hide glue mess

[Brian Knop]

I TRIED putting down some walnut veneer, what I ended up with was a mess.
The veneer is wrinkled half stuck, the other half loose. I heated it to 150. Maybe I should have added more water. How do you keep the veneer from wrinkling and sticking. Any suggestion?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Brian, can you describe your technique? I suppose you are hammer veneering, but the problems that you described could be caused by a bunch of different things. Too little glue, wrong glue, wrong hammer, wrong technique, etc, so a few details would help.

[Brian Knop]

All I did was place glue on the veneer and substrate, used a hard rubber roller then covered with a board and place three cement blocks on top. I have a book on veneering, guess I should read it again. I mixed the glue one part glue to water by weight.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Brian, I assume that your using pearl hide glue? If so, try this mix. Fill a container however full of pearls that you think is close to what you need, then add warm water to just the same level as the pearls. Let it sit until everything is disolved, then put it in your glue pot to warm. My glue pot is a little crock pot that my wife gave me, which works well. 150 sounds about right for temp, I guess I've never measured, but your glue should be pretty thick. Kind of like warm honey.

Be generous with your application of it, it won't mess up the following finishes. In fact, some advocate smearing the top of the veneer so that the hammer slides well. I've tried that, but didn't really think it was nessecary. Next you really do need a hammer, not a roller. The roller won't apply as much concentrated pressure as the small edge of the hammer will.

If you don't have a hammer, they are pretty easy to make. I made one out of scrap walnut, and added a 5/16" brass dowl epoxied into the business end, to give a uniform bearing surface.

One of the beauties of hammer veneering is that you should not need to press anything to get it to all stick together. As the glue cools, and you work the veneer, it will bond, and you will end up with good adhesion with no clamps.

The whole process is a little goofy at first, and it may take a couple tries to get it down, but keep at it. The easier way is to buy a vacuum bag though....

[Brian Knop]

Thanks I'll give that a try

[george wilson]

Any temp.over 140 degrees will ruin the protein in the hide glue. This seems a bit debatable,but I have always followed this rule.

[Chris Padilla]

Keep in mind I have not done any hammer veneering as it sounds like quite a different technique that using a vacuum bag but the Better Bonds Cold Press Veneer glue that I use advocates only putting glue on the substrate and not the veneer. I then toss it in the bag and clamp it for an hour and then pull it out for final curing for several hours. It has worked very very well for me so far.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Keep in mind I have not done any hammer veneering as it sounds like quite a different technique that using a vacuum bag but the Better Bonds Cold Press Veneer glue that I use advocates only putting glue on the substrate and not the veneer. I then toss it in the bag and clamp it for an hour and then pull it out for final curing for several hours. It has worked very very well for me so far.

That is my prefered method too. I have goofed, and left the project in the bag overnight, and the glue set fine in there too by the way. :o

[Tony Bilello]

The wrinkling is caused by the moisture in the glue. I have only applied glue to the substrate and have never had a problem. The substrate will absorb most of the moisture and the veneer will go down as applied. I use a veneer hammer and when all looks good I follow it with a roller which I don't think helps much but makes me feel better.

[Thomas Knapp]

Brian, I assume that your using pearl hide glue? If so, try this mix. Fill a container however full of pearls that you think is close to what you need, then add warm water to just the same level as the pearls. Let it sit until everything is disolved, then put it in your glue pot to warm. My glue pot is a little crock pot that my wife gave me, which works well. 150 sounds about right for temp, I guess I've never measured, but your glue should be pretty thick. Kind of like warm honey.

Be generous with your application of it, it won't mess up the following finishes. In fact, some advocate smearing the top of the veneer so that the hammer slides well. I've tried that, but didn't really think it was nessecary. Next you really do need a hammer, not a roller. The roller won't apply as much concentrated pressure as the small edge of the hammer will.

If you don't have a hammer, they are pretty easy to make. I made one out of scrap walnut, and added a 5/16" brass dowl epoxied into the business end, to give a uniform bearing surface.

One of the beauties of hammer veneering is that you should not need to press anything to get it to all stick together. As the glue cools, and you work the veneer, it will bond, and you will end up with good adhesion with no clamps.

The whole process is a little goofy at first, and it may take a couple tries to get it down, but keep at it. The easier way is to buy a vacuum bag though....
I have had pretty much the same results as Steve. I was using ground glue, not the pearl glue, but I doubt there is much difference. I like hammer veneering for smaller areas and a vacuum bag for larger pieces. When hammer veneering, I do like to put some glue on top of the veneer though. I think it helps to keep the veneer from curling by balancing the moisture as well as lubing the hammer. I used a piece of dogwood for my hammer. An electric iron set on low can also be used to reheat problem areas. It must be done while there is still moisture in the glue. Heat up the problem area and press it down again.

[Thomas Knapp]

All I did was place glue on the veneer and substrate, used a hard rubber roller then covered with a board and place three cement blocks on top. I have a book on veneering, guess I should read it again. I mixed the glue one part glue to water by weight.
Another thing to remember is as the glue cools it turns into a gel. That provides the initial tack. Once the glue gels it is no longer sticky, so you must either work fast or use heat to remelt the gel. Warming your substrate before gluing can help. George Wilson, you have probably hammer veneered more than any of us. Tell us how you do it.