Recommendations requested

[bob waxler]

Hi,
I am a newbie to woodworking. I've been trying to decide on either a combo planer/jointer or individual units.
I've been looking mostly at Grizzly. They have a 6" Jointer with and without parallelogram tables and HSS or spiral knives. My understanding is that the parallelogram tables are the easiest to set up and that the spiral knives are the easiest to maintain. My gut is that the benifits of the parallelogram are limited because once set it doesn't need much tweaking.
On the planer side a Grizzly rep suggested the 12 1/2" unit (G0505) saying that the 13" offers little more for more money.
The 10" combo unit looks like it might be the best choice especially with space considerations.
Any input would be welcome. Thanks.

[John Thompson]

The parallegram is no real advantage unless the beds were to get of line. That usually won't happen unless you have employee's that sit on them or generally abuse when you are not watching.:)

The HSS knives are not that difficult to change and I personally prefer them over the cut of the new cutter-heads with the exception of a few squirrely grain woods as maple. Most are going to dispute me on this and will tell you simply must have them. I have been fine without for 38 yars and will be fine for the next 38. It's up to you if you feel it will make a great difference.

As far as planer sizes.. if you intend to get really serious.. the bigger the better so get as large as your shop will hold with what budget you have to abide by. I won't comment on combo machines as I don't have any.

Good luck...

Sarge..

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I agree with Sarge completely on this one.

One other interesting idea on jointers to throw in though. The spiral cutterheads are all the rage right now, because of shear angles being better for gnarly grain, in theory. Well, if you just buy a larger jointer, like 12", and run your stock at an angle, you are creating the same shear angle that the expensive cutterhead produces. IMHO, save the $'s that you would spend on the fancy spiral cutterhead, and invest it in more width.

I have a combo machine, which I love, but a few words of caution. Some combo machines have a fence that attaches in such a way as to require far more space than you think. Some are also a bit of a beast to change over. Don't be tempted to by a cheap j/p. You will most likely regret it. That all being said though, there are some fantastic combos out there. Look at the old reliable European brands, and of late, a couple interesting Asian brands, like Griz, have showed promise.

[Jim Kountz]

For me I have never liked one machine doing several things, It seems like its always in mode A when I need it to be in mode B. That said I can also see where some folks would like such a machine and ever prefer it, space limitations etc. Thats fine and dandy. As far as the cutterheads go Ive had both and right now I do have a spiral cutterhead with the carbide inserts and overall I prefer it and would never go back. Yes they are way simpler to change and get a fresh edge, or to take out a nick. However I do agree with the others here that the cut is not THAT much superior over blades. With the exception of knarly grain or difficult hard woods. If you have the space get seperate machine you will love yourself for it later and even more so if productivity is a factor. If not then maybe this doesnt apply??

[Chris Ricker]

I have the Griz 12" j/p combo, great machine.
If I had the space though I would certainly consider separate machines, simply for ease of use.
Mine has the spiral cutter head which I consider a fantastic option and well worth the $$

[Myk Rian]

I have a Jet jointer and a Dewalt planer. Separate machines is the way to go.

[Larry Edgerton]

The parallegram is no real advantage unless the beds were to get of line. That usually won't happen unless you have employee's that sit on them or generally abuse when you are not watching.:)

Sarge..

I disagree, strongly. I have both in my shop and the parallelagram system is a huge advantage and saves time and wood.

When prepping large quantitys of stock I look at the board, estimate the amount of cut to clean it up and push the lever to where I want it. So I am doing in one pass what would take two or more, or I am saving wood because with a hand wheel I would just set it deep and forget it as changing heights is time consuming compared to the lever. This method has saved hundreds of board feet over the years over when I did it on my Porter and just left it at a fairly deep cut, plus I can match the cut to the curve and save time and energy.

I will always go with a lever/parrallelagram system, not because it does a better job, but because changes are so much faster.

[Cary Falk]

I am a fan of separate machines. I am also a fan of the insert cutter heads for ease of changing blades. I would rather use my extra 3+ hours building somehting then changing blades. I know it shouldn't take that long but for me it does.:(

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I disagree, strongly. I have both in my shop and the parallelagram system is a huge advantage and saves time and wood.

When prepping large quantitys of stock I look at the board, estimate the amount of cut to clean it up and push the lever to where I want it. So I am doing in one pass what would take two or more, or I am saving wood because with a hand wheel I would just set it deep and forget it as changing heights is time consuming compared to the lever. This method has saved hundreds of board feet over the years over when I did it on my Porter and just left it at a fairly deep cut, plus I can match the cut to the curve and save time and energy.

I will always go with a lever/parrallelagram system, not because it does a better job, but because changes are so much faster.

Larry, that is actually the first time I've ever heard of that argument for parallelagram tables. The speed of adjustment is faster with the lever. I guess I've never noticed the wheel being dramatically slower though. Stands to reason, and next time I use a dovetail jointer, I'm going to time it.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I am a fan of separate machines. I am also a fan of the insert cutter heads for ease of changing blades. I would rather use my extra 3+ hours building somehting then changing blades. I know it shouldn't take that long but for me it does.:(


Cary, you might be interested in Tersa,;)

[John Thompson]

I disagree, strongly. I have both in my shop and the parallelagram system is a huge advantage and saves time and wood.

When prepping large quantitys of stock I look at the board, estimate the amount of cut to clean it up and push the lever to where I want it. So I am doing in one pass what would take two or more, or I am saving wood because with a hand wheel I would just set it deep and forget it as changing heights is time consuming compared to the lever. This method has saved hundreds of board feet over the years over when I did it on my Porter and just left it at a fairly deep cut, plus I can match the cut to the curve and save time and energy.

I will always go with a lever/parrallelagram system, not because it does a better job, but because changes are so much faster.

We'll just have to dis-agree on this one, Larry. :) I changed depths on 4 occasions yesterday and usually do daily. I have a scribed mark for exactly 1/16" and one for 1/32". Just a matter of reaching down and turning a wheel about 1/4 of a turn which takes about two seconds. I never push my HSS knives pass 1/16" a pass.

So... I personally don't see the savings and much perfer hand wheels as I have had both.

Regards...

Sarge..

[Cary Falk]

Cary, you might be interested in Tersa,;)
The cost of all of the other options are close in price the the spiral cutterhead. With that being said I like the carbide inserts better.

[Doug Shepard]

We'll just have to dis-agree on this one, Larry. :) I changed depths on 4 occasions yesterday and usually do daily. I have a scribed mark for exactly 1/16" and one for 1/32". Just a matter of reaching down and turning a wheel about 1/4 of a turn which takes about two seconds. I never push my HSS knives pass 1/16" a pass.

So... I personally don't see the savings and much perfer hand wheels as I have had both.

Regards...

Sarge..

I'm considering switching to a J/P just for space reasons but couldn't agree more, though there's no scribed mark required on my PM54. There's a scale and pointer on the side of the beds and I can go right to a nnumber of settings with a few turns of the wheel. I constantly change back and forth between 2 separate depths depending on whether I'm face (lighter cut) or edge jointing. I used a wider jointer with levers several years ago and found it took me longer just because it was fussier to adjust.

[John Thompson]

I'm considering switching to a J/P just for space reasons but couldn't agree more, though there's no scribed mark required on my PM54. There's a scale and pointer on the side of the beds and I can go right to a nnumber of settings with a few turns of the wheel. I constantly change back and forth between 2 separate depths depending on whether I'm face (lighter cut) or edge jointing. I used a wider jointer with levers several years ago and found it took me longer just because it was fussier to adjust.

I probably should have been more clear, Doug. The scribed line is the scale. I use a scrap piece of stock and take a cut after a blade change. The "mic" it to see how close the indicator is. If off.. I adjust it up or down and continue to mic each pass until I derive at 1/16" which is my normal pass. When I hit it I co-ordinate the dial indicator to 1/16 dead on.

I move it to 1/32" and check.. if off I take note of exactly where the indicator is pointed and touch it with a tip of a fine marker. It's very close usually but... when I rip (which I do often) I intentionally rip the stock 1/8" proud so I can take it to the jointer to take 1/16" off each side.

The 1/32" might vary a few .000 but... it is used to take the lighter pass in surfacing cup.. twist.. etc. and not critical to exact the way I work. And.. what you said about the lever being finicky is the reason I prefer the wheel over lever as "I" feel it is much easier to get dead on in the adjustment.

But.. sort of one of those left tilt.. right tilt deals. Both work and to each his own.

Regards...

Sarge..

[Larry Edgerton]

Larry, that is actually the first time I've ever heard of that argument for parallelagram tables. The speed of adjustment is faster with the lever. I guess I've never noticed the wheel being dramatically slower though. Stands to reason, and next time I use a dovetail jointer, I'm going to time it.

I don't ever tighten the lock lever all the way, just snug enough so the table stays in place but still moves with the lever. I can do it with one hand.

And I have no problems when edge jointing taking as much as 1/4" at a pass on a bad board. I have never had a problem and I use a power feed. I adjust the cut almost every pass.

Until lately with the downturned economy I always bought at least a 1000ft at a time, and I rough straighten and rip to the closest 1/2" and store in my overhead storage/attic space with the ends labeled and in order of size. So when you are looking at jointing and ripping that many boards at a time I want to save time. I usually run the tablesaw at the same time with a power feed as well. Keeps me jumping.

[bob waxler]

Wow, I never expected so much from my little post.

I think based on the replys I'm going for the spiral jointer with a conventional table. I'm always concerned with a "one tool does it all" approach.

Question though - is there a consensus on a small planer. As I mentioned in my original post, the rep from Grizzly siuggested their second least expensive unit with conventional knives. I saw a post elsewhere where someone was horribly disappointed with the $600 Steel City unit.
Bob

[Leo Graywacz]

Larry, that is actually the first time I've ever heard of that argument for parallelagram tables. The speed of adjustment is faster with the lever. I guess I've never noticed the wheel being dramatically slower though. Stands to reason, and next time I use a dovetail jointer, I'm going to time it.

I agree with the time factor. If I get rough stock the edge may have a pretty severe crook in it. I can slam it to take off a 1/2" and then back to 1/16" in 1 second. I don't think you can do that with a wheel.

If you have the space and the funds, go with 2 separate machines. You will not regret it.