my future unless they are as old as I am ;-). Delta has gotten quite difficult to deal with as far as information goes but perhaps when replacing the arbor there is an acme version(?). Good luck and keep us posted.

[David DeCristoforo]

Unfortunate. But these machines are designed to hit a particular price point. Corners must be cut to accomplish that. For the most part, even the most well respected manufacturers are "dumbing down" their overall quality to produce tools that can be sold in stores like L***, H*** D****, M*******,etc for prices that, if you really think about it, are way lower than what you would reasonably expect to pay for a top quality tool. It doesn't matter how "venerable" the name on the badge is. Nor does it matter what the tool is. Table saws, miter saws, drills... whatever.

In a way, this is a deception because most buyers, especially those without "years of professional experience" will tend to trust the name to evaluate overall quality. If the tool carries the Delta or Porter Cable or DeWalt brand name, it is often assumed that means it's is a "quality" tool. But the reality is that many of the tools sold in the "BORGS" are not even made by the company whose badge they bear. Rather, they are made in a factory that produces "generic" tools and badges them for various manufacturers. Often, minor design and cosmetic differences are incorporated to produce tools that bespeak the brand name's identity (yellow bodies for DeWalt tools, etc.). But underneath they are essentially the same.

Much of what would constitute this "corner cutting" is discernible "on the surface". The extensive use of plastic, flimsy fences and miter gauges, obviously cheap switches and other fittings should all warn of many more not so easy to see "clips" like your poorly machined arbor, excessive runout, lack of adjustments, etc. Unfortunately, many of these shortcomings are not noticed until the day comes when you try to mount a dado blade on your table saw and suddenly have a "$#!*" moment.

[David G Baker]

David C,
My problem is where to find the brand name products that are of the quality that we expect to be associated with the brand name. What I have to do is to rely SMC fellow Creekers for giving me information based on their experiences or buy used older equipment that has the quality that I want or need.
There are fewer and fewer local woodworking tool stores in my area due to the economy and the ones that still exist may be switching to Borg quality in order to survive.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...where to find the brand name products that are of the quality that we expect to be associated with the brand name..."

Well that's part of the problem. In many cases, the brand name has been "sold out" completely. There is no difference between the router you buy at the "BORG" and the one you buy at the "woodworking tool store". It's not like their are two different versions. We are caught in a downward spiral and there seems to be no bottom. Our only defense is to refuse to buy the products until the quality is restored. But then the prices have to go up (you have to pay more to get more) and people complain about that. There are "good quality" table saws available. Just not at the prices people expect to pay at the "discount stores".

[dan sherman]

Tomorrow, I will call Delta and see what they say about getting a new motor, but I'm not going to hold my breath, because the online customer service center says it's no longer available.

I understand Borg tools being of lower quality because of the target market, but this is more like false advertising.

Check out page 25 of the owners manual, it specifically says not to use a wobble dado set and shows a stacked dado set (though i did purchase an 8" set and they say not to use anything bigger than 6").
http://www.dewaltservicenet.com/documents/English/Instruction%20Manual/Delta/A18095.pdf


Metal working, is another hobby of mine, so I do now how to properly fix this. check this post out from a different forum showing a similar fix.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=421140&postcount=1

[Bob Genovesi]

Since I'm more than a little annoyed by this, here is a re-post from my blog.

The following photo is a close up of the arbor on my 10" Delta Contractors saw (model TS350). I purchased this saw new in 2004 at Lowe's, and until today it's done everything I've asked of it.

http://www.dans-hobbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/tabesawarbor-480x360.jpg (http://www.dans-hobbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/tabesawarbor.jpg)

Give up? It's not a consistent diameter, the threaded section is 0.610", the non threaded section is 0.557", & the standard mounting surface is 0.6245" (what it should be). So what does that mean? Well that nice Freud dial a dado set I just purchased is essentially useless on this saw.

Dan,

The shinny surface closest to the flange measures .6245, the hole in the blade is .625 +/- ???.

Most of these threads are rolled on not cut with a die so the smaller diameter is more than likely what's required to achieve the correct thread diameter and pitch.

I can see where a problem would arise if a blade dropped into the minor diameter. This would create a non concentric situation resulting in a poor cut and allot of vibration.

The next time I'm in the shop I'll check mine and post a photo..

[Alan Schaffter]

One other possibility, though rare- does your saw blade ever slip in use or overspin when the motor shuts down. Since sawblade steel is typically harder than the arbor steel, it will wear out the arbor just like in your picture if the arbor nut is not tight and the saw blade is allowed to slip.

[dan sherman]

Dan,

The shinny surface closest to the flange measures .6245, the hole in the blade is .625 +/- ???.

Please take all my measurements with a grain of salt (+- .001"), because I had to use a caliper in stead of a micrometer. I just measured one of the chippers, and it was 0.626".

As a side know I just figured out a way to get acceptable results. I wrapped the threaded portion with aluminum foil to bring it up close to the correct diameter. now the difference in cut depth is maybe 0.002".

[Chip Lindley]

Dan, if you are a machinist also, you should consider turning a brand new arbor with Acme threads! Make it even LONGER to accommodate the stack dado of your choice! A permanent solution!

[Greg Hines, MD]

In the meantime, you could use a thick washer to push the hub of your dado out to the threaded portion. It would decrease the overall width that you can cut, but at least you could make it work.

Doc

[Erech Myers]

Since I'm more than a little annoyed by this, here is a re-post from my blog.

The following photo is a close up of the arbor on my 10" Delta Contractors saw (model TS350). I purchased this saw new in 2004 at Lowe's, and until today it's done everything I've asked of it.

http://www.dans-hobbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/tabesawarbor-480x360.jpg (http://www.dans-hobbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/tabesawarbor.jpg)

Give up? It's not a consistent diameter, the threaded section is 0.610", the non threaded section is 0.557", & the standard mounting surface is 0.6245" (what it should be). So what does that mean? Well that nice Freud dial a dado set I just purchased is essentially useless on this saw.

Dan,

I had the same saw (TS350) a few years ago. I have a very small garage shop and I was very happy with it as my first table saw, but I quickly found out that it had limitations.

First I ran into the dado limitation you mentioned of not having enough power (I believe the TS350 is 1 hp) to run the 8 inch dado and I did not want to settle for the 6 inch dado.

Second, as I started using plywood more & more, I realized that the 22 inch table (as opposed to 27 inches for the contractor saws) was very frustrating.

So I sold the TS350 on craigslist and put the money towards the new Jet Proshop hybrid (before the big price increase last year). The difference is NIGHT & DAY. If you enjoy woodworking and plan on doing if for many years, a nice table saw is invaluable.

Home Depot is having a big power tool sale right now, so you may want to look at the new granite top Ridgid. It sells for $599, but if you spend over $600 you get $150 off. So find a power tool filler for like $10 and you could get the Ridgid saw for $450. You could probably sell the TS350 for $200 on craigslist which means you are only out $250. Just a suggestion, but I can tell you that you would be very happy with any upgrade to a contractor size table saw or bigger. ;)

[dan sherman]

Dan, if you are a machinist also, you should consider turning a brand new arbor with Acme threads! Make it even LONGER to accommodate the stack dado of your choice! A permanent solution!

Unfortunately, the arbor is really just the end of the motor shaft. :(