Coring System Misadventures (the long version!)

[Steve Schlumpf]

A few months ago Pete Jordan sent me his McNaughton coring system to try out as I had mentioned a few times that I was starting to think about some type of coring system. I wanted to try it out but first I had a large number of smaller blanks that I needed to rough out before I took the time to play.

I had 2 large chunks of maple left over from last year and grabbed one of them for coring. Brought into the shop to let it thaw out for a couple of days before mounting it on the lathe. Meanwhile, I watched 2 videos that Pete had included when shipping the coring system – one by Mike Mahoney and another by Reed Gray. Both were very good videos but found I preferred Reed’s DVD. Very nice work Reed!

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Mounted the blank on the lathe and roughed out a bowl shape. Set up the coring tool. My lathe is the Jet 1642, 2 hp variety and I had it in the low range. Because of variations in the density of the wood, the max I could turn the speed up to was 400 rpm before everything would start shaking. Checked the cutter and it had a nice burr. OK, with smooth and steady pressure, eased the cutter into the wood and BLAM! Stopped the lathe cold! Wow…….. that was impressive! Gathered my nerve and tried it again with the same result.

Well, that wasn’t like in the movies…. So I stopped and checked everything. Everything looked fine. About the only thing I found that might cause a problem was the height of the cutter. I had the tool support bottomed out in the tool rest and found that the cutter was still about 1/8” to ¼” inch above center – no matter what. Thought maybe the pressure wasn’t firm enough when starting the cut……so I tried it again. Same results! Tried this another 4 or 5 times with the same results.

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Well, enough of that! Was seriously afraid that I was going to break something, so shut everything down. I checked out the blank and could see where the cutter had just ripped out chunks of wood instead of cutting. There is a very good chance that the problem lies with the wood and not the system or the way I was trying to use it as there were a few pieces of this maple that just would not cut. It would gum up the gouge or whatever tool I would use. Oh well.

Decided to make the most of all the curl in the blank and roughed it out as a large southwestern style hollow form. Big surprise with that decision, eh?

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Coring is something I will play again with in the future, just not right now.

Thanks for lending the system Pete! It was exciting! :D

A note on the photos: none of the photos show the coring system in place. I went from coring to hollowing in a very short order (before I remembered to take a photo) and replaced the system with my regular tool rest so I could shape the outside of the HF.

As always, your comments, opinions and laugh tracks are welcome!

Thanks for looking!

[Maria Alvarado]

That's too bad Steve. Better luck next time. Then again, Someone was looking out for you because look at all that lovely grain that would have turned to shavings! Beautiful hollow form. Can't wait to see it pop when you put the finish on it.

[Richard Madison]

Steve,

I had exactly the same experience with the McNaughton system. I repackaged it and returned it to the source. Too big a learning curve for me. Thought maybe I was the only one. Thanks for your post.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Sorry to hear Steve. Had the same problem with that system when I tried it. I tried it several times and just didn't like it. I bought the oneway easy core and haven't looked back. Don't know why I could work the McNaughton but couldn't.

[Pete Jordan]

Why do you think I sent it to you. I was hoping you could show me how.

[Steve Schlumpf]

ROFLOL

Now that's funny Pete!

[Reed Gray]

I would have to have seen you in action to be able to figure out what was going wrong. Being 1/4 to 1/8 inch above center isn't the problem. It probably wasn't the wood as I have cored some really nasty stuff, end grain, flat grain, and end grain. One possible thing could be that you didn't have the blade up against the top support of the tool rest. The tip hits the wood and since it isn't supported it drops and catches with the blade slamming up against the top support. If you have a little 'slop' in the tool, first contact with the wood will take it out in a hurry. I have done that a few times, and being a pro, can do it without being up against it, but don't make a habit of it. I know it seems like that top bar is there 'just in case' but it really is there for a reason, and the blade has to ride on it. If I ever get out that way, I will stop by. Or if you are out here, same thing.
robo hippy

[tom martin]

Hi Steve,
While I'm not an expert, I have cored many bowls with pretty good success. Reed helped me out with some shortcuts and subtleties that I would be happy to share with you. I'm a little closer than Oregon so if you ever are down around Tomahawk Wi. stop by and you'll be coring bowls like crazy. It really is easy and fun and economical and easier to cleanup afterward!
Tom

[Steve Schlumpf]

Reed,

The door is always open and would enjoy the visit!

I paid a lot of attention to the videos and was very conscientious of the top support. I made an effort to lift the back end of the tool until it hit the support before easing it forward into the wood. I am usually pretty good at figuring things out but this left me with questions. To my knowledge - I did everything I was suppose to (obviously I missed something). The only thing I wish I could have done was increase the speed to around 650 or so. I do feel that would have created enough momentum to get the cut started. Figure like any other cut - once started things are fairly predictable.

One of these days I will try it again as a lot of folks swear by this system. I do like the various cutters and can see the advantage over the fixed radius systems.

Oh well, better luck next time!

[Steve Schlumpf]

Appreciate the offer Tom!

[Rick Prosser]

Sounds scary...

I am/was planning to purchase this coring system, so I will be very interested to hear if you figure out the problem.

From the photos, it looks like the tail center is used while coring - is that true? I tried a one way corer once, but could not get the tail stock to the wood due to interference from the corer.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Rick - nothing scary about it - just a system I am not familiar with. This is one of those things that having someone actually demo it for you would go a long way to understanding how everything works together. I waited until now because our turning club was to have a demo on this very system last Tuesday. Wouldn't you know it - the coring system wouldn't fit on the old lathe we have at the club! I figured I would just watch the videos 4 or 5 times and go give it a try.

Just me, but I would have felt better having the tool support holder sit just a little lower in the banjo. I would have also liked the speed a little higher. I would also like to win the lottery!

No big deal but there is no reason why my experience should deter you from picking up a coring system. I believe this system works - I just didn't figure it out the first time around.

[Jon McCoy]

I just got the smallest system for my mini, and cored a walnut set without issue. I was concerned the small motor wouldn't have the power to core, but although slower than the big boys, it all went fine.

-jon-

[Allen Neighbors]

Steve, I have the McNaughton standard system... (wish I had the smaller one, to go with it)... and never have a problem except in core thickness. I think that's my problem, not the tool's. :D
But, shucks, that surely is a beautiful hollow form!! Would like to see the shot of it when it's finished. Gorgeous!!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Sounds scary...

I am/was planning to purchase this coring system, so I will be very interested to hear if you figure out the problem.

From the photos, it looks like the tail center is used while coring - is that true? I tried a one way corer once, but could not get the tail stock to the wood due to interference from the corer.

Rick I use a livecenter extension on mine. Watch the oneway video and he shows it. I haven't had a problem with the tailstock being in the road.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Jon, you core with a mini? I wouldn't think it had enough power. That's all I have, so that info is interesting. What mini? Not that I'd have the extra cash to plink down on that system right now. I need to buy a Thompson gouge, and..... Ohhhhh the vortex is starting to get stronger......

Help meeeeee......

[Greg Haugen]

Steve,
I have a Jet 1642 too. The way our banjo is made, with the rod for the locking mechanism directly centered in the hole for the tool rest, some of the tool rests have too long of a post to get low enough. When I bought my McNaughton I found that the tool post would actually bottom out on that rod in the banjo. Thankfully the cutter was dead-on center. A friend of mine, who has the same lathe, was having problems with his though. After taking a look at it I saw that his post was longer than mine even though we bought our systems the same day at the same place. Mcnaughton has an issue with "consistancy" in their manufacturing at times. The knives are designed so the cutter is dead-on center. There's a radius on the outside of the top of the knife and the bottom side-if the cutter is centered-the knife can easily pass through the kerf. If the cutter is higher than center, the knife can no longer pass through the kerf and the top edge will catch harder causing a dislodge. After we changed his tool post to mine which was shorter so the cutter was centered and worked on controlling the cut (Mahoney in his DVD shows how he uses his left hand to grip the knife up against the backside of the tool gate-by tightening or loosening his grip he can better control the knife's advancements) he cored out 2 sets of 3 bowls that evening without a single issue.

[Tom Lewis]

Steve, was the maple pretty dry? I would recomend learning on green wood before trying dry wood.
Also, I think the key to successful coring is to keep the tool handle up at all times and feed slowly.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Tom - the maple was some of the wettest stuff I have ever turned. Halfway think that the inside was frozen and thawed as I turned it. Had water spraying out of it like I had a hose connected to the lathe!

I am sure that what ever the problem was - the fault rested with me. Having only seen videos on how this thing works - I am confident that once I actually see someone using one I will understand what I did wrong.

Appreciate all the insights and hope they may help someone else going through this.

[alex carey]

Sorry to hear about your troubles, but I too am glad you figured out something nice to do with that wood. It looks great. GL next time you use the coring system.

[Jeff Nicol]

Steve, What I found out was that the speed had to be higher than 500RPM on the 3520B. The faster I could go the better, as the shavings came out easier and cleaner. Another thing I did was wax the tool and the tool post, also cleaned up any sharp edges that would tend to bite in the rest. The first time I used the McNaughton I could not get it to enter the wood smoothly and continue with steady even entry into the wood. That is when I lubed it up and smoothed it out, and it is much better, I will also use some WD40 on the blade of the tool sometimes to keep slick. I also noticed sometimes I would have to start on the inside of the tool rest first and get into the wood then about half way I will switch to the other side to finish the cut. The other thing that really helps is to make sure your entrance opening is a little larger so there is room to move the blade in the fishtail motion when needed. Reed shows that in his video and it really makes a difference! One last thing that I noticed on wet twisty hard maple, it tends to leave some little flippers in the groove of the cut, like little burrs that tend to gum up and bind the deeper you get into the cut, so the widening of the cut helps there too. Don't give up on it and it will do great things for you! Maybe if there was a lake close buy your place that had some walleye and big perch in it I could take a road trip and goof off a bit and give you some pointers at the same time!

Jeff

[Steve Schlumpf]

Appreciate the insights Jeff! I may try it again before I have to return it to Pete but I am already hollowing out the last big piece of maple that I had cut. Still have some wood in log form - but now that it is spring - have lots of little projects starting to crop up!

When it comes to the lake/fish thing - you do have a few options that are real close by. You get serious about a road trip - you let me know!

[Pete Jordan]

Steve you coward!:)

You have more wood than you can shake a stick at. Don't give up yet~

[Steve Schlumpf]

Not giving up Pete! Just have 'spring' duties that have been assigned to me that need completion first! LOL

[Mark Norman]

Not giving up Pete! Just have 'spring' duties that have been assigned to me that need completion first! LOL

A big pile of honey-dos eh Steve? lol me too.

I have no doubt I will be trying coring myself, sorry it didn't work out for ya this time but I trust you will be trying again....right?;)

[Ryan Baker]

My McNaughton system showed up about two days ago. Haven't had a chance to test it out yet -- maybe this weekend if I have a chance. I have the 1642-2 also. Hopefully I will have more luck than Steve first time out.

[Jim Kountz]

Steve sorry to hear about your troubles. Stories like yours and many others just like it is why I went with the Woodcut Bowl Saver. Its just silky smooth throughout the entire process and there is no pucker factor. One of the guys in our local club brought the McNaughton in one time and couldnt even demo the darn thing hardly for all the catches and fussing around he had to do with it. That being said I know there are plenty of folks who use it and use it well but dang if I know how they do it. Must be a Zen kind of thing that I and you and many others dont know about. With the Oneway system and the Woodcut, theres no learning curve to amount to anything and you can be coring bowls in less than two minutes. Thats about all the time it takes to set it up and get going.
On another note, I really LOVE the HF you made from the blank, I dont know how you guys do that stuff either but I really want to learn!!

[Reed Gray]

Some people swear by this tool, and probably every one who has tried it has sworn at the tool as well, and probably more than once.

As far as speeds go, I have never had a read out on my lathes so I have no real idea how fast I am coring or turning. I have been experimenting on the low end range on my Robust which is supposed to max out at 500. It cores fine at lower speeds, but, like mentioned earlier, the chips don't clear as well.

The comment about polishing and waxing the blades is accurate, but I have never polished my blades. I did use Pam on them, and Mahoney's walnut oil, and it makes some difference, but most of the time I forget. It is particularly helpful on woods that have pitch in them or are sticky for other reasons, and you don't get as much chip build up on the blades.

If you do have a catch, there is a divot that has to be removed. You have to go into it very gently because it can cause another catch just by itself. Takes fine tool control.

I never use the tailstock. It can be helpful, especially when you are first starting, but most of the time it was in the way for me. Less so with the flatter blades, and more so with the more curved blades. I just leared to do without it.

McNaughton does have micro blades that are designed for the mini lathes and 1/2 hp motors. Cutters are less than 1/4 inch wide. I haven't used them too much, but have some Mountain Mahogany that I will need to core, as I don't want to waste any of that. When I get a round to it, I will post.

robo hippy

[Ryan Baker]

I just checked and the tool post is too high on mine as well -- probably a good 1/4", but I didn't measure yet. Guess I will be cutting off the post before I start. Something else to add to the to-do list. I think they sell different length posts, but it would take forever to actually get ahold of one. Getting a set of mini blades is proving a challenge too. Must be on the slow boat out of NZ.

[Jeff Nicol]

Appreciate the insights Jeff! I may try it again before I have to return it to Pete but I am already hollowing out the last big piece of maple that I had cut. Still have some wood in log form - but now that it is spring - have lots of little projects starting to crop up!

When it comes to the lake/fish thing - you do have a few options that are real close by. You get serious about a road trip - you let me know!
Steve, I will definitly keep you posted when we are ready to head north!

Jeff

[Ryan Baker]

I've just been playing around a little with the McNaughton tool and thought I would post some first impressions. I did cut down the tool post about 3/8" so I could get the tool height adjusted properly. Overall, I guess I was pretty successful for my first crack at this tool -- I cored a bowl with very even thickness and right where I wanted it to go depth wise. I did have to fight with it a bit. I definitely have lots more practicing to do. I was coring some very dry (probably not a great choice) cherry. It can be a bit scary at times for sure. That is a really huge kerf (3/8" or so) to be scraping out all at once from dry wood. I am now more convinced than ever that I am going to hunt down a set of the mini blades. I had some trouble with the blade not sliding well through the gate. That improved some as I played around with various lubes: started with WD40, moved to wax which worked better but didn't last long. You definitely need to get the tool sliding smoothly, or it tends to bind and then jump into the cut too fast, which makes it grab. I have the new style tool post, and I wonder if that design slides as smoothly as the old style. I recommend having a really good, strong chuck grasp (not the place to use a small tenon). It's definitely a versatile tool. I think I am going to like it once I get a little better at using it.

[Jim Kountz]

Man I dont know guys. Im not liking what I hear about this system at all. Everything is "I had to try this method" or " it worked when I lubed it" or "I had to do such and such". Just to get the thing to work. Coring just shouldnt be that hard to do and isnt with other systems. I know Ive only been turning a short while compared to most here but dang if I had to fiddle around with something that much just to get it to do its job I would have trashed it a long time ago. It should be out of the box, set it up and go. What am I and the others that had such troubles with this system missing and why cant anyone seem to put a finger on it? Just seems strange to me. Im asking here because I really want to know whats going on with this thing. Seems like it could be a good system but not if it takes a month of Sundays to learn how to use it.
Anyone?

[Rasmus Petersen]

Well i would love to own and learn to use the MC system.. because i know its versatile... Have cored bowls with the PROMAT coring tool lately and that is just about as much plug and play as possible... Took me excatly 2 minuts to setup the first time and core the first bowl...

But it a fixed radius system great for coring quick and easy.. but when you have a strage burl (and i have several) i would like to be able to core differet shapes... and for that the mc system Should be the only option out there....

[Reed Gray]

Jim, I kept thinking about your reply. As some one who uses the McNaughton, and when demoing it people say, "gee, you make it look so easy, I wish I could get it to work like that." It took me a long time to make the bowl gouge work properly, and the skew chisel still gives me fits, but with persistance, I have tamed them some what. The same with the McNaughton. For me, it greatly out performs the other systems, but you have to learn how to use it.
robo hippy

[Jim Kountz]

Jim, I kept thinking about your reply. As some one who uses the McNaughton, and when demoing it people say, "gee, you make it look so easy, I wish I could get it to work like that." It took me a long time to make the bowl gouge work properly, and the skew chisel still gives me fits, but with persistance, I have tamed them some what. The same with the McNaughton. For me, it greatly out performs the other systems, but you have to learn how to use it.
robo hippy

I understand what you're saying and I also agree that it does seem to be more versatile in the shapes of cores it can take, thats the best part about the system Id say. I guess whats bothering me is that it would seem that after all the time its been on the market, and after all the folks who have used it, someone would be able to say with a fair amount of certainty "this is what you need to do, and this is why it catches like crazy when you dont." Maybe that can be said I just havent been able to put a finger on it. It looks like a great system, it really does, I was just so turned off by all the negative things I read about it that I passed it by. GLad its worked out for you and again I understand and respect your point completely, makes perfect sense.

[Reed Gray]

Jim,
Thanks. I almost take it personally with the McNaughton. The reason I did a DVD on how to use it was because of the problems I and others have had with it. I can teach what took me years to figure out and learn in a short session. A video is a great teaching tool, but it isn't nearly as good as a 1 on 1 in shop session.
robo hippy