raised panels-- to pre-stain or not to pre-stain.

[Jeremy Bracey]

Ok, its obvious I am building a bunch of raised panels right now (after all this is my third raised panel question in about a week, sorry.) I have always stained my raised panels before assembling the frame. I was told to do this so that when the panel shrank and expanded I would not see any stain lines.

In a recent conversation with a local cabinet maker (one of the best reputations in the area) I was told that they never do this and have never had a complaint. In addition, many (even some that post here) buy thier panel doors pre-buillt. Obviously those dont come pre stained.

So what do you do and what is your opinion on the topic?

(I know, I asked for opinions and that always opens up a can :rolleyes:

[Jim Baker]

I've done them both ways. I have now settled on not pre-staining them. I just put plenty of stain and try to work it into the edges of the panel as well as I can. I usually check my panels a couple of times after staining to wipe off any stain that may bleed back out.

[Jerry Olexa]

I try to pre stain whenever poss on RPanel construction. Just an easy precaution. Doesn't hurt!!:)

[Lars Thomas]

I don't bother pre-staining. I just work it into the edges as best I can. Never had a problem. My workshop is in my basement (Heated/AC) so my environemnt is similar to where the doors end up. If your shop (and lumber) are not aclimated to 'in-door' conditions, it would probably be in your best interest to pre-stain/finish your panels.

[Mike Cutler]

I'm a pre-stain fan. I believe that you get a more even staining, without dark lines when pre-staining, but I also pretty much prefinish everything, so this could be a biased opinion. I have seen cabinet doors that get a "tan line", especially in the winter time with woodstoves running in the house. My .02 fwiw.

[Tony Sade]

I'm hardly experienced enough to be taken seriously, but I've read elsewhere that one way to avoid "tan lines" is to use a brush on the panel where it meets the rails/stiles, rather than rag, to work the finish in better, then use air to force it down even further. I'm going to give that a try on my next set of rp's. Given how often I screw things up, I'd rather wait until the last possible moment to finish so as to help hide my mistakes. Cheers!

[Kent Cori]

I prefer to pre-finish them with stain or dye if used and then one coat of the final finish. I then install the panel (don't forget the space balls) and finish the entire assembly with more coats of the final finish (usually a wipe-on poly/BLO mixture in my case). My shop is in my garage in hot, humid Florida. The wood can shrink quite a bit this time of year once I bring it into the air-conditioned house. Considering all the work that goes into even a single raised panel, this approach seems like good insurance to me.

[Donnie Raines]

I'm with Kent on this one: Pre-stain. When you consider the expansion/contraction that takes place, if that panel moves enough to expose an area that was not coated, then you take away from all the hard work you have put into a project.

[Steve Clardy]

I do not pre-stain. Being in business, I do not have the extra time to do it that way. I spray all my stain, just spraying heavy where the rails and stiles meet the panel, ensuring it runs into the groove. Never had a problem this way.
If you have the time to pre-stain, thats probably the best way.
Steve

[John Gregory]

I do like Kent does. Prestain and the use of space balls. I have seen "tan lines" in the displays at Lowes and HD. I don't want our work to look like that.

[Chris Padilla]

Pre-stain if you are building in a dry environment and skip it if you are building in a wet environment.

Notice I didn't say whether or not it was hot or cold outside or inside. Humidity around the wood vs. the wood's moisture content is the key to how much the wood will shrink or grow.

If you are builiding in the hot dry heat of Arizona and your project will be shipped to "live" in Mississippi, don't bother pre-staining...the wood will expand most likely. If vice versa, pre-stain! :)

[Bob Johnson]

Pre-stain if you are building in a dry environment and skip it if you are building in a wet environment.

Notice I didn't say whether or not it was hot or cold outside or inside. Humidity around the wood vs. the wood's moisture content is the key to how much the wood will shrink or grow.

If you are builiding in the hot dry heat of Arizona and your project will be shipped to "live" in Mississippi, don't bother pre-staining...the wood will expand most likely. If vice versa, pre-stain! :)

Chris, your first and last paragraphs seem to contradict each other.

Bob

[Chris Padilla]

Bob, they kinda do but read between the lines. It is important to know what the MC of your wood is and the environment it plans to spend its life in.

[Donnie Raines]

I suspect that we are reading to much into to this. Considering the enviroment that the product will be placed in is important...so is the moisture content of the lumber its self. BUT, lumber is dynamic and will always have some movement....I say why risk it.

Plus Norm does it........ :p :p :D

[Tim Sproul]

Pre-stain if you are building in a dry environment and skip it if you are building in a wet environment.


I know what you're thinking Chris....but I think you've got it backwards....prestain if the humidity is high. It is most likely the panels will shrink while the frame stays the same size. That will expose the edges of the panels....so prestain if your shop/wood is very humid since you'll build the panels so that they have very little slop when fitted in the rails and stiles. If the panels dry, they'll contract and expose the edges.

If the wood is very dry....then most likely you'll build the panels as small as possible, giving adequate room for them to expand...hence you can stain in place since the panels will expand and enter into the grooves of the rails and stiles.....

[larry merlau]

I do not pre-stain. Being in business, I do not have the extra time to do it that way. I spray all my stain, just spraying heavy where the rails and stiles meet the panel, ensuring it runs into the groove. Never had a problem this way.
If you have the time to pre-stain, thats probably the best way.
Steve

hey steve what brand or kind of stain do you use on your doors? and are you using hvlp to spray? also what is you final finish? thanks for any help. have got a kitchen to do outa oak. so any tips will be helpful and have a hvlp conversion system that i am going to use for them and could use any advice you have to offer.

[Steve Clardy]

hey steve what brand or kind of stain do you use on your doors? and are you using hvlp to spray? also what is you final finish? thanks for any help. have got a kitchen to do outa oak. so any tips will be helpful and have a hvlp conversion system that i am going to use for them and could use any advice you have to offer.
Hey Larry.
I usually use minwax or valspar stains. My choices here in the sticks where I live are limited without ordering something.
Both are good stains, but have their downfalls.
Minwax leaves these little dark spots, especially on oak, that you have to keep going back over wiping off, or it will look like it has the measels.
Valspar doesn't do this, but the shelf life is very poor. Open up a can of it, use some, seal it up, and a month or so later, it has scummed over in the can. So it has to be throw away.
I use almost all lacquer on most everything, Star Brand, except bathroom stuff, vanities, linen closets. There I use poly, Minwax quick dry.
I use the low pressure top cup guns from porter cable. Run 20#'s air pressure. Nice little guns. I have one for stain, one for lacquer sealer, one for lacquer. Keeps me from having to stop and clean out guns during a cabinet job.

Steve

[larry merlau]

thanks steve
i will check out my local supplier for the needed materals then and try your suggestions.

[Jeremy Bracey]

Steve,


I use the PC guns as well but I think I have 'em cranked up to much. Seems like I am getting as much in the air as I did with my high pressure guns.

Do you set the regulator on the gun at 20psi? What about the presure in the hose, does it matter?

Thanks for the help!

[Steve Clardy]

Steve,


I use the PC guns as well but I think I have 'em cranked up to much. Seems like I am getting as much in the air as I did with my high pressure guns.

Do you set the regulator on the gun at 20psi? What about the presure in the hose, does it matter?

Thanks for the help!

Hi Jeremy. Yes, I run 20# at the regulator on the gun. You want to pull the trigger, then set the regulator. These tips are supposed to run at 10#, but I found they just kinda spit it out at that pressure. I settled on 20# as it seemed to work best for me. Anything higher and it fogs like the old 50# guns. These guns have probably saved material usage about half. Thats a lot. They won't lay down a wide pattern like the old guns, but if I'm doing a table top or something large, I dig out the old gun.
Pressure in the hose can be compressor pressure. 90-120, wherever your compressor is set at.
Steve