Shaper Advice??

[Ken Wright]

Giving thought to the purchase of a shaper..... Any experience and suggestions w/b appreciated.

We're in the final planning stages of a house building project. Planning on doing a lot of the interior finish work myself.... particularly mouldings and giving some consideration to building some of the interior doors myself.

[Steve Clardy]

I have experience with two different shapers. Grizzly 3hp and Powermatic 3hp.
Several years ago I borrowed my friends Grizzly he had. He was in cogneto with it, between moving and changing wives, building a new house, etc.
He loaned it to me when I started in cabinets, making doors.
I used it for several years, then he needed it back.
It had super power, ran well, etc. But what I didn't like was the fence and the adjustment. Everything was casted crooked, machined bad.. I had to shim the fence, and always had to check everything every time the fence was moved.
Anyway, I was shopping for a new one, and was going to buy another Grizzly hoping the fences were better. During my shopping I ran across a powermatic that my sometimes tool dealer had. He had made a special purchase from powermatic, buying 30 of them. So he could pass some of the cost savings on.
I ended up buying it for $50.00 more than the grizzly. Same size, power, etc.
Plus the fence is right on, had real good dust collection built-in. Grizzly had none, but an optional dust hood that could be purchased.
Fit and finish on this machine is great.
Steve

[Clint deal]

I have the model 27 Powermatic. Can't say anything bad at all about it. Since I bought it my home built router table has been pushed out back and never used. if you go with a shaper go ahead and buy the router bit collet with it so you can use your 1/2" bits that you might already have. they won't spin as fast as if in the router but you can adjust your feed rate to compensate.
i think mine's a model 27 anyway, it's a 3hp
Clint

[Steve Jenkins]

Ken,when you are looking at shapers and prices make sure you figure in a feeder. Not one of the mini ones but a decent 3-4wheel. Steve

[Richard McComas]

Steve brings up a very good point about fences on shapers. I have some experience with Delta 3hp shapers, Powermatic, Woodtek and the shaper and fence on the Felder saw/shaper combo. The Felder having the most accurate and fast to set up fence that Ive used. Next in line IMHO is the Delta then the Powermatic and last the Woodtek, none of them being perfect.

A hard to set up fence can take a lot of the fun out of using a shaper. Most shaper fences I’m familiar with all bolts down thru the fence into holes drilled and taped into the cast iron tabletop. This means if you buy a grizzly or whatever you don’t necessarily have to live with that fence. You could use most any brand of fence by drilling and taping a couple well-placed holes in the tabletop.

You can also build you own fence/fences for different application. When I was raising panels on my 3hp Delta (before I got a power feeder I made an auxiliary top and zero clearance fence for that operation.

Last but not least plan on getting a power feeder and keep your hands out of the way.

Not shown in the picture was a box with a hole in it for dust collection. Speaking of dust collection that’s a must when using a shaper.

<img src="http://www.fototime.com/551751553390973/standard.jpg" border=0>

[Ken Wright]

for the time and advice ... the closet place to here for me to look at a shaper that I know of is 260 miles away .... kinda hard to go shopping.

Have any of you had experience building interior doors??? If so could you comment on the advisibility of such a project for a new house???

[Steve Clardy]

for the time and advice ... the closet place to here for me to look at a shaper that I know of is 260 miles away .... kinda hard to go shopping.

Have any of you had experience building interior doors??? If so could you comment on the advisibility of such a project for a new house???
You need to consider what kind of doors and type of material.
Then figure tool and tooling investment.
Shaper 9-12 hundred
power feeder 2-4 hundred
cutters 5 hundred

If you are wanting solid wood doors with panels out of oak, those are readily available. If you want cherry or walnut, you'll have to make or have a door shop make them.
If you need 10 oak doors, by the time you buy the best material, tools and tooling, you are not going to save anything.
But. After you get the doors done if you build them, you will have the capacity and knowledge to build custom doors for others.
So. I would sit down and figure it both ways. Get the boughten door cost, plus the cost to buy the equipment and materials.
Steve

[Steve Jenkins]

Another option if you want raised panel doors is to buy the molded woodgrain doors at the borg already primed. Toss on a coat of paint then at your leisure make new doors. It's a real pain having a sheet hanging over a bathrom or bedroom opening waiting for the doors to be finished. Steve

[Jamie Buxton]

Have any of you had experience building interior doors??? If so could you comment on the advisibility of such a project for a new house???

A couple weeks ago there was a thread here about this. Search with "making doors". John Milunas started it.

[Ken Wright]

for all the info and advice ... still not sure what I'll do ... maybe wait until the IWF in Atlanta and make a decision when I can see what the alternatives are.

Capital Investment in machinery and wood plus the time that would have to be devoted to building out 20+ doors probably make this a wild idea anyway. Sure would like to have some quality solid thisk wood doors instead of "store-bought everybody's got the same stuff" type of doors.

[Chris Padilla]

Ken,

It really boils down to time and money...we all prioritize those in mulitudes of ways...and our wives help us with most of that.... :D

[Steve Jenkins]

I think that waiting for the IWF is a good idea. If you haven't been before you will be amazed at the selection and variety. Being able to talk with the manufacturers directly is a big bonus. Steve

[Alan Turner]

We bought a building for my day job, and built it out for offices. I wanted the "men's club" feel (to be distinguished for a gentleman's club). Cherry and dark green carpeting filled the bill.

I had a mill shop build ten 8/4 cherry, raised panel doors (three panels, one large, at bottom, 2 panels on top, dividing line was 8" lockset stile). Sort of a Federal Period look, I thought. They are great, and make this a warm place (together with cherry base and cherry door and window casing throughout). Today, I would build them myself, and do a better job.

When we looked at cost, the solid wood meant one finishing job only, whereas we had to figure a trim paint job every 3 or 4 years with painted doors, molding, etc. Pine millwork, + 2 painings, and we were even, since the wood will not need refinishing in my life, I think. We prefinished the cherry molding and were careful on the installation. Plus, the look is much different.

If you love to work wood, and have the time, the worst position you could be in would be to own the tooling forever, free, which is not a bad deal. Go for it. You won't need 8/4; 6/4 will be fine. Buildinhg a door with the right equipment is not too difficult, if you can get good wood. Remember, it is critical that the rail and stile stock be straight grained so that warpage does not plague you, either during construction or later.

Alan

[Ken Wright]

you threw gas on the fire ... those thoughts were still rambling around in my head ... can't help but be a really big difference in those 8/4 doors vs. the store bought stuff ... and the pine can never be stained a really good color ... at least it hasn't in 16 houses in this life time...

Any chance you could share a pic of one of those doors??

Thanks for the info.

[Jamie Buxton]

You won't need 8/4; 6/4 will be fine.

Alan

6/4? Are we both talking the standard 1 3/8" thick interior door? If you're lucky enough to get 6/4 which is really 1 1/2" thick, you've still only got 1/16" planing thickness on each face to straighten the board, and to clean off saw marks. On most of the lumber I see, I'd have to buy 8/4 to build interior doors.

[Alan Turner]

Jamie,
Yes, I was talking 1 3/8 doors. And I think you are probably right about the 8/4, but most of the 6/4 I get from Groff & Groff is a pretty generous 1.5", and I might actually net 1.375. It would be a board to board issue, and I would probably go with the 8/4 for speed. I don't buy much 6/4 stock, but I know that on 8/4, it is not unusual for me to be able to net 1.875.

Ken,
Don't have a pix, but will try to remember to take one and post it.

Alan

[John Weber]

Ken,

I bought the Delta 3hp last year after initially thinking I could only afford an imported or used machine. Once I was able to see an imported shaper (General International much like the Grizzly) and the Delta side by side, the decision was easy. The Delta is a much more refined machine, smooth operation, nicer castings, all cast iron undercarriage vs. some stamped steel used it the General. The fence on the Delta is also vastly superior to the imports, very easy to adjust and excellent dust collection. The Delta also has the largest table, well engineered and refined drive system, and is still made in the USA with an American made motor by Marathon and US built controls, plus the finest control on spindle height adjustment of any competitive machine. This is extremely important in ease of setup - most people never think of it at first. Some other benefits of the Delta are excellent fit and finish and a 2 year warranty.

Delta has a great package, you get router collets and a mobile fence for not much more then an import when all factors are considered. The better warranty and refinement of the Delta are well worth the extra cost. Of the imports the Sunhill seemed to offer the best value of large spindles, and overall very heavy duty construction. The imports seem to compete more on price, and you need to look for plastic parts, overall finish, and sheet metal vs cast iron under the top. I think the imports are a good value, but the Delta just offers the total package.

Right now Woodworkers Supply has the Limited Edition Shapers on sale, plus you can save another 10% if you are a new customer.

I just added a power feeder and the shaper is a dream to use. I would really consider adding a feeder if you plan to do much shaping. I ended up with a Steff/Maggi from Italy; they make Felder feeders and maybe some others. The largest feeder manufacturer is CoMatic from Taiwan, they make most of the feeders you see Delta, Sunhill, King, etc…), and are decent, the Steff/Maggi’s are just a little more refined and according to my dealer use better materials for gears and such.

John

[Ken Wright]

for all the info .... I'll look into it.