Installing a Harddrive

[Peter Stahl]

I have a 80GB harddrive I want to install and have several questions:

1. Do they make a 3 device cable? I'd like to keep my old drive plus I have a floppy and 2 CD ROM drives (one is a CD-RW the other a CD/DVD combo).

2. When I install the new drive I was going to load Window 2000. Though I'd unplug the old one, make the new one the Primary/Master, load Win 2000 then reconnect old drive (now the slave) and reboot.

3. Don't think I'll need to but will I be able to use the Window 98 op sys on the old drive still?

Any other tips would be appreciated.

thanks, Pete

[Jim Becker]

The IDE interfaces only support two devices per cable/interface. If you want to have five, you'll need to add additional IDE ports via a card in an available slot. But with 80gb, I wouldn't worry about your old drive...nor Win98 unless there is something that will not run on Win2K or WinXP. (Unlikely...and Win98 is a security issue these days since it's essentially unsupported as NT will be "real soon now")

Edit: I overlooked that one device was a floppy. It "doesn't count" as was pointed out in subsequent posts. (2) CDROM and (2) IDE harddrives are just peachy. If you have a writable CDROM, put it on the "other" cable from your primary harddrive if you plan on ripping CDROMs as that will speed up things...

[Kevin Arceneaux]

1. no. What you need to do is get 3 cables. You should already have a seperate one for the floppy drive.

Take care to note where EACH cable is plugged into the MB before you remove it and have the MB manual handy as you will need it to verify what connections are what and you will need to check the bios at the first startup. Some of the new MB's have the connectors marked in different colors.

On the 1st cable, put you harddrive on it and plug it into the main IDE connection on the motherboard. MAKE sure you plug the harddrive into the LAST connector, this makes it the master so when you add the second back, it would become the slave (D) drive, by plugging it into the middle connector. Some cable have their connectors marked.
On the second IDE cable, plug the CD drives into it, it does not matter which is which. This will pulg into the secondary IDE connector on the motherboard.

[Kevin Arceneaux]

Jim, I use two drives like that, the main and a smaller secondary. I use the second as a backup for the first and for my son to keep his games on..

[Don Abele]

Pete, as others have suggested you need 2 IDE cables, each with 3 connectors on them. One (the blue end) goes to your motherboard, the other two (black and gray) go to your devices (hard drives or cd drives). The gray is the middle one and goes to the "slave" device. The black is the one opposite the blue and goes to the "master" device. The color scheme is found on most, but not all. Sometimes there are little tags. Bottom line - Main drive on one end, motherboard on the other, slave drive in the middle. The floppy has a cable all it's own and only floppy drives can hook to it.

Depending on that 80GB drive, you may need a new IDE cable for it. New drives have increased transfer capability (faster speed). Old drives and ALL cd-roms transfer at ATA33 (33MB/Sec). Newer IDE drives can be as fast as ATA166. The newer drives need a better cable (it's basically the same thing only with twice as many wires in it). So if you bought a new drive, I would recommend a new cable.

Now, on connecting them. The older drive most likely will be an ATA33, the newer is probably higher (let's say ATA100 for this example). If you put them both in the computer on the same cable then the motherboard will only transfer data at 33MB/sec - it defaults to the lowest speed. New motherboards do have IDE channeling that prevents this, but unless your board was made in the last year or so, I would doubt it.

So with that, I agree with Jim - transfer whatever data you have on the smaller drive to the 80 and dump Win98. There's really no reason to keep it. If, however, you really HAVE to keep Win98 you have several options. You could keep the old drive, realizing that it will slow down the performance of your new drive - or you can partition the 80 to two drives. Win2000 allows dual booting, you just have to set it up. But again, why would you need Win98?

I would use a new ATA cable for the new drive and hook it to IDE1 as the master and use a second cable for the cd's, making the one you use the most the master - it really doesn't matter. As for ripping from your CD to your CD-RW, your fastest option would be to have them on separate channels (cables), but that slows down HD performance. It's all really about what you want.

Did that help or did I confuse things in a very long-winded way?

[Chuck Wintle]

On another tangent what is the age of your computer? Older motherboards may not recognize larger drives but fortunately of a BIOS flash can solve that problem. If not then you miight need to use EZ drive to be able to use the entire drive.

[Peter Stahl]

The IDE interfaces only support two devices per cable/interface. If you want to have five, you'll need to add additional IDE ports via a card in an available slot. But with 80gb, I wouldn't worry about your old drive...nor Win98 unless there is something that will not run on Win2K or WinXP. (Unlikely...and Win98 is a security issue these days since it's essentially unsupported as NT will be "real soon now")

Edit: I overlooked that one device was a floppy. It "doesn't count" as was pointed out in subsequent posts. (2) CDROM and (2) IDE harddrives are just peachy. If you have a writable CDROM, put it on the "other" cable from your primary harddrive if you plan on ripping CDROMs as that will speed up things...


Jim,

I shouldn't have put floppy drive because it's a LS-120 which is a IDE drive that read high density zip floppies plus it can read the regular ones. I think I'll probably do like you and others suggested and dump the 10GB drive after I get the bigger one up to speed. I also leave the LS-120 disconnected, if I find I really miss the floppy drive I'll buy a regular one as there is room for it and it's cheep.

thanks, Pete

[Peter Stahl]

Jim, I use two drives like that, the main and a smaller secondary. I use the second as a backup for the first and for my son to keep his games on..


Kevin,

Knowing now I can't get a 3 device cable I think I'll try running just the one drive after I transfer any data I have on the old one. I can always hook it back up later if I want the space. The floppy as I mentioned in Jim's reply is a IDE zip type drive and I'll probably abandon it after checking the disks to see if there is any data on them I still need.

thanks, Pete

[Peter Stahl]

Pete, as others have suggested you need 2 IDE cables, each with 3 connectors on them. One (the blue end) goes to your motherboard, the other two (black and gray) go to your devices (hard drives or cd drives). The gray is the middle one and goes to the "slave" device. The black is the one opposite the blue and goes to the "master" device. The color scheme is found on most, but not all. Sometimes there are little tags. Bottom line - Main drive on one end, motherboard on the other, slave drive in the middle. The floppy has a cable all it's own and only floppy drives can hook to it.

Depending on that 80GB drive, you may need a new IDE cable for it. New drives have increased transfer capability (faster speed). Old drives and ALL cd-roms transfer at ATA33 (33MB/Sec). Newer IDE drives can be as fast as ATA166. The newer drives need a better cable (it's basically the same thing only with twice as many wires in it). So if you bought a new drive, I would recommend a new cable.

Now, on connecting them. The older drive most likely will be an ATA33, the newer is probably higher (let's say ATA100 for this example). If you put them both in the computer on the same cable then the motherboard will only transfer data at 33MB/sec - it defaults to the lowest speed. New motherboards do have IDE channeling that prevents this, but unless your board was made in the last year or so, I would doubt it.

So with that, I agree with Jim - transfer whatever data you have on the smaller drive to the 80 and dump Win98. There's really no reason to keep it. If, however, you really HAVE to keep Win98 you have several options. You could keep the old drive, realizing that it will slow down the performance of your new drive - or you can partition the 80 to two drives. Win2000 allows dual booting, you just have to set it up. But again, why would you need Win98?

I would use a new ATA cable for the new drive and hook it to IDE1 as the master and use a second cable for the cd's, making the one you use the most the master - it really doesn't matter. As for ripping from your CD to your CD-RW, your fastest option would be to have them on separate channels (cables), but that slows down HD performance. It's all really about what you want.

Did that help or did I confuse things in a very long-winded way?


Doc,

I understand what you are saying. As I put in the other reply's my floppy is a IDE type zip drive and probaly won't get used now that I know it and the old HD could slow up the new drive. I know about the cable as far as the Master /Slave connectors but don't I still need to jumper the drive? My PC is > 3 years old, Pentium II 460 MHz. Fast enough for what I use it for just wanted more storage space, 10 GB isn't much.

thanks, Pete

[Peter Stahl]

On another tangent what is the age of your computer? Older motherboards may not recognize larger drives but fortunately of a BIOS flash can solve that problem. If not then you miight need to use EZ drive to be able to use the entire drive.

Charles,

My PC is > 3 years old and is a Pentium II 450 MHz. I know they were (Gateway) still using the same Mother board on some of thier Pentium III because that's what my brothers is and He has the same MB. How do I and what will doing a BIOS flash do?

thanks, Pete

[Chuck Wintle]

Sometimes a BIOS flash will update the motherboard so that it will recognize larger drives. Now depending on the age of the mobo, probably anything over 4 years, the mobo will not see the drive automatically and a manual config might be necessary. Install the new drive and turn on the computer and see if the mb sees it.What brand of drive is it? On my sons computer we had to format the drive first using Maxtor PowerMax for the computer to see it.

[Don Abele]

Pete, yes you do need to set the master and slave jumpers. You can also us the CS or cable select option. This will make whatever drive is plugged into the middle connector the slave. Some older systems don't recognize this - so I advise setting the master and slave jumpers. Once you remove the second hard drive (after transferring data), you can set it to stand-alone (that's where the jumper is sideways only connected to 1 pin - or just remove it altogether).

As far as flashing the MB - I would try and see if the new HD gets recognized by on bootup. Flashing is not without its risks (that just sounds so wrong :p ). If done incorrectly you could render your system useless. Flashing the BIOS is only recommended if you are actually having a problems (ie: MB doesn't recognize large drives and the manufacturer lists an update that says it corrects that). For the most up-to-date BIOS version, the flash utility, and instructions, you'll need to d/l that from the website of the MB manufacturer.

BTW, I have an AMD 450 with a 50 GB hard drive, no BIOS update was required. That's the system out in the workshop. Works great for what it does.

As far as the LS-120 goes - if you find you need a floppy drive (why? - Mac's don't even come with them) - you can buy one and a cable for about $20. If you find you need the LS-120 disks, then you can get an add-on IDE controller card which will allow you to connect more IDE devices (4 more usually) - or just buy an external model (both about the same price).

Hope we've helped.

[Peter Stahl]

Sometimes a BIOS flash will update the motherboard so that it will recognize larger drives. Now depending on the age of the mobo, probably anything over 4 years, the mobo will not see the drive automatically and a manual config might be necessary. Install the new drive and turn on the computer and see if the mb sees it.What brand of drive is it? On my sons computer we had to format the drive first using Maxtor PowerMax for the computer to see it.


Charles,

The drive is a Western Digital. I put in a CD-RW last year and it seemed to pick that up ok.

Pete

[Peter Stahl]

Pete, yes you do need to set the master and slave jumpers. You can also us the CS or cable select option. This will make whatever drive is plugged into the middle connector the slave. Some older systems don't recognize this - so I advise setting the master and slave jumpers. Once you remove the second hard drive (after transferring data), you can set it to stand-alone (that's where the jumper is sideways only connected to 1 pin - or just remove it altogether).

As far as flashing the MB - I would try and see if the new HD gets recognized by on bootup. Flashing is not without its risks (that just sounds so wrong :p ). If done incorrectly you could render your system useless. Flashing the BIOS is only recommended if you are actually having a problems (ie: MB doesn't recognize large drives and the manufacturer lists an update that says it corrects that). For the most up-to-date BIOS version, the flash utility, and instructions, you'll need to d/l that from the website of the MB manufacturer.

BTW, I have an AMD 450 with a 50 GB hard drive, no BIOS update was required. That's the system out in the workshop. Works great for what it does.

As far as the LS-120 goes - if you find you need a floppy drive (why? - Mac's don't even come with them) - you can buy one and a cable for about $20. If you find you need the LS-120 disks, then you can get an add-on IDE controller card which will allow you to connect more IDE devices (4 more usually) - or just buy an external model (both about the same price).

Hope we've helped.

Doc,

Thanks again. I was thinking the same with the floppy. I think PC's will be like that in another year or so where the floppy will be a option. Can I add USB2 ports to a older PC? I only have 2 USB ports.


thanks again, Pete

[Jim Becker]

I think PC's will be like that in another year or so where the floppy will be a option.
Floppy's have been optional for some time now and aren't even optional on some machines anymore. My new ThinkPad T41 (work machine) shipped without it and my personal machine (Dell 4600) only has one because I happened to pull one out of another machine...


Can I add USB2 ports to a older PC? I only have 2 USB ports.
Yes you can provided you have a PCI slot available. They are relatively inexpensive for a USB 2.0 card that supports four or more connections. This is a much better arrangement than using a "hub", too...more reliable and compatible.

[Don Abele]

Pete, as Jim said, adding USB 2.0 is easy so long as you have a free PCI slot on your motherboard. I have an OrangeMicro brand which added 4 USB 2.0 ports on my old system - works like a charm, was cheap, and quick/easy to install.

Jim - I have about 250 brand new floppy disks that have been collecting dust for a VERY long time. Eventually I'll chuck them, can't remember the last time I used one. I use a lot of bootable CD's now. And to show how long I've been holding on to stuff, I still have some 5 1/4 inch floppies and even a couple of ancient 8 inch ones :eek: and the drives for them!!! :D

[Peter Stahl]

Pete, as Jim said, adding USB 2.0 is easy so long as you have a free PCI slot on your motherboard. I have an OrangeMicro brand which added 4 USB 2.0 ports on my old system - works like a charm, was cheap, and quick/easy to install.

Jim - I have about 250 brand new floppy disks that have been collecting dust for a VERY long time. Eventually I'll chuck them, can't remember the last time I used one. I use a lot of bootable CD's now. And to show how long I've been holding on to stuff, I still have some 5 1/4 inch floppies and even a couple of ancient 8 inch ones :eek: and the drives for them!!! :D


Doc & Jim,

Thanks again for reply's. I do have a couple empty slots. Can I plug a USB item into a USB 2.0 port? I wanted more USB ports plus the option for a USB 2.0 if needed.

Doc, I haven't see a 8" floppy for years and I work in a lab, no equipment that old still around. Still might be able to find a old analytical instrument with a 5-1/4 in it.

Pete

[Brian Austin]

I'm relatively lucky at the office. I have a client management system that will 'catch' a bootup on the network using a technology called PXE (pixie). If the system is recognized by the management server, it's allowed to boot up normally. If not, the system offers (via a menu) to image the workstation with any number of default 'snapshots' of hard drives that I've created. Even not quite the same systems do great by utilizing the plug-n-play in XP and recovering enough to get on the network.

On another note, I actually booted off one of the USB drives the other day. I've been using one for years to move files back and forth via 'sneakernet'. Holds more, faster and less prone to damage. The newer Dell workstations and laptops have a 'removable device' boot option. I set up the USB drive as a bootable floppy image, tried it and it worked. Between that and the management system, I don't need floppies or CDs any longer! Woohoo!

[Don Abele]

Pete, USB 2.0 is backwards compatible with USB 1.1 - if you plug a 1.1 into a 2.0 it will work, but at the 1.1 speed. Howqever, if you plug a 2.0 into a 1.1 card it may or may not work at all, but if it does, it will only work at 1.1 speeds.

1.1 = 12 Mbps
2.0 = 480 Mbps

[Kevin Arceneaux]

My old computer was a Gateway and I had one hell of a time trying to update the bios. It liked to drive me nuts. That was one of the reason's I built my new one. That and the AGP port was only 2x and it was strangling my 9700Pro video card. You have to be carefull trying to drop a new MB into a Gateway and Dell, some of the power connectors on Dell's are unique and may or may not plug into a new MB. Found this out the hard way helping a cousin upgrading hers. At least it wasn't a HP or Compaq.

[Peter Stahl]

I'm relatively lucky at the office. I have a client management system that will 'catch' a bootup on the network using a technology called PXE (pixie). If the system is recognized by the management server, it's allowed to boot up normally. If not, the system offers (via a menu) to image the workstation with any number of default 'snapshots' of hard drives that I've created. Even not quite the same systems do great by utilizing the plug-n-play in XP and recovering enough to get on the network.

On another note, I actually booted off one of the USB drives the other day. I've been using one for years to move files back and forth via 'sneakernet'. Holds more, faster and less prone to damage. The newer Dell workstations and laptops have a 'removable device' boot option. I set up the USB drive as a bootable floppy image, tried it and it worked. Between that and the management system, I don't need floppies or CDs any longer! Woohoo!

Brian,

Thanks for the reply. Don't think I go this route with this PC, just trying to get it upgraded to make it last a little longer. MY son may be moving out (3rd time!) and will probaly give it to him and buy a new PC.

Pete

[Peter Stahl]

Pete, USB 2.0 is backwards compatible with USB 1.1 - if you plug a 1.1 into a 2.0 it will work, but at the 1.1 speed. Howqever, if you plug a 2.0 into a 1.1 card it may or may not work at all, but if it does, it will only work at 1.1 speeds.

1.1 = 12 Mbps
2.0 = 480 Mbps

Doc,

Thanks again. Thought they would be, just glad they didn't come out with a different size cable for it. I found out the PCI multi port USB 2.0 cards are pretty cheap. Will probaly get one.

Pete

[Peter Stahl]

My old computer was a Gateway and I had one hell of a time trying to update the bios. It liked to drive me nuts. That was one of the reason's I built my new one. That and the AGP port was only 2x and it was strangling my 9700Pro video card. You have to be carefull trying to drop a new MB into a Gateway and Dell, some of the power connectors on Dell's are unique and may or may not plug into a new MB. Found this out the hard way helping a cousin upgrading hers. At least it wasn't a HP or Compaq.


Kevin,

Won't be adding a new MB, just adding a HD. Trying to make this as easy as possible but will take a while reloading the software. I have all the old CD's but my Norton AntiVirus is a renewal, not sure what I'll do there. Setting up my Comcast cable internet stuff may be a pain too.

thanks for the reply, Pete

[Kevin Arceneaux]

I have Cox cable and it was actually one of the easiest things I have ever hooked up. I went to the local place and picked up a modem and it only took a few minutes to get it up and running. Cox actually had a very easy to follow step by step instructions.

[Michael Perata]

Setting up my Comcast cable internet stuff may be a pain too.



Should be painless. Make sure the cable modem you are getting has a hardware firewall.

[Peter Stahl]

Should be painless. Make sure the cable modem you are getting has a hardware firewall.

I already have Comcast Internet, but it was a pain the first time. Had to have the service guy do it, was a problem in the line itself originally. That's why I'm not sure how it will go. I don't think mine has a firwall but have ZoneAlarm running.

thanks, Pete

[Peter Stahl]

Finally got time to install the new harddrive. Everything went smoothly so far, got my antivirus, firewall and comcast internet installed plus a couple others. Let the old drive disconnected for now. Thanks for all the replies, they were a big help.

Pete