Need help - turning long small spindles

[Jim Underwood]

Lately I've been turning some long small spindles for baton shafts, and it's really difficult. I can't seem to get the hang of it either.

I'm turning very straight maple between centers, with light tailstock pressure. I rough it out using a 3/4 roughing gouge, and get it fairly thin - 5/8-1/2 inch, the then starting in the center turn it down to 3/16-1/8 inch, and work my way toward the tailstock and headstock. I use my fingers as a steady rest, but it's a long tedious process, and I never seem to reach that spot where it comes fairly easy. I use a lot of sandpaper when it's done too. I can do the 3/8-1/4 inch shaft for magic wands, but this really thin stuff has gotten my goat.

Any suggestions?:confused:

[Dewey Torres]

Jim,
If this works for you it will be the first time I (as a noob) have helped anyone with turning but I figure if I can do it you surely can so here is what worked for me.

Lay out a life size template and make marks every 3 inches down the length. Set your calipers for those widths at the marks and use the parting tool to cut down to them.

Then just remove the waste in between the parts made by the parting tool one at a time not worrying about the overall look. One by one it will take shape well enough for the 80 gt sandpaper to finish the job.

This is how I did the finials on my "8 black diamonds" (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=73&pictureid=1632) which was my first try at it (smaller version).

If the spindle is to be without a taper then you only need one caliper setting and no template of course.

Hope it helps

[Jim Underwood]

I guess I should mention that the total length on this baton is 14 inches. The handle is 2-3/4" so the shaft is 11-1/4 inches long (not including the 3/4 tenon).

That's a lot of whippy length at 1/8 to 3/16 diameter.

I'm not sure this would survive my parting tool down to that diameter in one spot much less several. The piece already tends to climb up on my big ole roughing gouge when making a slicing cut, not to mention a peeling cut a parting tool would make. Sorry Dewey.:o

[kenneth walker]

Jim go to this site it tells how to make a string steady rest you my need to make two.

http://www.woodturneddreams.com/C__Documents%20and%20Settings_Sean%20%20Troy_My%20 Documents_7.pdf

I hope it helps Ken.

[Curt Fuller]

Jim, probably every turner has their own bag of tricks so I'm sure you'll get a lot of suggestions. But whenever I've turned something long and thin I've found it easier to start by just getting it round like you mentioned. Then I work my may from the tailstock end back towards the headstock, turning to size as I go. I either use an end wrench or something similar to gauge the thickness as I go. But I've found that having more wood towards the drive end of the spindle seems to stabilize the spindle so it doesn't vibrate as much. I use a spindle gouge and cut just as if you were sharpening a pencil, cutting down hill. That angle cut along with using my fingers as a steady and having some solid wood to support the spindle from the drive end usually seems to do the trick.

[Jim Underwood]

Thanks for the replies folks.

Curt, that's the way I turned the shafts for my magic wands, and they turned out ok. Maybe I need to try that method again...

I picked up some waxed Linen cord from the WaldoMart this evening, we'll see if it helps when I rig up a string steady or not.

[Jim Sebring]

A famous box maker did a demonstration for our turning club a few months ago. He makes elegant long finials for his boxes that are very thin. He cuts those very small pieces of blackwood, etc. by putting them in tension between the headstock and tailstock. Penn State sells a Jacobs chuck with a bearing on a MT2 shaft that works well for grasping the tailstock end of the workpiece.

Another solution I've devised is to attach a Beall 1x8 collet chuck to the PSI 1x8 adapter on a MT2 shaft in the tailstock. I drilled and tapped the shaft on mine to accept a 1/4 x 20 drawbolt made from allthread. That keeps the tailstock end from coming loose when tension is applied to the workpiece. I tested this rig the other day with a piece of 1/2 inch dowel. I used my G3 chuck with pin jaws in the headstock. It worked like a charm - no need for a steady rest.

[Gordon Seto]

Turning something that slender is going to be a challenge. You need every help you can get. Other than the usual sharp tool, lathe speed high, you need your finger behind the spindle to support the cut. It is impossible to turn something so slender between centers. Enough tail stock pressure to drive the spindle would cause it to bow. String steadies, spindle under tension would also help. Instead of using a chuck, try jamming your spindle into the head stock Morse Taper, that is the most accurate method of chucking up a spindle. Without the big chuck body, you can work very close to headstock end of the spindle.
I use this home made string steady for the tail stock. I use hard maple for stem to insert into the Morse Taper of the tail stock. You need to wax the string prior to each use.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o83/gbseto/Tailstockstringsteady001.jpg
Turning Projects DVD by Richard Raffan has a demo on turning very slim and long. I think it will definitely help.

[Thom Sturgill]

Jim, lots of good advise here. I have made quite a few 'Majik Wands' in the last year, and I find that the European style gouge (http://www.dick.biz/medias/sys_master/701936V_01_P_WE_8.jpg) (wider and flatter than the other gouges, I got two as part of a set from HF) works the best for me. I've tried skews (and use them for the finish cut), detail and regular spindle gouges, and the 1/2" Euro seems to work the best. YMMV.

[Dale Miner]

A couple thoughts.

If you hold the stock at the headstock end in a chuck, you will gain some rigidity and vibration damping from the chuck.

If you have a large enough hole in your headstock, you can rough the piece to fit in the thru hole of the headstock, and incrementally pull if from the chuck and turn the diameter down, leaving the unturned portion in the headstock. When the short portion is finish turned, pull another short section out of the headstock and turn it down to finish diameter, repeat until the length you need is at the small diameter. As the length of the small diameter portion gets longer, it could be supported by a small wooden bushing fit into the tailstock with a hole slightly larger than the diameter of the piece.

Later,
Dale Miner

[jim carter]

i turned a golf T once. scale size for a friend who made a hole in 1. no where near as long as your wands but the thing i found when i got down below 3/16" is that i had to keep my tools extremely sharp [i touched up the edge every couple of passes ] and i barely touched the wood with each pass because even medium pressure made the wood flex badly.

[Bob Vavricka]

Jim,
This is how I made some batons for my son-in-law who is a band director. Perhaps this process will give you some ideas you can use for yours. I suspect the process I used for making the stick part of the baton may not count as turning, but it did work.
The pictures below shows the setup I used for making 12" batons. I cheated and started with 3/16" birch dowels. I used a Jacob's chuck to hold the dowel and the frame in the picture has a tapered groove that is 3/16" deep at the head stock end and about 3/32 at the other end. I cut the groove by taping a shim to one end and making a couple of passes on the table saw. I screwed a strip of wood on the bottom of the frame to keep it centered on the ways. The frame gives me continuous support along the entire length and I start with a block plane at a skewed angle to rough the dowel down close to the top of my support. The support works a a steady rest, depth gauge and tool rest. I suppose a skew might work for this cut, but I have never tried it.
Then I use my 100 grit gouge and a block of wood to make it level with the support. Then I take out the support and finish sanding it with the sandpaper on bottom and my fingers on top to support it. I also round the end with sandpaper. Once it is sanded to the grit I want, I place them in a 3/16 inch hole drilled in a block of wood (I usually do 6 at a time) and use rattle can white lacquer to spray them white with a quick trip back to the Jacob's chuck to sand between coats. I apply however may coats it takes to give me a smooth glossy look. I'll post a picture of a finished baton and how I do my handles in another post.

[Bob Vavricka]

To make the handle for my batons, I use a pin chuck I made from the shank of a long 3/16" diameter masonry drill bit and a small finish nail with the head cut off. I usually use a section of a pen blank with a blind 3/16" hole drilled in one end. The second picture shows a finished handle part way on the pin chuck which I hold in a Jacob's chuck. When the blank is all the way on, the nail does not show. I use the tail stock to support the end until I am ready to finish the end and sand. The last picture show a finished baton and some ready for assembly. I was told the baton should balance at the end of the handle so I use some small pieces of lead split shot to weight the handle if necessary and adjust the stick to make the baton the desired length. I glue the baton in the handle with a little epoxy glue. The baton stick on the far left is one I made from a 3/16 inch white fiberglass rod and it has become my favorite stir-stick for epoxy glue, etc.

[alex carey]

Bob, that is some good thinking you've done there, nice idea.

[Frank Kobilsek]

Jim,
I think it was the most recent issue of Woodturning Design Magazine that had a story on turning knitting needles. That process used a collet chuck. With only and inch or so extended from the chuck he turned. Then moved back tail center and advanced another inch, and so on until the full length was turned. This way he was turning close to the chuck and the piece was fairly well supported. Not a bad idea.
Frank

[Joshua Dinerstein]

Frank,

That is a pretty clever idea. Thanks for posting it. Definitely one to file away for the future...

Joshua