Saw stop anacdote

[Peter Quinn]

My boss has a lumber yard as part of his millwork operation and sells a variety of hardwood and plywood to a pretty diverse community of professional wood workers and avid hobbyists. One customer recently got a saw stop cabinet saw for his shop and fired the break on accident when his tape measure contacted the spinning blade. He brought the brake and blade assembly now fused as one to leave as a display for other wood workers to see and examine. It had stopped the blade one tooth away from the one that contacted the tape; you could tell by the chip in that one tooth. Pretty impressive in person.

So, I'm looking at the blade with another guy from work, and another long time customer who was in buying wood joins in. He's a professional stair case maker. We discussed the price of the saw, the cost of the break replacement, the cost of repairing a severed finger. The gentleman that joined in held up his right hand and said in all seriousness, "Where the HELL was that in 1980 when I did this?" He had cut off all of his index finger, half of the next two and some of the last two. The surgeons had done an admirable job of recreating something resembling a hand from what must have been left after his accident.

When we considered the price he mused "So the saw is about $4000, the break firing costs you around $200 with a new blade, this hand cost me $65,000 in 1980.....that saw doesn't sound that expensive to me!"

We don't have any saw stops at work, and after seeing that guys had close up I sure did work extra careful this afternoon.

[Harvey Ghesser]

But fortunately, it wasn't my finger that activated the break. It was a staple. I was ripping 2X4s for some shop shelving and wham! I didn't even think about those little sons of bees that the suppliers use to attache bar codes!

Spoke with "Gretchen" at Sawstop and she said that normally staples and nails don't cause the brake to engage unless a spark was sensed.

Kinda glad it happened that way!:)

Happy woodworking to all!

Harv

[Karl Brogger]

So instead of me posting something negative, I'll try a different approach.

What could he, (or anyone for that matter), have done differently to avoid what ever hurt him?

[back to negative] whew, I was getting light headed for a second there....

I know every single accident I've had, from stubbing a toe, to trying to remove my thumb with a band saw was because I had my head somewhere dark and stinky. BTW- 11 years, one (1) work related trip for stitches, probably could've gotten stitched up a few other times from work accrued accidents though.:o

You know what haunts me? Pnuematic clamps. A wholly uncomplicated procedure, but I've mashed my hand or a few digits in ever single one. From the hold down ram on a Castle machine, to door clamps, drawer clamps, coping clamps, you name it. If it moves by air, sooner or later I'm sure to stick my dumb ass hand in there. Door clamp hurt the worst. I almost puked it hurt so bad. The point is, you can't fix stupid.

My worst nightmare is this stuff becoming Federally mandated equipment on everything becomes someone pays someone else off.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Karl,

After the last SawStop thread (you know, 2 or 3 hours ago? :)), I was thinking about your arguments. You make an excellent point (as usual) that all hand-saw-contact accidents are caused by "stupid" (and you're absolutely correct).

I try very hard to avoid "stupid", using push sticks, hold-downs, featherboards, etc. But I can't absolutely guarantee that I won't someday make a mistake (I'm not perfect). So I think a SawStop would be good insurance against that one stupid mistake I make. SawStop isn't a substitute for good practice, it's an absolute-last safety net for one stupid mistake.

However, I think an argument could be made that the chances of hurting yourself on a TS if you are properly using pushsticks/hold-downs/etc are VERY low. Perhaps they're so low that it's not worth worrying about. Maybe the chances of getting mauled by a rabid monkey walking past your shop are greater, and instead of spending $3k on a SawStop, you should spend $3k on anti-monkey fencing.

I don't know what the actual odds are (obviously). But I suppose that's a decision each person needs to make for themselves. I'd buy the Saw, personally, but that's just me.

I really doubt this will ever be required equipment on every saw, and even if it is, the used market will offer plenty of saws for purchase by those who don't want it for the rest of any of our lives. So don't worry about it :)

Anyhow, back to the OP. Interesting anecdote. Although I believe the gentleman in question sounds like he originally had 6 fingers on that hand? :D

[Peter Quinn]

Karl,
Anyhow, back to the OP. Interesting anecdote. Although I believe the gentleman in question sounds like he originally had 6 fingers on that hand? :D

You make a good point Dan.:D He in fact had a rather short and misshapen thumb, a very small index finger, and three rather crooked fingers there after. I counted at least 4 1/2 fingers but admittedly not 6 as previously stated. OOPS. Or maybe those doctors got excited and returned more than he lost?

I'm in the same camp as Karl relative to TS accidents. Most boil down to operator error, HIA complex (head in....), or bad technique. Course some kickbacks happen so fast and pull the back end of the board in as the top comes up and over that stupid or not there is no time to react. I'm not going to sell my saw and buy a saw stop soon, but if I were buying a new saw it would certainly be high on my list of desired features.

[Mike Henderson]

If I had the money, I'd buy one today. I'm careful but I can make mistakes (just ask my wife). I'd rather keep my hands and fingers for the rest of my life.

Mike

[mreza Salav]

I cannot understand how some people can claim they do not make mistakes.
We as humans make mistakes at one point or another; that doesn't make us "stupid". Not planing for when (not "if") we make a mistake might be stupid.

This brake thing is just for that case where we happen to have one of those moments. We can be all super-careful as we want. It's good to have a second layer of protection in case....

I don't mean everybody should go and sell their saws and buy this one.
But it's great to have this option for those who are considering buying a new saw.

[J.R. Rutter]

You know what haunts me? Pnuematic clamps. A wholly uncomplicated procedure, but I've mashed my hand or a few digits in ever single one. From the hold down ram on a Castle machine, to door clamps, drawer clamps, coping clamps, you name it. If it moves by air, sooner or later I'm sure to stick my dumb ass hand in there. Door clamp hurt the worst. I almost puked it hurt so bad.

I'm with you on that one, funny how that lesson doesn't transfer from machine to machine. I have a nicely colored pinky nail from my door clamp a week ago!

[J.R. Rutter]

Since I'm the one paying workman's comp (or L&I as it is called here) I ponied up for a SawStop last summer for my shop. I've never had a TS accident, but when you are responsible for someone else it becomes an easy decision...

[Karl Brogger]

I'm with you on that one, funny how that lesson doesn't transfer from machine to machine. I have a nicely colored pinky nail from my door clamp a week ago!

I was running a set of split panel doors and had three of the rams going. It was the peg-hole style door clamp. Stuck my hand on the door edge just above the center rail while looking around on the floor for the pedal. Tore the skin off the entire side of my hand. It didn't go deep enough for much blood, but man did that hurt!

I do so many things that are just blaphemy on this forum. I also rarely use a push stick. I don't like having to hang onto a piece of wood, with another one. I'll feel safe ripping down to 1" and having just my thumb and forefinger holding the piece and the other fingers clutching the top of the fence. If something goes wrong I stop forward movement and kill the blade, or if things are going really wrong, I expect I'll just lift a thumb and let the piece come whipping out of the saw. I know full well what the consequences of introducing something that is 80% water to a sharp, rotating conglomeration of steel/carbide. For rips that are less than 1" my fingers don't go anywhere near the blade. I cut half way, flip the piece end for end to finish the cut, then lift the handle on the fence and move it over to get the piece out.

I don't think adding a piece of safety equipment when needed is a bad thing, but this far less of a requirement than having a brain, and using it. Or more importantly just not losing repect for the fact you are a heck of alot softer than wood.

[Bill Keehn]

Karl,
After the last SawStop thread (you know, 2 or 3 hours ago? :)), I was thinking about your arguments. You make an excellent point (as usual) that all hand-saw-contact accidents are caused by "stupid" (and you're absolutely correct).


Actually, when I was shopping for my first cabinet saw a couple years ago, I discovered the Sawstop at Woodcraft on my first visit there. As I stood there watching the video and they got to the part where they were showing what a typical tablesaw injury looks like, the old-timer standing next to me hold out his hand and says I could have used that. Another guy standing on the other side said "me too". They both had the same injury, across the right hand.

A third old-timer standing nearby said that it would probably have saved him too. He held up his left hand and showed me an injury that didn't match the others. He explained that he was done making his cut and was leaning over to shut off his saw. He lost his footing on a bit of sawdust and tried to catch himself with his left hand on the table, but it slipped into the blade. That's the story that convinced me to buy one.

While I agree that many many accidents are avoidable by exercising appropriate caution, there is just no humanly possible way to anticipate every way in which you can be injured. While there are still countless ways to be injured in my shop (or kitchen or bathroom for that matter), I feel a little better knowing I've done what I can to mitigate the most efficient way of being maimed that I'm aware of.

While I can't stand government interference, if it weren't for the un-necessary interference of government sanctioned monopolies (patents), all other saw manufacturers would already have their own versions of the Sawstop brake on the market, because it is clearly a competitive advantage. No other manufacturer is likely to license the technology from the market leader because any competitive advantage against Sawstop is eliminated by the licensing fees. In the meantime it would put them at a price disadvantage with their other competitors. No manufacturer would do it until they all have to do it.

Personally I think the manufacturers should get a tax break for doing it. Just think of all the tax dollars that could be saved by not having to pay the Medicare bills of all those maimed retirees. I don't know if consumers would get any break on their home-owners and/or health insurance, but it's only a matter of time before you will have to start paying more if they find out you have a saw without an available safety feature.

[Peter Quinn]

We only have a few pneumatic clamps in the shop, and I have managed to lower each onto my hand at least once. The pistons on the three spindle doweling machine sure pack a punch, and have what seems like a real long release cycle when your had is clamped under it.:D

Is it true Saw Stop is working on a bandsaw?

[Casey Gooding]

They guy I share a shop with has tripped ours twice. Once on a brad, once on a screw.
Luckily, he pays for the new brakes and blades.

[Scott Wigginton]

Is it true Saw Stop is working on a bandsaw?

Here is their page of future products (http://www.sawstop.com/future/future_home.php)


These prototypes are shown for demonstration purposes only and are not available for sale. SawStop has not established any immediate plans including a production schedule for a standard release of these potential products at this time.