Spindle shaper?

[Dave Cav]

I am wondering if I should get a spindle shaper, and am curious as to how many of you use one in your shop. I know they are a common fixture in most pro shops, but I wonder how many amateurs find them useful as well. I have a big old Porter-Cable 1/2" router table setup in the right side extension of my table saw, but I find I rarely use it; in fact, despite the fact that I have four or five routers, I hardly ever use any of them. I have zero experience with a shaper, but I do know they are generally more capable (and more dangerous) than a router table, and if I got one I suspect I would find a number of uses for it.

If the recommendation is to go with a shaper, what would be the suggested size/HP? Used or new?

thanks
Dave

[Joe Jensen]

I have used a shaper since I started WW over 30 years ago. Heck, back then 3HP routers didn't exist :)

I think it depends on what you want to build. I like to build things with rail and style doors so I use a shaper a lot for that. It can be done with a router, but I find a shaper does a much more consistent job for me. I used a shaper for 25 years without a feeder, and after getting a feeder 5 years ago and it's soo much nicer to run, and the quality of the cut is amazing. Think zero sanding of profiles, that's how good it is.

I use the shaper for the cabinet set cutters, panel raising, door edge profiles, and then I have a bunch of cutters that I rarely use like glue edge cutters and lock miters.

If I shopped hard on CL, I think I'd end up spending $1500 or so on a good shaper with feeder. Cutters are expensive too. But as they say, you have to pay to play.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I'll agree with Joe. Shapers are quite a machine. Especially with a feeder, which ought to be required. There have been a number of good shaper use threads here in the last few months, good info in them.

Broadly speaking, get plenty of power, I'd go with an 1 1/4" spindle, and get a good feeder. There are a pile of interesting options out there too, especially in the Euro brands.

[Rick Fisher]

I have a 3hp shaper. Its probably the most common size. Mine only takes up to a 3/4" bore cutter.

I use it plenty. I have a 1hp feeder on it and would not own a shaper without a feeder.

Buying a shaper is like buying a car.. The cost is just getting started.. The cutters are expensive..

I have 11 or 12 cutters now and love the setup. It offers precision and power unavailable in a router. I must admit however that there is always a reason to buy another $100 cutter. :)

[Michael Boyle]

Dave,

I am a amateur woodworker and I purchased a used shaper about a year ago. I really love the tool, it is especially nice with large profile cutters that would require a slower speed on a router. The extra mass of the tool adds to its stability and really helps it cut smooth profiles. It also opens up a whole world of large profile choices that you may find difficult to find for a router. The one I own does require 220 (1 phase) power. I know a number of home shops only have 110 which would really limit the purchase decision to a low power unit that may not be much better than a nice router table setup. I also want to add my voice that a power feeder is a necessary accessory for shaper, it really should be considered as part of the purchase.

[Peter Quinn]

I guess I'm out of the amateur category as I do this for a living now, so I can only speak as a wood worker who uses and relies on shapers. As Joe said, for rail and style doors, with cope and stick cutters, the shaper is king. Once you have made doors with a shaper its hard to want to go back to using the router table for that. And the first time I raised panels on a shaper was the last time I raised a panel with a router! For moldings, large or small, there is no comparison. The shaper wins hands down. The shaper has become for me a vital tool in my small home shop. At work the shaper is a forgone conclusion; there are seven of them in use all the time, and often we use them for things that might actually be easier done with a router!

Beyond doors, panels and moldings the shaper has lots of uses. It is a great tool for accurate rabbits and dados, it can flush trim curves to patterns well beyond the capacity of a router, it can create half laps and bridle joints with the proper tooling. It does these things quicker and cleaner than the router in most cases too.

I'd say 3HP 220 with a 3/4" spindle is the minimum to put you in the serious serious shaper category. Bigger is better, and for some large work bigger is really requisite, but a machine this size is highly capable and versatile at a price that may fit the home shop budget and needs. Expect to pay $2000 for a cheap import or decent used unit with a power feed (which I don't see as optional for quality and safety). Expect to pay double that for a basic selection of tooling to take advantage of the tools capability. You can spend MUCH more but not much less.

So do you need one? Should you get one? Depends on what you want to do really. If you do a lot of rabbit and dado work in solid stock on a TS now, a shaper is both safer and more accurate IMO at these tasks. If you make moldings for furniture or your home, a shaper will serve you well. If you make a lot of doors, a shaper is great. If you make only a few it may be hard to justify the cost. I'd say the best way to understand what a shaper can do is to find somebody that has one and watch it in action. Its also best to learn its use from a qualified operator and not to wing it or home school on that tool! I can also imagine an excellent wood working shop that produces fine things and NEVER uses a shaper. Depends on your needs, work and methods.

The one thing I would say is do not go crazy trying to make "The ultimate router table" spending nearly as much as a shaper, only to wind up with the crappiest 'almost shaper' on record. I see this as a folly.

[Jeff Willard]

I have a big old Porter-Cable 1/2" router table setup in the right side extension of my table saw, but I find I rarely use it;


That may be the answer to your own question. I'm in much the same boat-a number of routers, one large one-table mounted. And they don't receive much use. I do use the table-mounted one enough to justify having it, but I think it'll be a looong time before I wear it out. At one time I had a small Jet shaper, and it collected more dust than it created. I just couldn't justify keeping it around, so it was sold.

Think about the future. If a large number of rail and stile doors and raised panels are on the horizon, or you plan on thousands of linear feet of molding, then a shaper might be a wise choice. If not, the router makes a passable light duty shaper, if used within it's limitations.

[Joe Jensen]

The one thing I would say is do not go crazy trying to make "The ultimate router table" spending nearly as much as a shaper, only to wind up with the crappiest 'almost shaper' on record. I see this as a folly.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/1.jpg

[Tony Bilello]

...................
Beyond doors, panels and moldings the shaper has lots of uses. It is a great tool for accurate rabbits and dados, it can flush trim curves to patterns well beyond the capacity of a router, it can create half laps and bridle joints with the proper tooling. It does these things quicker and cleaner than the router in most cases too.......................
If you do a lot of rabbit and dado work in solid stock on a TS now, a shaper is both safer and more accurate IMO at these tasks. If you make moldings for furniture or your home, a shaper will serve you well. If you make a lot of doors, a shaper is great. .......I can also imagine an excellent wood working shop that produces fine things and NEVER uses a shaper. Depends on your needs, work and methods.

The one thing I would say is do not go crazy trying to make "The ultimate router table" spending nearly as much as a shaper, only to wind up with the crappiest 'almost shaper' on record.


I agree with Peter on most points except for size requirements. 2HP should be fine for a home shop. Router tables basically mimic shapers. As for which is more dangerous, that is up for debate. The shaper with its greater power in itself is very dangerous. On the other hand, pushing a router table to its limits also creates dangerous situations because they look more innocent. Another point to consider is that a 1 1/2HP Shaper has much more power than a 1 1/2 HP router.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

That may be the answer to your own question. I'm in much the same boat-a number of routers, one large one-table mounted. And they don't receive much use. I do use the table-mounted one enough to justify having it, but I think it'll be a looong time before I wear it out. At one time I had a small Jet shaper, and it collected more dust than it created. I just couldn't justify keeping it around, so it was sold.

Think about the future. If a large number of rail and stile doors and raised panels are on the horizon, or you plan on thousands of linear feet of molding, then a shaper might be a wise choice. If not, the router makes a passable light duty shaper, if used within it's limitations.

Jeff, I had a router table rigged up on the outfeed of my last tablesaw. I used it for a few raised panel doors, rabbets, and profiling. I hated using the danged thing because after a cut, you still had to sand, it was not easy to set, and all the bigger cuts took multiple passes. As a result, I didn't use it very often. When I got my new combo though, which comes with a feeder, a great fence, and 6.5hp, everything changed. I actually use it on just about every project. The comparison of a router tables use to a good shaper my not work I'm thinking.

It's great to run molding, in one pass, and to know that it is ready to go off the shaper with no sanding. The shaper and feeder also produce 100% accurate copies of the last pass, every time, where a router table can flex, or chatter, or bog down. I also like that the shaper is quieter than the dust collector. Summary, I personally use a shaper far more than I ever used my previous router table.

[Rick Fisher]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/1.jpg


Its acceptable to try to build an ultimate router table if you already have a shaper.. :)

[Jeff Willard]

I don't deny the utility of a shaper. My point is that if Dave has no plans for running molding, or doing a quantity of cope and stick work, it may be overkill. If it's only use would be the occasional rebate, the $$$ and space might be more efficiently used in another manner. Sort of like me turning pens on my Conover:eek:. Now, if he has plans for such work later, or a shaper would present opportunities that were-up until now-difficult or impossible, I think it would be a great investment.

[Peter Quinn]

Its acceptable to try to build an ultimate router table if you already have a shaper.. :)

I would agree. In fact I think it would be acceptable to build the ultimate router table even if you don't have a shaper. Or even just for the heck of it as a sort of hobby because it pleases you. There has been some pretty ingenious engineering in the router table world, really brilliant precision setups, by wood workers with a passion for that method of work. They can do things no shaper can. I love my own router table and would not part with it. But if you build one of those "the ultimate router table" set ups that is trying to be a shaper instead of a really useful router, and spend more doing it than a good entry level shaper...it becomes a folly. Its like putting a dump bed on a pick up when you really needed a dump truck.

[Dave Cav]

Some excellent information here; thanks for all the input. I don't do a lot of cabinet work or raised panels, at least not right now. Mostly I do furniture and utility projects. When I do make cabinets with doors, they are usually stub tennon or half laps; I have never done any "real" cope and stick doors. I have managed to do some fairly decent stuff over the years without a shaper, and I think, given the information you folks gave me, and my style of woodworking, having a shaper isn't going to be my highest priority.

I agree that bigger is probably always better (which is why I am keeping my eyes open for a 12" table saw), so a 3 to 5 HP jointer would probably be what I would eventually look for. Right now, though, unless an unbeatable deal shows up, I will probably just make do with my router table.