What tool for roughing out end grain

[Scott Hackler]

Hello all,

I have a 3/4 Sorby roughing gouge and while shopping for more toolss, I notices a disclaimer on the listing for this gouge that stated "not designed for roughing out of end grain bowls". Hmmmm thats what I have been using and it seems to work pretty good (granted I have only turned green logs and I have been hexagoning them prior to chucking up) So what do you all use?

I did noticed that they make a 1 1/4 roughing gouge.

Thanks for your input.

Scott

[Tom Lewis]

Use a bowl gouge.

[Bob Vallaster]

Ditto. Bowl gouge.
The roughing gouge is for spindle work. The 3/4" will get you into trouble. The 1 1/4" will get you into bigger trouble.
The problem has to do with the tang at one end of the tool (small cross section) and with the wide mouth (bigger bite) at the other.
When (not 'if') you get a bad catch on end grain, the load will fracture the tool where the tang enters the tool handle. If that and a change of underwear are all you suffer, so much the better. A flying bowl blank or projectile gouge are also possible...and there's no telling what they'll hit before coming to rest.

BobV

[Ryan Baker]

Bob is right. Using a spindle roughing gouge on end grain work is dangerous. The shape and grind tend to pull the edge into the end grain turning catches into huge catches. The result will be parts of the blank flying off as well as parts of the gouge after the tang has snapped off. Getting the bigger roughing gouge just makes an even bigger catch.

You should be using a bowl gouge on end grain work. It's MUCH easier anyway. Don't try to rough round an end grain blank on the circumfrence like a spindle blank. That just beats you up. Make cuts from the side with the bowl gouge, from the bottom of the bowl to the top of the bowl (i.e. start shaping the outside of the bowl). The blank will round itself very quickly and much more smoothly/easily than if you try to do it like a spindle blank.

[Bill Bulloch]

I, be new to turning, also used a Roughing Gouge for trueing up bowl blanks. It seemed to work okay, for-a-while. The last time I use it, (and the last time I'll ever use it), the catch was so violent that the force down broke my tool rest in half. After I cleaned my britches, I ordered me a new tool rest and posted what happen on the Creek. I was told to use a bowl gouge. Since then, I have watched a DVD by Jimmy Clewes and he for roughing out a bowl gouge use the very (1/8 inch) tip of the bowl gouge held on a 45 degree angle.

[Greg Haugen]

"not designed for roughing out of end grain bowls" is a good rule but shouldn't end there, "not designed for roughing out any style of bowl" would be a better rule. As previously stated, it's the "tang". Roughing gouges, which should be called "Spindle Roughing Gouges", should only be used on spindle work.

I agree with everyone else, use a bowl gouge for roughing and finishing-unless you want to use a scraper. Different size gouges with different grinds are the best option for almost any job on a bowl.


As far as SRG, I have a 1 1/4" and absolutely love it. There's a lot more heft to it than a 3/4" SRG. There's also a 1 3/4" that is common, but I'm happy with my 1 1/4" Hamlet/Packard SRG.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Bowl gouge for bowls and spindle roughing gouge for spindles. Ask my neighbor if a roughing gouge is good for bowls. After a hand full of stitches from the broken gouge and broken tool rest he got it.

[Jeff Nicol]

Scott, I know I have said this before but I will say it again. I have the perfect tool for turning into endgrain. It works every time and will do anything you ask it to! I have been selling the bits all over the world and have had many happy customers! I am tooting my own horn now and it feels good!!! The sound is magnificant! I have posted pics on my gallery page and if you need more info there are videos at my website on youtube. Check it out and see what you think!

Jeff

[Burt Alcantara]

I've made a number of end grain bowls using my regular gouges. Did not run into a particular problems. No special grind is needed either. Just a good sharp edge. Depending on the wood, you may get a "hairy" finish. A newly edged scraper will do the trick.

Burt

[Scott Hackler]

You should be using a bowl gouge on end grain work. It's MUCH easier anyway. Don't try to rough round an end grain blank on the circumfrence like a spindle blank. That just beats you up. Make cuts from the side with the bowl gouge, from the bottom of the bowl to the top of the bowl (i.e. start shaping the outside of the bowl). The blank will round itself very quickly and much more smoothly/easily than if you try to do it like a spindle blank.

So am I to understand that if I screw a face plate to the future top of the bowl (like I have been doing) and turn the bottom of the bowl for the dovetail insert of the chuck and then I should start rounding from the bottom up to the rim? Instead of going at it from the side of the bowl first? I have been roughing from the side and then tuning my tang for the chuck... from the side and it beats the heck out of me.

[Scott Hackler]

Thanks to all who responded. I wont be using the 3/4" roughing gouge for this anymore. My new 1/2" bowl gouge is very heavy so it should work good.

[John Shuk]

I have a Oneway Termite tool and that is the tool for the job for me.

[Pat Keefe]

Oland tools are good for roughing end grain bowls. I have 2 made for me by one of the boys over here, (in Australia). One is a 1/2" HSS square/Round cutting profiles for quick roughing and a 1/4" HSS Square/Half Round profiles for finer work and goblet bowls. I am awaiting the middle size, 3/8", which I have a 14% Cobalt bit ready for service.

Google Oland Tools to get some info on these and maybe someone on this board makes them in the States for sale to members . . . you never know your luck ;)

[Don Eddard]

I've made a number of end grain bowls using my regular gouges. Did not run into a particular problems...

I'm assuming your regular gouges are bowl gouges. If you're using spindle gouges, that's like saying "I drive drunk all the time, and haven't had any problems." ;)


I have a Oneway Termite tool and that is the tool for the job for me.

He's talking about roughing it out. The termite's not well suited for making a blank round. It's fine in end grain once you've got it round, but I think the OP is looking for something to get to that point.

[Cody Colston]

So am I to understand that if I screw a face plate to the future top of the bowl (like I have been doing) and turn the bottom of the bowl for the dovetail insert of the chuck and then I should start rounding from the bottom up to the rim? Instead of going at it from the side of the bowl first? I have been roughing from the side and then tuning my tang for the chuck... from the side and it beats the heck out of me.

If you start from the bottom and work to the rim of the bowl it will be a lot easier on your arms and your tools. Place the gouge with the handle app. 45 degrees down from horizontal, with the butt end pulled 45 degrees towards your body and with the flute rolled 45 degrees towards the direction of the cut...ie, a 45-45-45 pull cut. You will like the results.

[Wally Dickerman]

Scott, you've asked a question about end grain pieces. I have a question for you. My definition for an end grain piece is when the grain runs parallel to the bed of the lathe. When the grain runs at 90 degrees to the bed I call if face grain or side grain. When I turn a deep hollow form it's always end grain.

So which way does the grain run in your piece? The reason I ask is that for best results, less effort, smoother cuts, with very little endgrain tearout, you should be cutting with the grain. That means that if it's end grain by my definition you should be cutting from large dia. to small. If it's face grain you should be cutting from small dia. to large.

Wally

[Reed Gray]

For end grain pieces, I prefer scrapers to gouges. A gouge will get the job done, but any scraper works fine. The Oland tool is a scraper, any of the hollowing tools will work as will hook and ring tools. Have the scraper flat for roughing cuts, and at a 45 degree angle for finish cuts. For an end grain bowl, on the outside, start at the rim of the bowl, and cut towards the bottom. For the inside, start in the center, and pull up towards the rim. This is backwards to flat grain bowls, but it works because of the direction the grain runs.
robo hippy

[Scott Hackler]

I guess I dont know the terminology quite yet. I rip a log in half lengthwise and mount it up so that the end of the logs swing past the sides of the lathe (and me). When done the pith is on the sides of my bowls. Is that side grain of end grain? Either term.. it has been a workout to roung them out and no problem after the basic shape is produced.

I do see the logic with cutting with the grain, so I will try to rough out from the bottom moving towards the rim. Sounds logical.

[Tony Kahn]

Scott im my expererience, albeit only a years worth, that is face grain turning, end grain turning is if you were to put an unsplit log on the lathe with the cut ends at each end of the lathe and the pith running parallel to the bed. With that being said the way you are turning then you have found the best advice, start from the bottom and work towards the rim. a good example can be found on youtube that jet tools has on their. Search for jettoolsusa, and watch their bowl turning series. That video is actually for a natural edge bowl but same practices.

[Jake Helmboldt]

I guess I dont know the terminology quite yet. I rip a log in half lengthwise and mount it up so that the end of the logs swing past the sides of the lathe (and me). When done the pith is on the sides of my bowls. Is that side grain of end grain? Either term.. it has been a workout to roung them out and no problem after the basic shape is produced.

I do see the logic with cutting with the grain, so I will try to rough out from the bottom moving towards the rim. Sounds logical.

End grain is the grain at the end of a log. I.e. look at the end of a log and you are looking end grain. As Tony said, turning a bowl as you are is face turning. However because of the orientation of the grain you are cutting end grain twice with every rotation, so there is a combo.

As for gouges there are three gouges now being discussed here; roughing gouge, better referred to as a SPINDLE roughing gouge, a spindle gouge (shallow flute), and a bown gouge (deep flute). Now for those that say using a spindle gouge is like driving drunk, then I guess Richard Raffan is irresponsible and doesn't know what he is doing. You can use a shallow flute "spindle gouge" for roughing and turning the exterior of a bowl. I do it all the time as Raffan shows in his books and videos. What you can't do is use it with the flute up; it will catch and roll every time. But you can use the wing for shearing cuts and you can also use it with flute facing away (from the wood) at about a 45 and use it for shaping, riding the bevel. Again, Raffan's books and videos demonstrate how to do this safely and properly. I suggest taking a look.