Powermatic PM2700 Shaper

[Charlie Plesums]

I have been looking at pictures and specs on the Powermatic PM2700 5 hp shaper, but haven't seen one in real life. Has anyone used one? If so, what do you think of it? Pros, cons, etc.

[Joe Jensen]

have the older model 26 shaper. Mine was sold with 3 or 5HP, and interchangeable 1/2", 3/4" and router bit spindles. Or with a solid 1" spindle, or with a solide 1 1/4" spindle. I ordered mine new in 1990 with the interchangeable spindles. The model 27 came out shortly after I got my model 26. The model 27 has the same mechanism underneath (plenty heavy) and a larger table. Nice machine. I think the model 27 was around $2900 last I saw.

If I were just starting with a shaper, I'd get a 1 1/4" spindle as there are tons of used cheap pro shaper cutters out there. Also, in my experience the shaper cutters are cheaper. I picked up a new spindle assembly for mine with the 1 1/4" solid spindle with plans/hopes of picking up a bunch of cheap cutters. So far I haven't taken the plunge on the cutters yet.

[Jay Brewer]

Ive had that exact shaper for about two years now. I keep it set up with a raised panel and back cutter which I run in a single pass. It performs flawlessly.

Anything specific you would like to know?

[Joe Jensen]

have the older model 26 shaper. Mine was sold with 3 or 5HP, and interchangeable 1/2", 3/4" and router bit spindles. Or with a solid 1" spindle, or with a solide 1 1/4" spindle. I ordered mine new in 1990 with the interchangeable spindles. The model 27 came out shortly after I got my model 26. The model 27 has the same mechanism underneath (plenty heavy) and a larger table. Nice machine. I think the model 27 was around $2900 last I saw.

If I were just starting with a shaper, I'd get a 1 1/4" spindle as there are tons of used cheap pro shaper cutters out there. Also, in my experience the shaper cutters are cheaper. I picked up a new spindle assembly for mine with the 1 1/4" solid spindle with plans/hopes of picking up a bunch of cheap cutters. So far I haven't taken the plunge on the cutters yet.

Never mind, I'm an idiot. I thought you said PM27. I have no experience with the newer one except the fence looks fantastic, I have envy...joe

[Peter Quinn]

Ive had that exact shaper for about two years now. I keep it set up with a raised panel and back cutter which I run in a single pass. It performs flawlessly.

Anything specific you would like to know?

Don't mean to hijack, but as long as you're asking, how is the fence to adjust for various setups, or maybe you don't move it much for panel raising? Does the digital spindle height work as well as PM suggests it does, and how do you find the dual port dust collection set up. Any improvement over the typical PM27 or similar shaper set up? And does the mobile base work smoothly in practice? I've been looking real closely at that shaper on line myself as a consideration this year or next, but they never let you fire one up in the store anyway!

[Jay Brewer]

Don't mean to hijack, but as long as you're asking, how is the fence to adjust for various setups, or maybe you don't move it much for panel raising? Does the digital spindle height work as well as PM suggests it does, and how do you find the dual port dust collection set up. Any improvement over the typical PM27 or similar shaper set up? And does the mobile base work smoothly in practice? I've been looking real closely at that shaper on line myself as a consideration this year or next, but they never let you fire one up in the store anyway!

Hi Peter, the fence is nice, it took some patients to get the two halves inline with each other, after that it has performed well.

The DRO is dead on, until I bought height matched RP cutters, I was writing the heights down for the different cutters, with the DRO I could go back to the same height with each cutter. I never move it now, just drop in a different cutter and go to work.

The dust collection was very good until I started running the RP cutter on top with a sacrificial fence cut away by the cutter. I think I will disconnect the lower port a build a new one that collects right at the cutter.

The built in mobile base is great, the machine moves in any direction, unlike some bolt on mobile bases and can be moved with one hand. I dont move it anymore because I bolted it to a larger Felder shaper and they share the same feeded.

All in all, I think it was worth the price.I will be buying 2 more shapers this year ( 6 total ). I will probably buy something a little cheaper just because I dont need that much shaper for things like door edge cutters.

Hopefully, this answered some of your questions

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Charlie,
Keep in mind that all shapers with 1 1/4" spindles are not created equal. Whether 3 or 5 hp, the limiting factors are the maximum diameter cutter that machine can handle as well as the spindle travel. I see lots of great deals on cutters with a 7" or 8" major diameter that are just too big for any machines except real industrial equipment. It's not a bad thing for an amateur woodworker to max out at 5 inches of diameter or so since an 8" cutter can seem really frightful to someone not used to shaping wood on an airplane propeller. Merely the sound of a large diameter raised panel cutter can cause chills.

fmr

[Karl Brogger]

The dust collection was very good until I started running the RP cutter on top with a sacrificial fence cut away by the cutter. I think I will disconnect the lower port a build a new one that collects right at the cutter.

Sorry for the hi-jack. A setup that I've used and like for running panels is to take a piece of melamine about the same size or a little bigger than the top of the shaper. Run a dado the full width of the piece lined up with about where it should be in line with the bearing on the cutter and drop another piece of melamine in the dado for the fence. (just measure from the front edge to the bearing). Next just pocket screw a box on with the cutter installed. I've found the tighter the things are around the cutter the better the dust collection works. You can make a port in the back and get things scary close if need be.

Its kind of a pain though if you change setups on that shaper frequently.


Stay away from those giant raised panel cutters. The tip speed is rediculous, and way too fast. I recently picked up a LRH insert cutter head for raised panels and that thing is the cat's pajamas.

[Tom Hintz]

I did an extended review of the PM2700, using it in my shop for nearly two years and have to agree that it is a super machine. The digital height readout is way more useful than I would have suspected and is dead-on accurate. I had the 5 HP version and even with major panel raising cutters, it had way more power than I needed. And, the fence is extremely flexible in terms of setup with micrometer-like adjustments that let the operator tweak it as needed for cuts made in either left-to-right or right-to-left directions.
I have a review with lots of photos and a video at the link below if that would help.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/pm2700rvu.html

[John Callahan]

Fwiw Jet has new shaper out in 3 hp and 5 hp versions. The fence appears similar if not the same as the PM2700. It doesn't have the digital readout or the cast iron base with integrated caster wheels but it is $800 less and has four speeds vs the two of the PM2700. No experience with either but thought it might be worth a look.

[Charlie Plesums]

Sorry I didn't give more background to help focus your replies... I have a five function combo machine that includes a 5 hp tilting shaper. When I got it, I didn't think I needed a shaper except I no longer had room for a router table. I have fallen in love with the shaper function.

The rumors about the nuisance of changeover time between functions on a combo are false - changeover is not a problem EXCEPT when I need full function on the shaper (not a problem running a router bit with pilot, but it takes quite a few minutes to set up the shaper hood/fence which probably weighs over 50 pounds.).

I have a power feeder, and was thinking of getting the $1000 adapter so it would be easy to use on the combo, and realized that I could get an additional shaper where I could mount my power feeder for "not much more" (okay, $3000, but consider the value of a separate shaper). If I need "fancy" shaper function such as the sliding table or tilting spindle, I have that on the combo with those functions (don't need the Powermatic TS29), but 95% of the time I could use a simpler shaper (if you can call the PM2700 simple).

I have become addicted to the digital height readout on the shaper spindle. It is a huge help. So one of my concerns (answered, thank you) was how accurate the DRO is on the PM2700.

I have built a collection of shaper cutters... originally buying 3/4 inch cutters because they were slightly cheaper, and gradually moving to 1 1/4 inch and upgrading, until my current cabinet door set cost $1700 (and was a good investment). But I need multiple spindles.

Although I have four speeds now, I have never used the lowest speed, and expect that I could be satisfied with two speeds... more comments on speed of the PM2700 are welcome.

My 1 1/4 inch shaper spindle has the router collet on the top, so the overall height under nut is only around 3 inches. When I am doing pattern work (using my Shelix cutter on the shaper), I have to mount the bearing on the bottom... even though sometimes I would prefer it on the top. Bottom line, more height under nut would be good (the PM2700 claims 6 inches on the 1 1/4 spindle). I don't have room under nut to stack my good cutters, but I did with some of my 3/4 inch cutters, and just cranked height on the DRO rather than changing the cutters.

The precision adjustment of the fence is something I have come to enjoy, and the PM2700 looks like it has good fence adjustment. I think that has been confirmed, but I welcome more comments.

I still don't have a router table (I will have fun finding room for the shaper), so the ease of switching to the router spindle is still an open question.

My combo has a very robust shaper... the support and bearings are huge, and are attached to the monster combo (weighs over a ton), so there is never a question about wobble or vibration. I think the robustness of the PM2700 has been answered, but I welcome more comments.

Hopefully I have done a better job listing my concerns, but if I have missed something, please help!

[Charlie Plesums]

I did an extended review of the PM2700, using it in my shop for nearly two years and have to agree that it is a super machine. The digital height readout is way more useful than I would have suspected and is dead-on accurate. I had the 5 HP version and even with major panel raising cutters, it had way more power than I needed. And, the fence is extremely flexible in terms of setup with micrometer-like adjustments that let the operator tweak it as needed for cuts made in either left-to-right or right-to-left directions.
I have a review with lots of photos and a video at the link below if that would help.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/pm2700rvu.html

Your review was great ... really helpful and informative. Thanks.

But one question... if you really used it for two years, how did you get it so clean for the photos and video? :rolleyes:

[Tom Hintz]

Your review was great ... really helpful and informative. Thanks.

But one question... if you really used it for two years, how did you get it so clean for the photos and video? :rolleyes:

I keep all of my machines clean from day one, when many of those photos were taken. I normally shoot a bunch of the still photos when the machine is new, shoot more relating to usage along the way and then do the video last. (usually) But, I keep it clean and pretty throughout. When I have that kind of money in things, I tend to pay attention to upkeep......

[Peter Quinn]

One more question to Jay. Tom, or any other PM2000 users that know, about the fence/tube arrangement. Does this fence and hood assembly guarantee the fence plates remain parallel to the miter slot over its range of movement? I have not seen this issue addressed in any literature or reviews on this machine.

I checked out a Felder shaper at an industrial show last year, it had an Aigner type fence on it, and one of the features I found most precious was a set of index pins that maintained the position of the fence plates precisely parallel to the sliding table regardless of how far forward/backward the hood was moved. Setting a typical shaper fence precisely parallel to the miter slot or sliding table is one of the most annoying tasks I can think of, not sure why this problem has not addressed with most shapers.

Thanks again for all your information.

[Jay Brewer]

One more question to Jay. Tom, or any other PM2000 users that know, about the fence/tube arrangement. Does this fence and hood assembly guarantee the fence plates remain parallel to the miter slot over its range of movement? I have not seen this issue addressed in any literature or reviews on this machine.

I checked out a Felder shaper at an industrial show last year, it had an Aigner type fence on it, and one of the features I found most precious was a set of index pins that maintained the position of the fence plates precisely parallel to the sliding table regardless of how far forward/backward the hood was moved. Setting a typical shaper fence precisely parallel to the miter slot or sliding table is one of the most annoying tasks I can think of, not sure why this problem has not addressed with most shapers.

Thanks again for all your information.


Hi Peter, the sliding tube does a decent job but no, it does not keep the fence exactly parallel with the miter slot, there is enough play to in the tube and yoke that it can be out.

I also own the Felder shaper you are talking about. The fence is made by Felder ( the best non electronic fence I have used ). The fence plates were made by Aigner if they had the adjustable fingers. Even with the index pins it does not guarantee EXACT parallelism with the sliding table.Im talking a few thousands, but it is enough to bind your piece if it is clamped down to the sliding table.

This is why I dont use the sliding table very much. I find it much easier to use jigs that follow the fence. Aigner makes a couple nice ones.

Hope this helps.

[Joe Jensen]

One more question to Jay. Tom, or any other PM2000 users that know, about the fence/tube arrangement. Does this fence and hood assembly guarantee the fence plates remain parallel to the miter slot over its range of movement? I have not seen this issue addressed in any literature or reviews on this machine.

I checked out a Felder shaper at an industrial show last year, it had an Aigner type fence on it, and one of the features I found most precious was a set of index pins that maintained the position of the fence plates precisely parallel to the sliding table regardless of how far forward/backward the hood was moved. Setting a typical shaper fence precisely parallel to the miter slot or sliding table is one of the most annoying tasks I can think of, not sure why this problem has not addressed with most shapers.

Thanks again for all your information.

Peter, what do you want to do that requires the fence to stay parallel with the miter slot? I haven't even worried about it in 20 years of shaper use...joe

[Jeff Duncan]

I'm with Joe on this one, I don't use the miter slot nor do I find myself needing to have my fences parallel to it.
Of course if you want a fence that remains perfectly parallel you can take a look at the SCMI T130 class shapers like JR has. Course when you see the price tag I think that feature will become far less of a concern:D
good luck,
JeffD

[J.R. Rutter]

Digital height gauges on a shaper are a near necessity if you change cutters and come back to the same cuts over and over. I retrofit a few ProScales into various shapers that I had. Highly recommended. Keep track of spacers (if any) below the cutter and keep a log of heights for various cuts.

I really like the fence setup on my SCMI. It has a precision pivot at one end, a stop hanging down off the back that registers on the back of the table, and a tapered screw pin on the free swinging side. You can swing it away fro freehand work, and swing it back into exact position afterwards. Each fence half has mechanical digital readouts and handwheel adjustment for repeatability. I saw a similar MiniMax fence on eBay a couple of months ago and almost bought it before I remembered that I don't have anything o put it on ;-)

[Peter Quinn]

Thanks for the responses. I presently use a shop made coping sled that rides in the miter slot for coping door parts up to 1 3/4" thickness. I use the infeed fence as the reference for depth stop and it really has to be pretty parallel to the miter slot to avoid binding up. This is really the only thing I need the fence/miter slot parallel for, but its sort of a pain to get it there when I need it.

Jay, thanks for the info, the Felder rep made it seem like that fence stayed parallel within pretty tight tolerances. I'd love to have a fence with two big pins to locate the hood precisely relative to the miter slot and never have to fuss with this issue again.

[Jay Brewer]

Thanks for the responses. I presently use a shop made coping sled that rides in the miter slot for coping door parts up to 1 3/4" thickness. I use the infeed fence as the reference for depth stop and it really has to be pretty parallel to the miter slot to avoid binding up. This is really the only thing I need the fence/miter slot parallel for, but its sort of a pain to get it there when I need it.

Jay, thanks for the info, the Felder rep made it seem like that fence stayed parallel within pretty tight tolerances. I'd love to have a fence with two big pins to locate the hood precisely relative to the miter slot and never have to fuss with this issue again.

Peter, I used to use the Cope Crafter for all my copes. I had good luck setting the fence parallel and the right distance by using the wooden backer that is used to keep the cut from blowing out. Slide the jig back and forth in the slot and adjust the fence to it.

The Felder fence is a nice setup. What I think of as tight tolerances and a sales rep take on it is probably not the samehttp://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon10.gif. It only has to be out a couple thousands to make the work peice bind.

You could always step up to the class of shaper like JR's or a Martinhttp://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Peter Quinn]

You could always step up to the class of shaper like JR's or a Martinhttp://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

Yes Jay, but there would be no room to operate it effectively in the dog house in which I would then be living. Wife says something about not buying any more machines until I have billed enough shop time to pay for them? But maybe some day? In the mean time I can dream, and a PM2700 might come in $22,000 cheaper than a Martin if I can suffer the compromises. My wife loves a bargain!

Fence parallelism is something I would like to take seconds, not minutes. I have a quick jig in mind along the lines of a piece of MDF with a 3/4" dado 1/8" deep, a miter bar in that dado, rip the other edge parallel, use this as a gauge block against which to pull the fence while it is tightened.

[Jay Brewer]

We can dream cant we?:D. Your jig sound like it would be a fast and foolproof way to set the fence.

[Jeff Duncan]

I don't know if this will make your life easier, but I avoid using the miter slot all together. I made my coping sled so it rides against the fence itself. The rails are clamped aligning the parts to the end of the sled, so it's in the same position everytime and it doesn't rely on the fence being parallel to anything.

As for dreaming....I'm waiting for JR to upgrade to a Martin and put his SCM on the used market:D I could never justify the expense with the quantity of work I put out, but it sure would be a nice toy;)

JeffD

[Joe Jensen]

I don't know if this will make your life easier, but I avoid using the miter slot all together. I made my coping sled so it rides against the fence itself. The rails are clamped aligning the parts to the end of the sled, so it's in the same position everytime and it doesn't rely on the fence being parallel to anything.
JeffD

Same way I do it...joe

[J.R. Rutter]

JeffD and Joe - How do you guys get the fence aligned with the cutters for copes, assuming you evermove it?

[Joe Jensen]

JeffD and Joe - How do you guys get the fence aligned with the cutters for copes, assuming you evermove it?

I basically only use the shaper for doors. For copes;
1) Back off the outfeed fence
2) Extend the infeed fence too far forward
3) Put a steel rule on the infeed fence so it extends over the cutter that the point where the cutter would not be removing any material
4) Adjust the infeed until the steel rule just touches the cutter. I do this by gently rotating the cutter back and forth until it just kisses the steel rule
5) Rotate the cutter a little so the steel rule doesn't touch the cutter
6) Adjust the outfeed fence so it's in the same line as the infeed fence by bridging the steel rule between the fences.

Make sense?

[Erik Christensen]

I am considering either the Powermatic PM2700 or Grizzly G8621.

Both are 5HP 1 1/4" shapers and about the same price. I will add a power feed to whatever one I get.

So if you had to choose between digital height gauge or sliding table which one would you go for (green vs yellow paint aside)? My immediate need is for cabinet doors & drawers but as I have never owned a shaper not sure how I will use it down the road.

Thanks.

[Charlie Plesums]

The only thing I currently use my sliding table for on the shaper is the end of raised panels. The 21 inch travel on the Grizzly table seems pretty sparse... Larger doors have raised panels over 16 inches (allowing for starting the panel behind the cutter, and wanting to get past the cutter before removing the panel. On the PM2700 I expect to use the miter gauge to keep the panel perpendicular to the fence.

As several have suggested, getting the fence exactly parallel to the travel of the slider is difficult, so I like others usually use a jig against the fence, rather than the slider or miter fence.

I am not sure how a power feeder would work with the slider close to the cutter, like the Grizzly. I am also planning to use a power feeder with the PM2700.

I do make extensive use of the digital height readout. Great feature.

I don't have a separate router table, so the availability of a router spindle is important to me. I haven't asked Grizzly about router spindles on this machine, but their response on other Grizzly shapers was "who would want to do a dumb thing like that on a pro quality shaper?" Answer, I would, which is why I am looking elsewhere. Real men DO use router bits at times.

[Glenn Frazer]

Anybody that have a PM 2700 (preferably 5HP) care to comment on how they are holding up? Seems to be the best setup under $3500 (and it helps it is one machine that sells for the same price in Canada and the US without extra shipping costs

Glenn

[Chip Lindley]

...I avoid using the miter slot all together. I made my coping sled so it rides against the fence itself. The rails are clamped aligning the parts to the end of the sled, so it's in the same position everytime and it doesn't rely on the fence being parallel to anything.
JeffD

I fear than any coping operation that relies on the workpiece being held against a fence may suffer from being pushed out of perfect alignment by force of the cutter. Without a power feeder, the "armstrong" method would become tedious in a hurry!

A sled running in the miter slot provides perfect repeatability if the workpiece is held down securely. A reference point to index the workpiece is all that is needed. That could be a block clamped to the infeed fence, same as a tablesaw auxillary fence for duplicate cutoffs.

I find very little use for a split fence in shaper work. A big exception would be if used as a jointer. For straight raised panel work, a solid fence indexed to the depth of the cutter's rub collar serves to accurately guide the workpiece with, or without a power feeder.

Sticking of rails or running mouldings is best done using an outboard fence with power feeder or spring-loaded hold downs, insuring constant width of finished pieces.

[Charlie Plesums]

I got the 5 hp PM2700 and love it.

I use a jig against the fence for copes. I can align the fence to the miter slot, but normally don't bother... I rarely use the miter slot.

The fence adjustment is great. It is easy to offset the fences (like a jointer table) for cutters that remove wood across the entire surface (including the end of the tenon on cope cuts)

Dust collection is good - I only have a 2 hp dust collector sucking at the two ports, so more DC power would probably improve the collection from good to excellent

DRO is right on and VERY useful

The 1 1/4 spindle allows about 6 inches under nut. Powermatic recognized that was pretty high for the connection between the spindle and the machine, so provided an extra rod that screws in from the bottom to stiffen the connection. Not much of a hassle after you have done it a couple times, but a heavier joint between the machine and spindle would have been an easier solution to use. (My MiniMax spindle has a tapered connection over 3 inches tall, compared to the Powermatic about 1 1/2 inches tall.)

Do I need the full 5 hp? Probably not, but I have never been disappointed by too much power, and it is hard to increase if you start too small. I now have six 5 hp motors in my shop.

Sometimes I wish it had more than two speed choices, but it hasn't cramped my style yet. (If I had more choices, I am not sure how often I would actually change the speed!). Since I don't have a separate router table, sometimes I wish I could crank it up to 15,000 rpm or more.

Would I choose that machine again? In a heartbeat. A great investment.

[Paul McGaha]

Glad to see you happy with the shaper Charlie.

We lay out a fair amount of $$$ for these tools, It is good to see people happy with the purchase.

PHM

[David Nelson1]

Yes Jay, but there would be no room to operate it effectively in the dog house in which I would then be living. Wife says something about not buying any more machines until I have billed enough shop time to pay for them? But maybe some day? In the mean time I can dream, and a PM2700 might come in $22,000 cheaper than a Martin if I can suffer the compromises. My wife loves a bargain!

Fence parallelism is something I would like to take seconds, not minutes. I have a quick jig in mind along the lines of a piece of MDF with a 3/4" dado 1/8" deep, a miter bar in that dado, rip the other edge parallel, use this as a gauge block against which to pull the fence while it is tightened.

Hi Peter,
Did you ever build your jig? If so, how did it work and could you please post a photo?

Dave