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Anthony Scira
04-14-2009, 11:44 AM
I am not sure what this guy is trying to say with his dollar bill etchings. Not sure if I even like them.

But thought I would have to post it.

Talk about money to burn.

http://www.divinecaroline.com/article/22271/72017-art-dollar

Dan Hintz
04-14-2009, 12:07 PM
That depends on your interpretation of the appropriate code (US Code 18):

Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or lightened- Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

Notice the word "fraudulently". Since the money wasn't altered to make fraudulent use of it, it can be argued that it is acceptable... one could also bring up flag burning as a similar issue (free speech), and could even argue that the bill is no longer in circulation because of the defacement (ending in a world implosion due to the use of a circular argument). If the guy was etching an extra couple of zeros after the 1 and trying to buy groceries, that would be considered forgery and then you have a whole other ballgame.

If Disney can have hand-crank machines throughout their parks that flatten a penny into a souvenir with Daffy's face on the front and the Magic Kingdom on the back, I think this guy is safe.

Rick Gifford
04-14-2009, 12:17 PM
Its nice work... but done with a laser so the machine did the work.

The law on defacing money uses the word "fraudulently"

So I guess he would say it isnt fraudulant but artistic.

Dan Hintz
04-14-2009, 12:31 PM
Its nice work... but done with a laser so the machine did the work.
:eek:

And this is the point at which all of us laserheads ask you to pick up your ball and go play somewhere else ;)

kyle bonnell
04-14-2009, 2:20 PM
Its nice work... but done with a laser so the machine did the work.


This would be a great time for Lewis Black to have a word.

Stephen Beckham
04-14-2009, 2:45 PM
Makes me wonder why they say artists are poor?!?!

I'm in agreement with the flat penny comment, and can't see how this guy would be in violation of the federal law.

At least as long as none of that is stimulas money and he doesn't work for Wall Street.... I'm good with it....

lee maisel
04-14-2009, 3:33 PM
And if done with an exacto-knife, the blade did all the work.

Tim Bateson
04-14-2009, 3:48 PM
FINALLY - Someone found a way to add value to the dollar! :p Very creative and impressive.

Frank Corker
04-14-2009, 6:45 PM
Really nice work who ever did it

Bill Cunningham
04-14-2009, 9:43 PM
Boy!!! I wish I had money to burn!!:rolleyes:

art baylor
04-14-2009, 11:03 PM
I have to wonder what he charges for burnt money?

art

Roy Nicholson
04-15-2009, 6:42 AM
I'd be going for a Dollar Bill on top and blank paper for the rest fo the pad.


Regards


Roy N.

Jack Harper
04-15-2009, 12:46 PM
Actually, when you think about it, this just might be the perfect laser substrate. You can do all the testing you want and in the end you just send your bad tests and even your unsold inventory of completed pieces back to the treasury to get replaced for free. Of course this assumes enough of the bill remains, so you might want to keep the drop from the cuts.

Dan Hintz
04-15-2009, 2:19 PM
Jack,

I watched a show years back (10+) that was an "inside view" of that department. The time (and therefore money) spent replacing bills is insane... consider it a freebie from Uncle Sam paid for by our tax dollars. One case showed a shoebox full of bills rescued from a house fire. Most of the bills had 20-40% left, but because they could sort out enough of the serial # to make sure each bill was unique, they returned roughly 90% of what the guy claimed was in there. I'd say that's a serious winner of a situation!

Stephen Beckham
04-15-2009, 5:17 PM
Dan - here's another one for you... Got a buddy who works in a casino. Often they have to clean out those fountains of all the change. The money is basically dumped in dumpsters due to the corrosion. No bank or the Fed will take the change back due to the the corrosion.

I asked him to let me try and clean just a few coins to prove I could do it and then charge the company a % of the loot, but they're strict about dumping times and places as so family members or friends don't scarf up the coinage.

Christopher Scoggin
04-15-2009, 8:27 PM
I did some looking around it this is a question that seems to come up a fiar amount. There are apparently different rules for coinage as apposed to paper bills. The consensus appears to be that it is most certainly illegal but that as long as you are keeping it low key and low volume you are probably not ever going to get in trouble for it.

It appears there are two ways to get in trouble with bills. Fraud and defacing. The case described here would not be fraud as he is not creating fake bills or misrepresenting what the bills are (such as burning a couple extra zeros on your ones).

Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows:

Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.As these are cut, perforated and cemented together and they are no longer fit to be reissued, it would seem he is strictly vulnerable to a $100 fine and/or small jail time.

Dan Hintz
04-15-2009, 8:50 PM
Chris, isn't that what I said in the second post? :confused:

Tim Bateson
04-15-2009, 9:08 PM
That $100 fine is per bill & there appears to be a lot of them in each piece of art. However, I doubt that it could be enforced.

jim carter
04-15-2009, 9:15 PM
i know a rich guy that drilled pennies to use as washers because washers cost 2 cents

Christopher Scoggin
04-16-2009, 12:19 PM
Chris, isn't that what I said in the second post? :confused:
Going back and rereading is yes. I'm kinda an idiot :)
I think what happened is I pegged on the fraud part of your post and after looking into it there was a lot of talk about how fraud and defacing where covered under different parts of the law. It was also put out there that fraud was FAR more likely to be followed up on.

Bill Cunningham
04-16-2009, 10:38 PM
That depends on your interpretation of the appropriate code (US Code 18):


Notice the word "fraudulently". Since the money wasn't altered to make fraudulent use of it, it can be argued that it is acceptable... one could also bring up flag burning as a similar issue (free speech), and could even argue that the bill is no longer in circulation because of the defacement (ending in a world implosion due to the use of a circular argument). If the guy was etching an extra couple of zeros after the 1 and trying to buy groceries, that would be considered forgery and then you have a whole other ballgame.

If Disney can have hand-crank machines throughout their parks that flatten a penny into a souvenir with Daffy's face on the front and the Magic Kingdom on the back, I think this guy is safe.
[/I]

If Disney is using pennies, it's probably because their too cheap to buy the copper blanks these machines are designed to use. The higher class places in Niagara Falls (Butterfly Conservatory) for example use the proper blanks, while the cheap tourist traps on Clifton hill use U.S. Pennies, probably because they think using a Canadian penny will get them into trouble. Now that most pennies Canadian or U.S., aren't really made out of copper, they must get a pretty crappy looking Daffy Duck :)..

Rick Gifford
04-17-2009, 7:36 AM
:eek:

And this is the point at which all of us laserheads ask you to pick up your ball and go play somewhere else ;)


Aw now, that wasn't what I was trying to say. :) Sorry to offend any laser folks!

Dan Hintz
04-17-2009, 4:01 PM
Now that most pennies Canadian or U.S., aren't really made out of copper, they must get a pretty crappy looking Daffy Duck :)..
surprisingly enough, even squashed flat (usually into an ellipse), the copper color stays on the outside...

Niklas Bjornestal
04-17-2009, 4:15 PM
If Disney can have hand-crank machines throughout their parks that flatten a penny into a souvenir with Daffy's face on the front and the Magic Kingdom on the back, I think this guy is safe.
Does disney really use Daffy Duck?

Bill Cunningham
04-18-2009, 1:15 PM
Does disney really use Daffy Duck?

Hey!!your right.. Daffy has a contract with Warner Bros.. Boy, are they going to be P$$d at him! 'Donald' is probably calling his union right now :eek: