Dust Collector Decision -- Expert Advice Needed

[M Smith]

I have been told by the boss that I need a dust collector. Darn. I'm a very low-level hobbyist working out of a garage. Not a lot of dust being created, but that which is created does manage to cover everything in the garage. A point of constant consternation.

Anyways, since I will only have one machine on at a time, and my main dust creator is a table saw and sometimes a planer with various other small tools as well, I *doubt* I'll need a high-end system. In fact, I can probably surmise that something that runs of 110V would be sufficient.

Looking on Craigslist, there are two systems local being offered for sale. I would appreciate any insight on these and the price they're being offered. Basically, I would like to know if I there are any good reasons to pass them up for something else.

1) Jet DC-650 (650 CFM). Includes the dust collector itself, a pre-collector (trash can with a lid for inflow and outflow hoses), 25' of hoses, gates and some "Y's". Asking price is $250.

2) SECO UFO-90 1HP (650 CM). 2 shake felt polyester micron bags, 2 state dust separator top & fiber barrel, X10 remote control. Asking about $150.

Can I do better than either of these, or would one (or both) of these be a good value and I should jump on one? Need to make a decision soon.

Would appreciate any thoughts and opinions!

Thanks,
Mark

[Tom Adger]

There is another thread which is just above your post today in the Workshops section named "opinions about clear vue cyclones". The thread started in feb. I suggest you read it, and go to the clear vue website and look it over.

Whatever brand you buy, I suggest the vac include a cyclone. It traps almost all of the dust before it gets to the filter.

[Greg Crawford]

If your budget won't allow for a cyclone, check out the story on the Clear Vue site about modifying a Harbor Freight 2 HP to a 1 micron canister. Most interesting.

One word of advice, get a canister instead of a bag on a single stage. Cleaning filter bags is messy, nasty, dirty.

[M Smith]

If your budget won't allow for a cyclone, check out the story on the Clear Vue site about modifying a Harbor Freight 2 HP to a 1 micron canister. Most interesting.

One word of advice, get a canister instead of a bag on a single stage. Cleaning filter bags is messy, nasty, dirty.

I did look at the Clear Vue systems and they are probably a bit out of reach right now. Reading the site and reviews, they do look fantastic. Financial realities dictate my purchase be in a cheaper price-bracket, unfortunately.

Doesn't a pre-seperator function a lot like a cyclone, in that it removes much of the dust and particles before it reaches the bags on the collector? Adding one of those to a single stage system would be a huge benefit, I would think.

[Joel Earl]

It does but it will take a hit on the flow too so I'd maybe go a bit bigger on the DC to offset or maybe instead add the Phil Thien baffle to the inside of the DC vs the pre-sep being used.
Might want to google his site and read there too - it's designed more for those of us who don't want or won't pay the crazy prices they get for cyclones. You'll be amazed at what a few modifications can do to a basic DC at very little cost.

Live within the budget you have and want to spend and avoid the trap of spending way to much for what one really needs. Upgrading doesn't cost that much IF it turns out to be what you want/need in years ahead. Works great for me and everyone I've known if one is selective in initial buy - resale will be solid then

Good luck

[Anthony Whitesell]

As you will read, the CFM number boasted by the manufacturer are under their ideal conditions and not even close to what you will get when hooked to a machine. I understand the 110V only situation as I'm in the same boat. I suggest that you get the largest machine possible (based on the manufacturer's specs) that will work on 110V, probably 1 1/2HP on 12 gauge wire and a 20 amp breaker. 2HP will run on 110V but will likely need 10 gauge wire and a 30 amp breaker.

[Rob Cooper]

I had a jet 610 or 650 CFM dc. It did not move enough air to be effective. If you move the dc close enough to the machine in use the 1.5 hp should work. I think you will regret purchasing the 1hp machines. Compare impeller size as well as hp.

[M Smith]

I had a jet 610 or 650 CFM dc. It did not move enough air to be effective. If you move the dc close enough to the machine in use the 1.5 hp should work. I think you will regret purchasing the 1hp machines. Compare impeller size as well as hp.
Interesting. What did you upgrade to?

[M Smith]

I appreciate all the advice given here. You guys are far more knowledgeable than I'll ever be. I was hoping to get a little more feedback on one of the systems I'm looking at. I realize that a 650CFM (supposedly), 1 hp system is definitely not optimal, but I'm on a tight budget and just want something that will cut down the dust. My shop is in a garage, so it's not clean to begin with, and I'm lucky if I get 1-2 hours in a week to work out there, so you can see that a space-aged DC system would be way overkill for me.

Considering that, below is a picture of a system on Craigslist that is local. They want $130 for it (no tax or shipping!). My primary dust-creator is an old Craftsman table saw (no dust port). I realize I'm being tempted by this particular DC because of the price ($130 is almost free!), but my needs are about as minimal as they can get. My life probably won't allow me to become more dedicated until my kids are in college (and one isn't even in kindergarten yet!). So...again, thoughts are appreciated and if the general consensus is still for buying a better system, I will go that route.

I am currently limited to 110V in the garage, btw.

This system is a:
SECO UFO-90 1 HP collector (650 CFM)
2 Shake Felt Polyester Micron Bags
2nd Stage dust separator top & fiber barrel
X10 Remote Control

Thank you!

[Bill Blackburn]

Heck - for that kind of money I'd be all over it if all that stuff is included.
No walk - run. Serious.

You know your budget, needs and understand there are some limitations to this setup. It likely will not be the last DC you own or it may be at that. It is reasonable as heck and you wcan always resell it for what you got in it I bet. So ..... run to get it before it's gone;)

BTW - if the need ever arose for extra umph for a specific project you can undo the pre-seperater and direct tie in the hose. It will give you more suction.
I like it as is for most things

[Joel Earl]

what Bill said. Maybe you already running down the road as I just saw a flash outside my window:D

That's a pretty impressive setup for that amount of money. Snap it up!

[M Smith]

what Bill said. Maybe you already running down the road as I just saw a flash outside my window:D

That's a pretty impressive setup for that amount of money. Snap it up!
Yep, that was me! Running now. Thanks for the opinion.

[Joe Jensen]

Having been down this road, I would submit that the hoods and how you connect to the machine are more important than anything else. If you take the time to research, you will find that for nearly every collector on the market, the max cfm you get get through a 4" port is 350cfm. Doesn't matter if you have a 3000 cfm collector, 4" restriction in the duct, or at the port, will limit cfm to about 350.

I started with some 4" ports and some 5" ports. I've since modified tools to take 5" or 6" ports and I'm redone much of my duct and gates to upsize.

IMHO a 1HP collector will get sawdust but not the fine dust your significant other wants collected. A 1HP will reduce the amount of sweeping or vacuuming you do when cleaning up the shop. Also, if you are not able or willing to do over blade collection, the table saw will still make a big mess.

[M Smith]

Having been down this road, I would submit that the hoods and how you connect to the machine are more important than anything else. If you take the time to research, you will find that for nearly every collector on the market, the max cfm you get get through a 4" port is 350cfm. Doesn't matter if you have a 3000 cfm collector, 4" restriction in the duct, or at the port, will limit cfm to about 350.

I started with some 4" ports and some 5" ports. I've since modified tools to take 5" or 6" ports and I'm redone much of my duct and gates to upsize.

IMHO a 1HP collector will get sawdust but not the fine dust your significant other wants collected. A 1HP will reduce the amount of sweeping or vacuuming you do when cleaning up the shop. Also, if you are not able or willing to do over blade collection, the table saw will still make a big mess.
Joe -- very valid points. I agree that 1HP collection will not be a magic bullet for my dust woes. If, however, it is an improvement over nothing, then I'll be happy. Working in a garage, all kinds of junk flies into the garage whenever the door is opened, so it's unrealistic for me to expect to keep the place squeaky clean regardless. I do appreciate the insight, nonetheless.

[Marty Paulus]

Why not build a Thien seperator for the DC? Inexpensive and impressive preformance. I built one for my shop vac last week. About $20 to build with the fittings and such.

I would also look at the HF 2hp DC. I just got a print ad showing it for $179. Lots of OP on here have raved about it. Just need to get the financial advisor to free up some $$. However with summer coming on and yard work and boating season starting up I am sure $$ will go toward that stuff.

[M Smith]

Why not build a Thien seperator for the DC? Inexpensive and impressive preformance. I built one for my shop vac last week. About $20 to build with the fittings and such.

I would also look at the HF 2hp DC. I just got a print ad showing it for $179. Lots of OP on here have raved about it. Just need to get the financial advisor to free up some $$. However with summer coming on and yard work and boating season starting up I am sure $$ will go toward that stuff.
Can I get adequate dust collection with a Thien seperator? What is the minimum HP shop vac needed for one of those? I have a 2.5 HP Rigid which I suspect is NOT adequate. I've read many threads about Thien seperators, but the opinions are all over the place so I wasn't able to discern if they can give me performance nearly equal (all other variables the same) as a 1HP traditional DC.

[Marty Paulus]

Phil is a member of this forum and I am sure he will chime in soon. Until then google his name and check his web site out. From what I can tell the one that didn't work had some flaw in the build. It sounds as if they changed some aspect and the results didn't work out. I followed the design and recommendation of getting tight seals and mine works well. I have a Craftsman 16 gal shop vac (don't recall the HP) that is adequate for what I do. It is no 2hp dust collector so don't have the CFM. However, even Phil will tell you that you will loose CFM through the seperator. I suspcet through any seperator for that matter. The results in my shop vac (which never seems to get emptied by anyone that uses my garage except me) are only very fine dust. All the rest of the 'stuff' stays in the seperator. I am using a 30 metal can with a support ring about 1/2 way down to keep the can from collapsing. I hear shop vacs will do that.

Another thing you may want to look into is an air filter in the garage. One of the threads on here suggests using a simple box fan with a furnace filter attached to it. I haven't gotten around to this one yet but I am like you that I hate the dust all over everything. There is no prefect solution but every little bit helps.

[David Hostetler]

If you have the resources to do it, at a minimum, I would go with a HF #97869 2HP DC, and replace the upper bag with a 1 micron shaker felt bag. I have seen them, I don't recall where, for around $30.00 or so. A HUGE step up is adding a Phil Thien baffle to the inlet ring. Keeps the filter bag from having to deal with the large stuff, and most of the fines.

The DC is on sale right now I think for $179.00 at their stores, till early May I think. I got mine on sale in Feb for that price, and was able to stack a 20% off coupon on top of that, so I walked out the door for $143.00 + tax.

You will need some 4" dust hose, and to figure out a way to do custom dust collection from your tools. The table saw is going to be a pain. I am guessing it is an older Contractor style table saw. Hopefully somebody here will chime in with a link to some good upgrades for those. I know a belly pan with a 4" port worked great on my BT3100.

[Joel Earl]

Still beg to differ and just will say simply BUY IT.

It fits the budget. Okay - you could sell off the components I guess and toss in the Thien baffle if this takes a unsatisfactory performance hit. I'd wait before I fretted that.

Above blade DC? Okay - budget it like this if really wanted. Close off the bottom. Use a Wye - one to bottom collection point and the other to a hook or something on the ceiling, drop it down or attach to a 1x hanging down above the blade. $10 max - hose and wood.

Perfect -- no. But way better than what he has, many have ever had at that and it will get 80-90% of the stuff. Box fan and a filter if an AFF on the cheap is desires.

I'm looking at this from the "if it was me" perspective. Budget - met. Needs - mostly met. How can I say thats a bad deal?????

Hope it is already in the shop M Smith! It would be if I was you anyway.
Take all I say with a grain of dust - but that applies to everyone too;)
Not trying to bicker here guys so apologize if that seems the case. I been here and done it too and it works pretty well.

edited - google and check Phil's site. Been covered alot - some drop off will occur. People still doing it and happy tho. My fingers are done here. lol

[M Smith]

Still beg to differ and just will say simply BUY IT.

It fits the budget. Okay - you could sell off the components I guess and toss in the Thien baffle if this takes a unsatisfactory performance hit. I'd wait before I fretted that.

Above blade DC? Okay - budget it like this if really wanted. Close off the bottom. Use a Wye - one to bottom collection point and the other to a hook or something on the ceiling, drop it down or attach to a 1x hanging down above the blade. $10 max - hose and wood.

Perfect -- no. But way better than what he has, many have ever had at that and it will get 80-90% of the stuff. Box fan and a filter if an AFF on the cheap is desires.

I'm looking at this from the "if it was me" perspective. Budget - met. Needs - mostly met. How can I say thats a bad deal?????

Hope it is already in the shop M Smith! It would be if I was you anyway.
Take all I say with a grain of dust - but that applies to everyone too;)
Not trying to bicker here guys so apologize if that seems the case. I been here and done it too and it works pretty well.

edited - google and check Phil's site. Been covered alot - some drop off will occur. People still doing it and happy tho. My fingers are done here. lol
Joe -- it's not in the shop yet, but they're holding it until I can come look at it tomorrow. I realize it's not perfect, but it's waaay better than what I have, can be modified easily, and won't cost me much to find out if it's going to fit the bill. I know I can sell it for what I pay for it.

There are just so many options that it's almost mind boggling (well, close). If I did have a bigger budget, I'd pass this one up. Unfortunately we're watching our pennies, so I see this as a cheap way to get *good* DC.

I do appreciate the help from everyone here. At the rate my schedule fills up these days, it may be a couple weeks before I get to make some dust!

Cheers,
Mark

[Bill Blackburn]

Years back the caveman had it right. One tool called a club and it nearly did it all for them. Today way to many choices that all are good in their own right. My options are limited to my checkbook balance and I work from there.

If it works better than what I have and is cost effective it usually is right for me. Better to have something than want something that might not be purchased for years. Post us some pictures when it gets home.

[M Smith]

Years back the caveman had it right. One tool called a club and it nearly did it all for them. Today way to many choices that all are good in their own right. My options are limited to my checkbook balance and I work from there.

If it works better than what I have and is cost effective it usually is right for me. Better to have something than want something that might not be purchased for years. Post us some pictures when it gets home.
Caveman describes my woodworking skills as of late :D. Will do on the pictures!

[Paul Wunder]

Mark,

For your stated needs, the gold standard is a Delta 50-760, 1 1/2 horsepower rolling dust collector. It develops a stated 1200 cfm and has a one micron filter bag. It will run on 110 volts, and even AFTER "depreciating" the manufacture's stated output, it will certainly handle a 10" table saw and the other tools that you have. This model, which I own, (I am beginning installation of a new ClearVue 1800) will serve you well for about $350 new. Most importantly, it has been highly rated in independent testng by Fine Woodworking and Wood Magazines against many other similar machines. If you get ambitious, and want to invest another $130 at some point, the entire unit can be upgraded with a cartridge filter from Wynn environmental. I did that and it certainly improved the air flow.

Paul Wunder

[M Smith]

Mark,

For your stated needs, the gold standard is a Delta 50-760, 1 1/2 horsepower rolling dust collector. It develops a stated 1200 cfm and has a one micron filter bag. It will run on 110 volts, and even AFTER "depreciating" the manufacture's stated output, it will certainly handle a 10" table saw and the other tools that you have. This model, which I own, (I am beginning installation of a new ClearVue 1800) will serve you well for about $350 new. Most importantly, it has been highly rated in independent testng by Fine Woodworking and Wood Magazines against many other similar machines. If you get ambitious, and want to invest another $130 at some point, the entire unit can be upgraded with a cartridge filter from Wynn environmental. I did that and it certainly improved the air flow.

Paul Wunder
Paul,

Thanks for throwing a wrench into my plans :). I've read reviews of the Delta 50-760, and it is a very good machine. I haven't found it for less than $400 shipped, however, and I'd have to spend another $50 or so on hoses and fittings. So yes, I know it is a far superior system, but will I notice $300-ish in improvement? This is much more complicated than it needs to be.

What about the Grizzly G1028Z? It too is a 1.5 hp system rated at 1300 CFM, which is on sale for a shipped-price of $325.

Again, thanks for your insight/advice.

Mark

[Paul Wunder]

Mark,

Go to Tool King (can't post link) they have the Delta for $325 plus $9.95 shipping through April 30.

Mark, the advice heard most often on Sawmill Creek is to buy "once". You needn't get the best, but you need something that will work. The Delta comes with a five foot hose and clamps. Everything you need to hook up to one machine. Sorry to throw you a wrench. many of us learn the hard way by buying down and then having to buy up.

Grizzly makes good products but I am not familiar with the model that you asked about.

Once I get my Clearvue hooked up I will be selling my lightly used 50-760 with the Wynn cartridge conversion. I don't yet have a time frame and I am in Trumbull, Connecticut. I know you are down south so this is not an offer to sell.

Good luck in whatever you do.

Paul

[M Smith]

Mark,

Go to Tool King (can't post link) they have the Delta for $325 plus $9.95 shipping through April 30.

Mark, the advice heard most often on Sawmill Creek is to buy "once". You needn't get the best, but you need something that will work. The Delta comes with a five foot hose and clamps. Everything you need to hook up to one machine. Sorry to throw you a wrench. many of us learn the hard way by buying down and then having to buy up.

Grizzly makes good products but I am not familiar with the model that you asked about.

Once I get my Clearvue hooked up I will be selling my lightly used 50-760 with the Wynn cartridge conversion. I don't yet have a time frame and I am in Trumbull, Connecticut. I know you are down south so this is not an offer to sell.

Good luck in whatever you do.

Paul
Paul,

Okay, the Tool King price is a pretty compelling deal. Decisions, decisions. Will the Delta 50-760 work well enough out of the box, or does it need new bags, etc. to be effective? I know one can always upgrade, but out of the box is it "good enough?"

Thanks!
Mark

[Paul Wunder]

Mark,

You do not need to upgrade to a cartridge. The Delta comes with 1 micron filter (very few bag types do) which is the best you can expect from any bag collector. It will serve you well as delivered and give you enough power for all of your stated tools. Bags do clog easily as others have stated, so they require some upkeep. Cartridges, good ones, will maintain good airspeed for a longer period, so many people upgrade. I have lung problems, so my particular situation caused me to upgrade to a cyclone, but you will do fine.

[Curt Harms]

I haven't had a separate bin but especially if you go with the 650 CFM ish machines I think performance would be pretty marginal. I just finished a Thien baffle in a PSI DC2 and haven't used it enough yet to pass judgment but so far it looks very interesting. Mine sets up a tight cyclone about a foot or less above the bottom of the bag and nothing swirls horizontally or up like it did pre-Thien baffle. The reasons to go with a separate pre-separator are


keep big chunks and metal out of the impeller. A Thien baffle won't help with this
keep dust and chips out of the filter, be it bag or cartridge. It looks like based on my very limited experience so far that the Thien baffle will go a long way to help here and with very little performance hit.

HTH

Curt

[Bill Blackburn]

They correct on what they saying on the Delta. Okay - so are you upping the anty on what you want to spend? Then the rules have changed :D

I'd look at the Delta too. Or if you can change out a breaker/feed easy enough I'd personally take the PennState 2hp over the Delta myself. Golly - that's exactly what I did at that. Too many choices at the low $300 and up range but the 3 that I always seem to hear rate right there at the top are the Grizzly, the Delta and the PennState. I didn't quite understand some things in the way they rate the buggers since the Penn seemed to have more power than the Delta, was cheaper, and didn't get top gun the draw. The 2hp 220a req. may have been the reason?

Any of these 3. Or what you had been looking at. Or the HarborFreight 2hp.

You can easily spend the rest of your life being confused on this stuff and searching for the optimum deal. Then go to buy and someone else came out with a new Hot Rod that is even better. Yessireee - it is overwhelming. I also think it might be a bit over done also. Don't have a stroke over the decision my friend - it is not worth it;)

[M Smith]

They correct on what they saying on the Delta. Okay - so are you upping the anty on what you want to spend? Then the rules have changed :D

I'd look at the Delta too. Or if you can change out a breaker/feed easy enough I'd personally take the PennState 2hp over the Delta myself. Golly - that's exactly what I did at that. Too many choices at the low $300 and up range but the 3 that I always seem to hear rate right there at the top are the Grizzly, the Delta and the PennState. I didn't quite understand some things in the way they rate the buggers since the Penn seemed to have more power than the Delta, was cheaper, and didn't get top gun the draw. The 2hp 220a req. may have been the reason?

Any of these 3. Or what you had been looking at. Or the HarborFreight 2hp.

You can easily spend the rest of your life being confused on this stuff and searching for the optimum deal. Then go to buy and someone else came out with a new Hot Rod that is even better. Yessireee - it is overwhelming. I also think it might be a bit over done also. Don't have a stroke over the decision my friend - it is not worth it;)
Well, actually, I am somewhat forced to up the anty. Turns out someone was faster than I was at snagging that DC that I posted a picture of. Lesson learned -- when someone say's they'll hold something for me, they mean they'll hold it only until someone else shows up with cash.

Kind of back to square one. I'm seriously considering the Delta 50-760 from Tool King. Also considering the Grizzly G1028Z. They both look like about the same systems although the Delta has a 1 micron bag and the Grizzly has a 2.5 micron bag. I'm willing to look past that if I'm convinced the Grizzly is overall a better machine.

[Bill Blackburn]

That I can't answer with certainty. If the prices are close and fit and 110a is the ticket in the shop for available outlets I think of the 2 referenced the Delta would be my choice on bags alone. I am pretty sure the cfm's were close between the 2. Others I bet can assist more on this - I tossed the mags that did comaparisions when I bought the PennState unfortunately.

That's a shame on that CL system - bargains don't last long. I hear more and more that even if they do hold something it's starting to sound like an auction with others offering more on the phone to mess up a deal.
I'm real cycniacl when it comes to CL and people committing to something.
Sorry to hear that one got away from you.

The price at Tool King is great for that unit......shipping next to nothing. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Ends soon. ;-)