Poll: What to use for mitre bar stock?

[Brian Smith3]

OK this weekend I'm going to be rebuilding some jigs that are either too awkward or too big or too old. What should I use for the bar stock? I normally just use some Oak or Hard Rock Maple.

[Stan Johnsey]

I'm lookin' for the same thing. I noticed some hard plastic stuff as well that was used in the Super Sled video but no source.

[Jerome Hanby]

I also used Oak (Red, just what happened to be available). I think the plastic stuff mentioned might be UHMW (I think those are the right letters) plastic. Pretty tough and ultra slick.

I think if I was rebuilding a jig I knew would see a lot of use then I'd spring for the Incra bars

[Bruce Page]

I made some UHMW runners for my sled. This is an old pic but so far, so good.

[Stan Johnsey]

I did a search on the UHMW and it turns out Peach Tree has it in 3/4" wide strips designed to be use in miter slots that ain't too expensive.

[glenn bradley]

I have a coping sled where the smallest deviation creates gaps = Incra miter slider at about $14
My normal sized sled has UHMW 'cause "that's what I brung".
My large sled has oak runners 'cause "that's what I brung"
My bevel sled has . . . uh, I forget but the point is . . . it really doesn't matter. Syntho doesn't require care and feeding but I haven't tweaked my oak runners since last year so, what's your tolerance for fiddling ;-)

[george wilson]

Years ago I noticed that for most table saws,USA made ones,the standard miter gauge slop was .014" !!!! Makes you wonder how anyone ever did any accurate work,but we did.This was back in the 60's I measured the slop.

[Peter Quinn]

I like a steel bar drilled and tapped for big sleds, on the last one I drilled 8-32 holes going sideways to hold hard nylon set screws that take out the slop. Now, no slop. I do the same in both wood and UHMW runners. I like maple better than oak for runners, so that's what I bring. I have a set of the incra runners that move from sled to sled now and then, bought them when I was younger, dumber, and wealthier. Now I'm smart enough to spend $60 on machinist tools and bits, and countless hours drilling and tapping, to make a $9 bar of steel behave the way I want.:rolleyes:

Now matter how you make them, if you always push to the same side of the miter slot, even a sloppy fit will do pretty accurate work. Sort of like giving the ball a little english when playing pool.

[Griph0n Brown]

I've used Lee Valley's UHMW for a while, they're precut to slot size. Some pieces come a bit oversized for my slots but it cuts easy on the table saw. Easy to tune with a card scraper, and tighten with a few screws when I screw up and take too much off. I've put Incras on my bigger sled and they're fantasic.

[Ben Franz]

I usually use mild steel or aluminum bar stock drilled and tapped. Most metal suppliers carry the right size stock - I've even seen it at the Borg sometimes.

[Curt Harms]

Is mild steel quite a bit harder than cast iron? If so, is there potential for steel runners to wear cast iron miter slots? I'd prefer the runner wear rather than the miter slot wear, dunno if this is an issue or not.

[Bob Aquino]

I did a search on the UHMW and it turns out Peach Tree has it in 3/4" wide strips designed to be use in miter slots that ain't too expensive.

+1 I bought a piece from Peachtree that was about 4" wide and ripped it to fit the non standard miter slots on my saw. Very easy to machine. I have it on a miter sled and retrofitted it to a tenoning jig. Good stuff. :)

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nh7rpc89jO0/SYXn8FPyrPI/AAAAAAAAGRU/gbTzNgQn2m8/s800/P1030746.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nh7rpc89jO0/SYXn87c3_CI/AAAAAAAAGRc/RJs3_Qga_08/s800/P1030747.JPG

[Larry Edgerton]

I bought 350#s of plastics, mostly UHMW, but some Lexan as well from this company for very little money. They are a plastic manufacturer and wholesaler, but sell their shorts cheap.

Norva Plastics, Norfolk Virginia.

I have shaper fences and all kinds of things made out of plastic, saves on Top Coat....

[Brian D Anderson]

Am I the only one who went with the Kreg runners? They come in 30" lengths and have the nylon screws to adjust the tightness. I have them on my large crosscut sled. No problems so far.

-Brian

[Clifford Mescher]

I like a steel bar drilled and tapped for big sleds, on the last one I drilled 8-32 holes going sideways to hold hard nylon set screws that take out the slop. Now, no slop. I do the same in both wood and UHMW runners. I like maple better than oak for runners, so that's what I bring. I have a set of the incra runners that move from sled to sled now and then, bought them when I was younger, dumber, and wealthier. Now I'm smart enough to spend $60 on machinist tools and bits, and countless hours drilling and tapping, to make a $9 bar of steel behave the way I want.:rolleyes:

Now matter how you make them, if you always push to the same side of the miter slot, even a sloppy fit will do pretty accurate work. Sort of like giving the ball a little english when playing pool.
I did the same thing with my runners. I installed spring plungers.
http://www.springplungers.com/ Clifford.

[David Keller NC]

"Am I the only one who went with the Kreg runners? They come in 30" lengths and have the nylon screws to adjust the tightness. I have them on my large crosscut sled. No problems so far."

No (you're not the only one). I had used maple, UMHW and xytel in the past, but the maple tended to expand/contract too much with changes in humidity, and the UMHW and Xytel wear too fast, leading to too much slop in short order.

THe nice thing about Kreg or the Incra T-Track is that it's aluminum, perfectly stable with changes in humidity, long-wearing, and adjustable for a perfect fit in the slot. That said, the aluminum wears preferentially over the cast iron table top, and I'd sure rather replace the track when it needs it than the TS top!

[Jeff Willard]

Personally, I'd use hard maple, or some UHMW runners that are available from various sources.

[Gene Howe]

I use oak. Somewhere, I picked up a roll of self adhering foil. Makes great shims to take out the slop.

[sean m. titmas]

wooden runners that are beveled and screwed offer the same level of adjustment and quality of service that steel runners do, only at a considerable savings in initial cost.

i use hardwood strips that are eased on the edges that contact the sled bottom so that i can use a scraper or small block plane to trim them down to a precise fit after they are installed. a little butchers wax will keep things gliding nice and after 2 years my sled has needed no adjustment of any kind to keep it running fine.

i might look into using some aluminum runners from Kreg on my next spending spree to see if there is any advantage but i feel that the only benefit will be in the milling/fitting stage and once they are installed and operating properly there is little difference between the two.

[Alan Schaffter]

I use 3/4" x 3/8" cold rolled steel. Slides easy, durable, and you can tap it easily.

For all jigs with runners, regardless of the runner material, I cut a shallow dado in the jig bottom the size of the miter bar, then I square the rest of the jig to the runner and base, not the other way around. That makes it easy to keep everything in alignment when you attach or even replace the runner.

[Dar Lounsbury]

Larry

Could you post a few pictures of your uses of plastic. Always open to better ideas.

Thanks, Dar

[Bruce Wrenn]

From a local agricultural supply company, I buy a wear strip. It is 1" X 3/8" X 120" long. Being UHMW, it machines well. I use table saw to rip slightly oversize, then using a sled in my planer, I get it down to the exact width I need. Some times I also reduce the thickness in my planer. To prevent bulging where the screws are, I drill and counter sink it.

[Larry Rasmussen]

For previous router or table saw sliding jigs I've used Oak or the Incra bars. I was quite disapointed with the Incras. Couldn't get them adjusted to the correct tightness and I felt like the spacing between the adjustments on the track was way too far apart.

I bought a pair of 18" steel bars from my Rockler Store locally in Seattle. They were advertised for $8.99 ea, normally $20 ea. This was in the Feb flyer arriving at beginning of the month. The 18" bar has a series of 4 spring loaded balls inset to hit the side of the miter slot, distributed along the length of bar. A set screw opposite allows the user to adjuster the pressure. I have never had to use the adjustment. I made a sled out of baltic birch and use it in my little portable Bosch 10" table saw with a rather rough pair of miter slots in an aluminum table. I was really suprised how nicely it glided when I screwed down the second bar and flipped the table back over.

I can't locate these bars in the Rockler catalog now 3 months later, they may never have been a catalog item. The packaging was just a plain long clear plastic bag with generic label stapled to top to close. They may have some of these left, I'm going to check next time I go by, I'm exited about making another jig or two. If you see an aftermarket bar with the steel balls adjustable for pressure I recommend it above the Incra style bars or wood or any non adjustable material, especially if there are 4 of them over 18 inches of length.

Regards,
Larry Rasmussen,
Seattle

[Clifford Mescher]

For previous router or table saw sliding jigs I've used Oak or the Incra bars. I was quite disapointed with the Incras. Couldn't get them adjusted to the correct tightness and I felt like the spacing between the adjustments on the track was way too far apart.

I bought a pair of 18" steel bars from my Rockler Store locally in Seattle. They were advertised for $8.99 ea, normally $20 ea. This was in the Feb flyer arriving at beginning of the month. The 18" bar has a series of 4 spring loaded balls inset to hit the side of the miter slot, distributed along the length of bar. A set screw opposite allows the user to adjuster the pressure. I have never had to use the adjustment. I made a sled out of baltic birch and use it in my little portable Bosch 10" table saw with a rather rough pair of miter slots in an aluminum table. I was really suprised how nicely it glided when I screwed down the second bar and flipped the table back over.

I can't locate these bars in the Rockler catalog now 3 months later, they may never have been a catalog item. The packaging was just a plain long clear plastic bag with generic label stapled to top to close. They may have some of these left, I'm going to check next time I go by, I'm exited about making another jig or two. If you see an aftermarket bar with the steel balls adjustable for pressure I recommend it above the Incra style bars or wood or any non adjustable material, especially if there are 4 of them over 18 inches of length.

Regards,
Larry Rasmussen,
Seattle
You can modify any bar to the spring plungers if you can master the relatively easy operation of drilling and tapping threaded holes. The plungers are not expensive.
http://www.springplungers.com/ Clifford

[Julian Nicks]

I've used steel, aluminum, uhmw, and wood. I prefer to use quarter sawn white oak. It is extremely stable( doesn't expand contract much at all), and is readily available( I have 500 bf of it). I make a bunch of them up, that way when I need to make a jig, I have the runners ready to go. All that needs to be done is to drill/countersink them and wax them up.

[Larry Rasmussen]

We like to go eat Sunday breakfast in North Seattle at a place just up the street from Rocklers. I did a drive by this morning after breakfast to check something out and remembered to look at the bars. They have a single bar left of the kind I've been talking about in my post- back up to $20 ea. They will get more but I'm not going to pay $40 up front for sled bars. I was thinking about making a single sliding base and setting it up to be able to drop what ever jig I want to use on top. I'd lose a bit of height capacity that I probably wouldn't need but I'm sure could figure a way for tool less change of jigs that would be convenient.

On the other hand I was wondering on the way home where I could find some of the bullets and just try a couple different set ups in wood with the bullets, maybe space them even closer, or oppostite each other too, or perhaps on the bottom of the bar so it would roll along like a tiny sliding table. What can I say, my wife was driving and I was hopped up on Blue Star Cafe coffee, planning to take over the sled world. Regardless it was fun to come home and find the link you posted Clifford.

Thanks,
Larry Rasmussen
Seattle

[Clifford Mescher]

We like to go eat Sunday breakfast in North Seattle at a place just up the street from Rocklers. I did a drive by this morning after breakfast to check something out and remembered to look at the bars. They have a single bar left of the kind I've been talking about in my post- back up to $20 ea. They will get more but I'm not going to pay $40 up front for sled bars. I was thinking about making a single sliding base and setting it up to be able to drop what ever jig I want to use on top. I'd lose a bit of height capacity that I probably wouldn't need but I'm sure could figure a way for tool less change of jigs that would be convenient.

On the other hand I was wondering on the way home where I could find some of the bullets and just try a couple different set ups in wood with the bullets, maybe space them even closer, or oppostite each other too, or perhaps on the bottom of the bar so it would roll along like a tiny sliding table. What can I say, my wife was driving and I was hopped up on Blue Star Cafe coffee, planning to take over the sled world. Regardless it was fun to come home and find the link you posted Clifford.

Thanks,
Larry Rasmussen
Seattle
Larry
Your welcome. A few years ago a machinist who posted here gave me the heads-up on spring plungers. I ordered various sizes and even tried the delrin (plastic) balls. I installed them on all my sleds and miter gages and they work great and have not made any adjustments. I think I ordered the kind that locks in place. Clifford.

[sean m. titmas]

Larry
Your welcome. A few years ago a machinist who posted here gave me the heads-up on spring plungers. I ordered various sizes and even tried the delrin (plastic) balls. I installed them on all my sleds and miter gages and they work great and have not made any adjustments. I think I ordered the kind that locks in place. Clifford.

what layout and spacing did you use for the balls? can you post a pic of one to show?

[Clifford Mescher]

what layout and spacing did you use for the balls? can you post a pic of one to show?
I'll try to post a couple of pictures.

1st picture is miter gage with delrin balls. 2nd picture is my sled with steel balls. I spaced them about 1" from each end and about 5" between the rest of them. There are 4 or 5 balls according to length of bar. I drilled the holes through the whole bar and inserted them from the opposite side. Hope this helps. Clifford.

[Alan Schaffter]

I was thinking about making a single sliding base and setting it up to be able to drop what ever jig I want to use on top. I'd lose a bit of height capacity that I probably wouldn't need but I'm sure could figure a way for tool less change of jigs that would be convenient.


Thanks,
Larry Rasmussen
Seattle

Larry, see my post in this thread about mounting the miter bar in a dado. If you did it that way you could swap a bar between jigs without worrying about alignment and not lose height capacity either.

[John Petsche]

Great idea on the spring plungers, thanks.

[Wayne Jolly]

While I was at my metal supplier I bought a 10' piece of 3/4 x 3/8 aluiminum flat bar for $12. Works great used "plain", but I have been wondering about the spring balls for a while. I think I have been talked into trying them out. One question though. My PM66 has those t-slots in it. Is there any problem using the spring balls in that type of miter slot?

Thanks,

Wayne

[Rich Engelhardt]

Am I the only one who went with the Kreg runners? They come in 30" lengths
No, you're not alone. I have a Kreg runner I plan to try when my wooden ones wear out.

There seems to be only one tiny problem. The wooden ones just don't seem to want to wear out.

I made mine out of soft pine and forced them in and out of the miter slots repeatedly until the slid freely. Then I slapped a couple coats of shellac on them and waxed them.
I wax them every once in a while & after nearly 5 years, they are still as nice and tight in the slots as they were when I made them.

[Dave Cullen]

I use 3/4 x 3/8 mild steel bar. If I needed another one I'd probably use aluminum. If the fit is a bit loose in the slot you can "dimple" the bar with a punch.

[Anthony Diodati]

Enco has sheets of UHMW plastic, today is 20% off and free shipping.
Codes
CYBER to take 20% off and Promo Code: MONDAY for Free UPS Ground Shipping*.

[Marc Rochkind]

I have two sleds: One with strips of plywood for runners that I cut to size, and one with strips of plastic that I bought from one of popular mail order companies (might have been Rockler). Next time I will use plywood, as it is very easy to place the runners in the slots over spacers, put on a little glue, and then lay the sled base on the runners with the fence as a guide. (Squaring the base to the runners isn't important.) With the plastic runners, the glue I had available wasn't nearly as convenient and took much longer to set up.

You mentioned in one of your alternatives squaring the sled to the blade. No part of the sled should be squared to the blade; rather, the sled's guide should be at 90 degrees to the table. What I do is bolt it on with the bolts loose, and then use test cuts to get it exact. The runners have to be parallel to each other and a snug fit in the slots, but the position of the sled's base isn't important other than for aesthetics.

Of course, if the blade is square to the table, the guide will end up square to the blade, but generally anything that is guiding the work is considered part of the table, not part of the blade.

[Brian Hale]

I've used all types of wood steel and aluminum but by far my favorite is Ipe. wears like steel and after you use it for awhile the edges become polished and slick

Brian :)

[Jim Neeley]

hard maple