Too good to be true? Cheap combo planer / jointer

[Dan Karachio]

Hello All,

I saw what I think are new Jet combo planer / jointer on Woodcraft's site: http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=842696&FamilyID=63972

The price is so cheap, I really couldn't believe it ($400 for the 10").

A while back I saw the Hitachi combo and thought it was super cool, but at nearly $2000 I understood why it was so cool. Now I see this thing for so much less and it seems *too* low. Funny how the mind works.

For a small hobby home shop guy this is a tough spot - what jointer or planer to get. I am starting to think that for me the best thing is a good quality lunch box planer and a nice Lie Nielsen plane and/or my router table for jointing edges. Still, how do I flatten the first side of a board without a jointer?

Dan

[Mike Henderson]

Still, how do I flatten the first side of a board without a jointer?

Dan
I have a very small shop and have the same problem you do - how to joint a board? I do it by hand. It's a skill you have to learn but it's not too difficult and only requires a small number of hand planes. The work is physical but I'm retired (meaning old) and can do it without too much fatigue.

My problem with a combination machine is the time it takes to convert the machine - it's always in the wrong configuration.

Mike

[John Jendro]

I read some of the reviews on Amazon. It received 4 stars or better. Some of the issues were, bed length, only 40 inches. Dust collection, only a 2 inch port. I think for a 10 inch jointer it seems to have an pretty small motor. If those issues don't bother you it seems like a good deal.

John

[Dan Forman]

The price probably is accurate. Note, however, this is a very stripped down version of a combo machine. The tables are very short, and the out feed table is sheet metal, not cast iron. Only two blades instead of three or four, and a very light duty stand. they list the motor as "13 amp", no HP figure. That's about what a good router has. Net weight is only 73 pounds. By comparison, my Mini Max 14 J/P weighs over 900 pounds, all cast iron tables. I think Jet makes a good combo machine more along the lines of the MM, but this isn't it.

My guess is that it would end up being a disappointment. Better to get a good lunchbox planer and build a sled to joint faces, then add a good jointer when there is money in the budget.

Dan

[Dan Karachio]

Mike, I think I am with you on the hand planes - wrong forum I know! :-)

I have a cheap little bench and with my new planes I have spent hours "practicing" on that thing to the point where I may have taken the top down 1/4"! Plus, I could use the exercise. Don, thanks. I think you are right about this unit potentially being a disappointment.

[Chris Padilla]

My problem with a combination machine is the time it takes to convert the machine - it's always in the wrong configuration.

Mike

How much time does it take, Mike? ;)

[Chris Konikowski]

I have a very small shop and have the same problem you do - how to joint a board? I do it by hand. It's a skill you have to learn but it's not too difficult and only requires a small number of hand planes. The work is physical but I'm retired (meaning old) and can do it without too much fatigue.

My problem with a combination machine is the time it takes to convert the machine - it's always in the wrong configuration.

Mike

I have never hand jointed a board so forgive me, but how long does this take?
Now, how long does it take to switch the combo machine over?

[Rod Sheridan]

I have never hand jointed a board so forgive me, but how long does this take?
Now, how long does it take to switch the combo machine over?

Hand jointing a board is a skill well worth learning, however it is far slower for me than using a jointer.

I have a combination jointer/planer (Hammer A3-31) and it takes about 15 seconds to convert from jointer to planer mode.

- slide the fence back

- unlock and tilt the table away

- unlock and tilt the other table away

- flip over the dust hood

- connect extraction hose

Then I crank the planer table to the desired size (mine has a digital readout).

Converting the other way takes less than a minute since I may have to crank the planer table from say 20mm to 170mm which is 75 rotations of the crank.

Note that the crank moves almost effortlessly, however it takes maybe 20 to 30 seconds to do that.

Then 15 seconds to undo the first conversion

- remove the extraction hose

- flip over the dust hood

- lower and lock the outfeed table

- lower and lock the infeed table

- slide the fence forward

That's it.

There's no way I can joint a board with a handplane in under 1 minute.......Rod.

[glenn bradley]

My problem with a combination machine is the time it takes to convert the machine - it's always in the wrong configuration.

I mentioned the time required in another thread and got many enthusiastic replies (from owners) about how changing over only take 90 seconds, its no big deal, etc. I'm still unconvinced as I can barely stand the amount of time it takes my PC to shutdown and that's about 90 seconds. :D

As to the OP, how good do you expect a $400 version of a $4000 tool to be? :D:D:D;)

[Dan Karachio]

Hey Glen, I certainly don't expect it to be on par with the better quality combos. I guess what I was saying is at that low price, my expectation is it is junk. I guess I am surprised Jet would put out junk.

[Pat Germain]

It looks like a lunchbox planer with jointing tables bolted on top. While certainly not a top of the line machine, it could be just the ticket for many a woodworker on a budget when it comes to money and space.

I wouldn't be surprised if lunchbox planers were ridiculed when they first came out. I have a lunchbox planer and it works very well for me. I will reserve judgement on that new combo machine until I hear from people who have actually used it.

[Dave Lehnert]

That line was put out by JET for the woodworker in a small space. The woodworker who wants a better made bench top tools over Craftsman and the like. It should not be compared to the much larger combo units on the markets.
Considering it cost less than some lunch box planers the jointer is just a bonus.
As an owner of a Shopsmith I hear all the time about changeover time. It is no big deal. I compare it no different than changing the speed belt on a drill press but no one complains about that.

[Brian Kent]

I think we may have a contest on our hands.

Dan Karachio buys the planer jointer for $483.98 (price with shipping / no tax) and Mike gets to use any hand planes he can get for $483.98.

Power off.
Planes on the bench.
Five foot board, 8" wide.

"GO!"

Dan changes configurations. Puts on hearing protection. Sets up the dust hose and turns on the dust collector. Turns on the machine.
Mike sets up his board on a bench.

Dan joints the edge.
Mike joints the edge.

Dan flips the board on side one.
Mike flips the board on side one.

They flatten one side.

Dan changes configurations. Flips board over.
Mike flips the board over.

Dan runs the board through the planer.
Mike flattens side two.

Dan sands the machine marks out of the board.
Dan re-planes or sands to deal with the snipe from using a jointer and planer with 40" bed length.

Mike has a glassy surface.

Dan sweeps up stray sawdust.
Mike sweeps up curly shavings.

Done!

Who won?:confused:

Vote for:
Total time
Surface Quality
Dimensional Quality
Total woodworking enjoyment

[Narayan Nayar]

Hand jointing a board is a skill well worth learning, however it is far slower for me than using a jointer.

I have a combination jointer/planer (Hammer A3-31) and it takes about 15 seconds to convert from jointer to planer mode.

...

There's no way I can joint a board with a handplane in under 1 minute.......Rod.

Rod, I both have the A3-31 and a #8 jointer plane. I love both. But if I've got one board to dimension, I'll almost always reach for the plane. There are limits, of course, and I'm not saying every board can be flattened in a minute (either on powered equipment or with a handtool), but for me, anyway, unless I can tell it's going to be a lot of work (severe cups, bizarre grain pattern, etc.), it's a handplane for me. 2-3 boards, a tougher call. 4 boards, and I'm definitely starting up the Hammer.

Not bragging or anything. Clearly there are multiple ways to skin a cat. (just don't do that on a jointer---gets messy I hear)

[Mike Henderson]

I'm no glutton for punishment and if I have access to a big jointer, I'll almost always use the jointer. But I don't have a jointer in my shop, so I use hand tools to flatten a board (note, I said "a board"). If I had a whole bunch of rough sawn lumber to prepare, I'd take it to my friend's shop and do it on the jointer.

I'm sure that someone with that Jet could beat me in flattening a board, even with the machine conversion time.

But every now and then, I really enjoy pulling out the planes and flattening a board with hand tools.

Mike

[David DeCristoforo]

OK, here's the deal. The machine is a lightweight, "low end" (I am purposefully not using a term like "piece of crap") tool that is not intended to perform at the same level as a $4,000, 900 pound "professional grade" machine. It would probably be OK for very light occasional use. Trying to pit any machine against a hand tool with time being the only issue is non-sensical. Would you try and run a foot race with a guy on a motorcycle or even a cheap scooter? This machine will be a "you get what you pay for" machine. If you only need what you will get, it may be worth the money. But if you are expecting more than what is realistic for a machine in this price range, you should save your dough.

[Richard McComas]

Read this thread, it should convince you to stay away from that machine.


http://www.woodmagazine.com/dgroups/index.jsp?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a97186dc4-8565-4d1a-acb0-8c53ed988d12Forum%3a733f3829-0f29-496a-b5f6-45814f521765Discussion%3a6c3732c5-17b7-4581-ab24-2e4a22e6772a

[Dan Karachio]

Thanks all. I guess I wasn't clear. I was never serious about buying this, I just raised it as an example of something that might be very appealing to a hobby home shop person because so many of us face this dilemma. Putting out a jointer AND planer for $400 seems (as I titled my thread) "too good to be true." Jet seems like a respectable company and I wonder why they would put out a jointer that is not flat. I mean how could it be with that wimpy looking steel? I have been hesitant to pull the trigger, but seems that $400 + a little more can be put to a good quality lunch box planer. There is no magic bullet.

[Jim Becker]

My problem with a combination machine is the time it takes to convert the machine - it's always in the wrong configuration.

A minute to a minute and a half to switch my MM FS350 over...I think that the "changeover time" objection is based more on myth, rather than reality, at least for current generation combo machines. The manufacturers have really put time into making changeovers fast and easy.

[Brian Effinger]

I'm thinking that these are geared more towards a jobsite. They are something cheap and light that can be moved from job to job easily.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

A minute to a minute and a half to switch my MM FS350 over...I think that the "changeover time" objection is based more on myth, rather than reality, at least for current generation combo machines. The manufacturers have really put time into making changeovers fast and easy.


I've got to agree with you Jim. 22 seconds for my Felder CF741 for a full changeover. I do have Power Drive. Shish, I can't even clear my bench and grab a plane in 22 seconds.

[Peter Quinn]

I'm thinking that these are geared more towards a jobsite. They are something cheap and light that can be moved from job to job easily.

Funny, I was delivering to a job site last week that had one of those hitachi J/P combos on site. I asked how they like it out of curiosity, was told the planer rocks, the jointer aspect of it left quite a bit to be desired. The GC noted "just what can you expect to joint on a table that short?" They keep it for its role as a thickness planer solely.

So my thinking is that even if this machine didn't have some serious technical draw backs its mere size would be a serious limitation. Perhaps just the thing for a person whose greatest ambition was to make rough bird houses from pallet wood, but not much more? Not a serious wood working machine.

[chris beserra]

I can get one of these for $219 - the 10" version. But is it going to be good enough to make furniture?

I can pick it up easily and I'm worried it is not going to be stable. Also, the fence doesn't move, as mentioned before, and it seems like the blades will wear out very quickly. I wonder how easily a "sacrificial" spacer fence could be attached?