frustrating client...

[Jeremy Butler]

So I was working with a "friend" that was starting his bussiness as well and needed to mark some canisters. I was working with him on prices because he said he would be sending me orders of a couple hundred at a time. The first canisters came and they weren't top quality metal so the mark wasn't the best quality, eventually I commented that he might want to just look at paint to get the quality he liked to show to his customers. After that he pretty much dissappeared until they started using another kind of canister so he and another couple co-workers came by so they could see what they looked like engraved. They were very impressed and the other co-workers asked questions about the laser. Later in the conversation the other kid started making comments about why don't they just invest in one and they kinda just laughed it off. After a few days they wanted me to do 6 more of the new canisters so I said sure. Well yesterday I got an interesting text from him saying they borrowed a laser like mine and were wondering if I could stop by to see if it was all set-up etc. then today they wanted to know when they could get the other canisters as well. So here's my thing, what should I tell them, should I even bother doing the other canisters? what are your oppinions

[Mike Null]

I would make a serious attempt at being as gentlemanly as possible while explaining the situation to them.

[Angus Hines]

It dosn't sound like any of it's worth the hassle....Borrowed a 60watt Universal ??? Who would lend a machine that big.....the lender should be the one setting it up.....If they really did borrow one tel them they can now do the 6 too. and see what the responce is....Im thinking it's just a ploy to beat up your pricing.
When they realize that ain't gonna work then they really do need you or to buy a machine.

IF it smells like fish it probably is fish !

[Dan Hintz]

If they were asking him to stop by and determine if their machine was set up properly, then they most likely do have a machine of their own... where they got it from is anyone's guess.

They've obviously made their choice, so I would politely hand them back all of their canisters and tell them you'd be happy to continue to work with them should they decide to get rid of their laser. And then make sure you only do bulk runs from there onwards, no singles. Unless they're lucky (such as finding this site), they're going to have a long haul ahead of them to get the settings right... unless, of course, you showed them exactly how you did it, then they would have a leg up.

The fact you call them "kids" is a tell-tale sign for me... they're young, inexperienced, but think they can quickly work up products (and profit) with a multi-$10k machine. Best to take a few safe steps back and let them flop around for a while.

[Dee Gallo]

Jeremy,

That doesn't sound like a "friend" at all. More like someone looking for something for nothing. To reneg on a contracted job is bad enough, but to ask you to help him too, it is a bit much. And it's just bad manners to manipulate and try to take advantage of a "friendship".

I would not do his job (ever) and tell him it is not in your best interest to set him up, since that's not your area of expertise. If anything goes wrong, guess who he will ask to fix it? Or blame for his problems?

Lastly, this is another example of why you don't generally want people to know very much about how you do their work. Keep customers out of your work area. They don't see the amount of time, effort and skill you put into a job. To unknowing eyes, it looks easy...just push go and it's done! When people ask me how long it took me to do their job, I answer with "about 50 years of education, practice and experience".

another 2 cents from me.. this place is getting expensive!

cheers, dee

[james mcgrew]

people walk into my shop periodically and have biiiiigggg idea's, after some smozzzzing and cajoling the question comes "do this for me cheap and i'll bring you a bunch more" to which my standard answer is " i got a better idea lets pay full price for this one and i'll give you a discount for the larger order!!! most i never see again and eventually hear the project went no where, but the ones who understand my methods and i have made us a good buck or two!!!

send him a bill for what you have in it!! he will be back as he will not do what it takes to produce it correctly, his focus is screw@#*%

jim

[Jeremy Butler]

Well their not "kids" their my age which is only 26 I'm just used to that kind of language, I think I just don't want to grow up :) but the one I know is definately in life for the money and will cut corners to get ahead. My thinking is that he wants a product to show his potential clients to start getting things lined up for him while they learn how to use it. Pretty much to cut down on the learning curve/ start selling time.

[james mcgrew]

set those other canisters on the wall of lessons and stare at them once in a while,,they are worth much more that way!!

jim

[George Brown]

"about 50 years of education, practice and experience".


You don't look 50!

[Jeremy Butler]

If I wasn't such an honest person or wouldn't feel bad to do something I almost thought about setting it up wrong, with the thing of "if something isn't right don't blame me, I'm not an expert on how to set-up" with of course a little contract saying nothing can come back on me, but I can't look at myself in the mirror if I do something dishonest. darn it lol :)

[Mike Mackenzie]

Jeremy,

If he got a laser system from someone else then they should be responsible to set-it up. I would look at it this way you are in a lose lose position. Why don't you tell them that you can set-it up for a fee add in all of the work you have performed in the past for him and then wash your hands of the situation.

It sounds already like if his project works he will get his own system anyway, so this might be your opportunity to collect for your design and set-up work and then dump it in his lap.

Be sure to tell them that you will take no responsibility for the actions of that system.

[Rodne Gold]

My take ...I wouldnt be polite , I would have the attitude to them of "if your soul was on fire ..I wouldn't even urinate down your throat".
I wouldnt do the 6 cannisters and I wouldnt do any work for em in the future unless you like being a guinea pig and a fall guy.

[Dee Gallo]

Pretty much to cut down on the learning curve/ start selling time.

I don't know about you, but nobody can learn "for" me. I can see a demo, I can read instructions, I can talk to an expert... but to really learn something I find I need to do it myself, sometimes several times. To me, this quote shows he is looking for the easy way and will freak out when the you-know-what hits the laser, as it inevitably will. Don't get any on you!

And George, you lovely sly dog - thanks for the compliment, I'm 58!

cheers, dee

[Dave Johnson29]

I'm not an expert on how to set-up


You have your answer there Jeremy. Take it from one who has run his own businesses for 40+ years.

You need to hand back the unmarked canisters, say you would not dare touch another laser as you have no idea if it was installed correctly, damaged in transit or worse, not even working right when it left the original owner's place.

The sentence springing to mind here is "run do not walk!"

I would not bother about charging for work done, Write that off as "school fees" but I would **never** do work for those guys again.

I would be polite and say, "sorry I am really booked solid for the next 3 weeks and more coming in all the time."
"In fairness to my current customers I cannot take on more work at this time."

They have crossed the fair play line, do not be a fool and move the line further in their favor.

2-cents worth now turned OFF! :)

[Jeremy Butler]

thanks for all of the great comments, I think I really like the last comment. Definately going to write that down in my phrases to remember... "I'm booked solid for the next 3 weeks with steady incoming work"... that's up there with ..."do you want a cheap job or a good quality job"... :) thats why this place is so great, thanks everyone.

[Steve Chalmers]

Jeremy,

I had a very similar situation happen to me with a large sign company that I was doing a lot of work for. All of a sudden the work slowed to almost a halt, and then they called and asked if I could come over and "give them the basics" on how to do the jobs that I had been doing for them.

I very calmly told them what my instructional rate was, and that it would require a minimum of 4 weeks training. And that it would be payable in advance.

It took them about a month, but the owner finally called and asked what we could work out. I told them there really was nothing to work out. . .I knew his people, and it would require a minimum of 4 weeks training to get them up to speed. And the training fee was payable in advance.

My wife and I took a wonderful vacation to Paris this past year thanks to the training fees.

And by the way, their machine sits virtually unused because the people that I trained have since left and no one had the brains to write anything down. I'm back doing a fair amount of work for them again.

Steve

[David Fairfield]

"The customer is always right" routine something you gotta do when you're working for "da man." One of the great luxuries of being in business for yourself is telling #$&*head customers to get lost. In this case, it sounds like you should enjoy that luxury. :)

Dave

[Mark Winlund]

Jeremy,

I had a very similar situation happen to me with a large sign company that I was doing a lot of work for. All of a sudden the work slowed to almost a halt, and then they called and asked if I could come over and "give them the basics" on how to do the jobs that I had been doing for them.

I very calmly told them what my instructional rate was, and that it would require a minimum of 4 weeks training. And that it would be payable in advance.

It took them about a month, but the owner finally called and asked what we could work out. I told them there really was nothing to work out. . .I knew his people, and it would require a minimum of 4 weeks training to get them up to speed. And the training fee was payable in advance.

My wife and I took a wonderful vacation to Paris this past year thanks to the training fees.

And by the way, their machine sits virtually unused because the people that I trained have since left and no one had the brains to write anything down. I'm back doing a fair amount of work for them again.

Steve

GREAT story! An object lesson for everyone. Very few people realize the training and experience required to master this type of business. The attitude is "you just push a button and the part comes out of a slot....." Sort of like a candy machine!

Mark

[Anthony Scira]

GREAT story! An object lesson for everyone. Very few people realize the training and experience required to master this type of business. The attitude is "you just push a button and the part comes out of a slot....." Sort of like a candy machine!

Mark

I think that is the way some of the laser ad's look ! :)

[Robert Alexander]

Jeremy, some people want something for free. But you invested your time and money into a laser business. Be honest with your friend???, and tell him he needs to learn how to operate his laser with no help from you, because now he is competing with you for business.
Also I noticed you are from Ogden. I live out in Farr West about 10 miles from you.

[Doug Griffith]

I would be polite and say, "sorry I am really booked solid for the next 3 weeks and more coming in all the time."
"In fairness to my current customers I cannot take on more work at this time." :)

I would add to this: "Too bad none of it is laser work. There just aren't any jobs out there for it".

Make them feel good about their new borrowed toy.

Doug