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Clyde Baumwell
04-13-2009, 9:11 AM
Hi all
Any suggestions as to where I might find useful information on creating 3D looking dimensional wood engraved illustrations on a ULS (older model)?

I tried searching the forum but the search engine on this forum is not very useful. If you enter 3D it is too short. If you enter 3D mode it returns hits that aren't what I am looking for or it removes the 3D term. Plus everytime you enter or revise your search, you have to put in the jumbled key letters, so it is kind of clunky. (I also tried searching for a discussion from a month ago about a colored auto wax product but the search engine discarded the word "wax"?)

Mike Null
04-13-2009, 9:39 AM
Clyde

I'm afraid I have to agree with respect to the search function. I've tried several combinations and turned up nothing.

If you look on the Epilog web site they have some interesting examples of 3d engraving and it's possible that ULS does as well.

The colored auto wax is Turtle Wax.

Clyde Baumwell
04-13-2009, 10:28 AM
Thanks Mike. I have been to the Epilog site and look at the examples. I was hoping for a more robust bit of information especially as it relates to the ULS. I have some tutorial info on the ULS 3D mode but it's not much help. I am actually not real clear about what it is that the 3D mode is supposed to do.

lee maisel
04-13-2009, 11:18 AM
Join the club. They are seemingly keeping it a big secret. I love the sample pictures, but there is little to no procedural information. I sent an email asking about it, and got information on the "3D look" on glass, etc.

I personally think that you need to use lower power than usual, 3D mode, and many many passes. I haven't had time to experiment, but I'm pretty sure that's how it's done..

George D Gabert
04-13-2009, 11:54 AM
There was some samples about dec 2008. The 3D is acheived by setting the gray gradient scale across an area of the part. The darker color burns deeper than the lighter color. It is my understanging it is done i one pass.

I think the reason most people do not 3D on laser is that it takes a lot of time, compared to milling or routing.

GDG

Keith Outten
04-13-2009, 12:25 PM
Use the Google Search in the drop down menu, it works well. Aaron is having problems with the vBulletin search function, we have overwhelmed it....or should I say outgrown it :)

3D engraving requires time consuming graphics work so I am told. There have not been many discussions about 3D engraving here because very few have the skills or the software to make it profitable.

The new Aspire 3D CNC software has a new feature that will create a 3D file from a bitmap graphic automatically. I have seen some pictures that were posted on Vectric's Forum of 3D laser engraved projects that were processed with Aspire and they looked great. Possbly one of our Members who owns Aspire would be willing to convert a file for one of our laser engravers as a test. All you can do is ask.
.

John W. Love
04-13-2009, 1:14 PM
yeah the 3D mode seems to be a bit of a well kept secret by the laser manufactureres. When I bought mine, the sales rep showed me an awesome picture done in 3D and told me it was one of the big $$ makers and that it was so simple to achieve these results and even better in no time. HAHAHAHA I read through the very short tutorial (one maybe two paragraphs) that they gave, which was basically nothing, tried it on some wood scraps, tried it on different wood scraps, tried it again and again, tweaking things only to find that mostly what I was creating was more wood scraps, only these new scraps were either charred, or looked like a regular picture. I am thoroughly convinced that you cannot create 3D pictures with a laser and that the whole concept is a conspiracy to make us use more laser time to burn out the laser tube quicker, thus creating more profit for them. ;)

Richard Rumancik
04-13-2009, 2:30 PM
. . .I am actually not real clear about what it is that the 3D mode is supposed to do. . .

It is supposed to make you so excited that you will buy the laser . . .

Seriously, what it is supposed to do is adjust the laser power on-the-fly so that darker areas burn deeper and lighter areas burn shallow. With normal raster engraving, you set the power/speed/ppi etc and every laser "dot" delivers the same energy to burn the material. In 3D mode, instead of being constant energy, the laser changes the energy for each dot based on the grayscale value of the "dot".

In some cases you can do a pseudo-3D effect using a grayscale image converted to black and white. Right now I am working on some mold cavities in rubber. I don't want a flat-bottomed mold which I would get with normal raster of a black shape. So I have created a greyscale shaded image but instead of using 3D mode I convert the grayscale to b/w in PhotoPaint using a Stuki conversion. This creates a simulated 3D effect because the dots that are closer together remove more material and hence burn deeper into the pocket.

In actual fact, I do one or two flat pocket passes first to get some depth, then follow it with the bitmap "3D" layer. (The same idea can be used to apply a background "texture" to a cavity or surface. A texture fill can be converted to a greyscale image and engraved as a 3D file. I have experimented with "stucco" and "concrete" type textures.)

I chose to do it in b/w because I find that running 3D mode and changing laser power on-the-fly increases the job time.

If you want to do artistic items, this method likely won't work well. However, as others have noted, you won't have any customers either once you find out how long it takes to run the 3D job so it is a moot point. I think it has applications for molds, but I don't know of any other applications that are financially viable.

Here's a LaserPro example if you haven't seen it.

http://www.laserproi.com/en/engr_showcase_detail.php?ID=English_040916193811

I have a few other images from GCC if you are interested.

John Noell
04-13-2009, 2:34 PM
Well, Epilog has a short tutorial on using the countour function in CorelDraw to modify objects (creating a grey scale variation across an object) so they come out in 3D. I tried it and it works pretty well. It took several rasterings to get good depth (and to get raised 3D you have to raster away the surrounding area/background). When I showed my sample to my wife she said, "Very cute. What in the world would you do with it?"

George D Gabert
04-13-2009, 4:26 PM
Here is a link to some past discussions on 3d http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=962306#poststop

Regards
GDG

David Fairfield
04-13-2009, 5:30 PM
I've gotten some fair to good results, I just use a grey scale and photo mode and various grey scale gradients in the graphic where I want the surface contours to change. After a while you can sort of eyeball what the results are gonna look like. Takes practice to do it that way.

There are some commercial graphics available for 3d art, eagles and horses sorta stuff if memory serves. They have a free demo you can try out.

One thing I've never quite figured out, is what the 3D mode in the Epilog driver is supposed to do. I can't adjust the power settings, only way to adjust the burn is with the grey scale on the graphic, regardles of what power settings I dial in. :confused: Seems pretty dumb to me. Need to try it on the new driver.

Dave

Clyde Baumwell
04-14-2009, 6:52 AM
George; Thanks for that link...it led me on an hour or so of reading and clicking and reading.

That Gantry Company had some useful information (woods to use, how to laser, etc.) and their files are pretty pricey but may be worth it. So far, I have learned that preparing a proper file is paramount, though I saw no discussion on how people have done this in photoshop which is the application I work in 90% of the time. The file prep would seem a natural for photoshop. Also, multiple passes are obviously essential.

This is a "for the fun of it" project so I will have to do it in my spare time (whatever that is?).

Neal Schlee
04-14-2009, 12:15 PM
Here's a quick 3D laser test. The design was created in Aspire to be cnc carved, see cribbage board, the grayscale was exported from Aspire V2 and lasered using a ULS 120 watt X2-660. With more experimentation, a more polished engraving could be created. Also, only Version 2 of Aspire will save grayscale bitmaps.

Neal
Lasertech Alaska