Memorial etching tips

[Brad Myers]

First of all, I'd like to introduce myself to the board. My company is a 4th generation monument retailer that has recently added a used Vytek laser etcher, and it will be used mainly for memorial work on black granite. I've been working with vector images for sandblast designs through Gerber Composer since the late 90's, but have had to learn raster editing on the fly. I'm currently using Photoshop Elements 5.0 and PhotoGrav 3.0. There was somewhat of a learning curve at first, but I'm now at the point where I'm happy with the results that I'm getting. I discovered this forum about a week ago and have been plowing through the old threads ever trying to pick up whatever tips I can find (the Armor All preparation for example). I'm asking if anyone has any tips or advice as it relates to monumental laser etching. Specifically . . .

1. What are you using to colorfill your etchings and how are you applying the color? I'm currently just brightening the etchings with white Vanson printing ink. The application is very simple but it does seem to lend itself to splotching in large white areas. Is lithochrome a better alternative? I've experimented with it somewhat, but have yet to have consistent results? Are you coloring yours at all? What all is involved is you attempt that? Also, do you seal afterwards and what do you use?

2. Does anyone have any recommendations or sources for building\purchasing a laser ready library? I currently have what Vytek offered and have looked at Design Mart's library but feel it's unimpressive and overpriced. What other choices are there?

Thank you for whatever help you can offer and here's hoping that I can become a productive, contributing member of the board.

[Mike Null]

Brad

Welcome to SMC. I've never purchased clipart but many on the forum have and seem to be satisfied.

As far as colorfill is concerned there doesn't seem to be a really good choice for granite and marble due to the shallowness of the engraving.

[Margaret Turco]

Hi Brad! Welcome to the creek. Where are you located? I can't offer help with the colorfill technique, but other members generously share files from time to time. Just use the search feature. I searched on memorial and found this recent thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=105312

[James Stokes]

For monuments the lithacrome does work better. I generally spray the whole thing then take a new razorblade and scrape off the excess. If you want to get in to full color color filling then you are talking a completely different process and much more time.

[Dee Gallo]

Welcome to the Creek, Brad!

You should check out Robert Gaunt's website, he has done a lot of nice memorials and might be a good resource for you to compare notes.

cheers, dee

[John W. Love]

Hi Brad, and welcome to THE CREEK! With Granite and Marble you will either love it or hate it. The main thing to remember is that both of these are natural products and therefore the material and results can be different from piece to piece even with the same file and settings. (As I am writing this, my wife, Alicia brought over a piece of granite that we are engraving on and I noticed that one piece out of the box had a larger crystal formation than the other pieces) As with any other endeaver, do it with passion, get over the frustrations as quick as possible and practice, practice, practice.

1. What are you using to colorfill your etchings and how are you applying the color?
For granite, if it is being kept indoors, we are using Grumbacher's titanium white oil artist paint. It gives a nice "pop" to the grayscale picture, but mostly gives the text a look that stands out from the black granite. At times we don't even apply it to the picture but merely to the text to allow that to stand out.
Initially we rubbed it on with a paper towel, but one of our resident professors here, Frank, Rodney or Bill suggested to squeegie it on. The squeegie method uses a fraction of the paint and achieves the same result, thereby saving $$. We leave it on for about 16-24 hours and then wipe it off.
We haven't been doing anything that would require it to be left outdoors so for that I am not sure what type of paint, however I have heard on here several times that Lithochrome ( I believe that is the one) is excellent for outdoor use and will last against the environments.
As far as sealant goes, for the indoor use we havent needed to use a sealant as what we have been selling are family photo's and rememberance plaques,and not doing work that would require sealants like countertops or flooring would. With what we are doing with the oil paint it merely requires just dusting off or at the most cleaning with a moist towel. Here is a good post that talks about sealants partly way through it. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1043577#post1043577


2. Does anyone have any recommendations or sources for building\purchasing a laser ready library?

When we purchased our laser, the guys at Sign Warehouse gave us about 10 cd's that contained graphics. Very few of those have I found useful. There are some corporate graphics on there, but most I have had to go in and clean up before I could even use them. The best source that I have found is right here. Just ask for a particular graphic and you will most likely be overwhelmed by the response. Also, just going through the threads there are tons of graphics already posted. If there is something I need I do a search in this forum first before asking. The threads with a paper clip on them means there is an attachment in that thread so that helps weed out a lot of threads when you are looking for graphics that have been posted.

Hope I have offered some useful information. Best overall advice I could offer to anyone is start at the beginning of this forum and just read and absorb everything untill you get to the most recent post, then do it again.

~John

[Paul Perkinson]

Hi Brad – welcome to the Creek! For memorials and monuments I stick with lithichrome whenever possible. The color selection is fair but you’re pretty much stuck with what they have. The colors do not blend at all on the work because drying time is nearly instant.
We use a mask for almost all lithichrome work and, depending on the specific project, sometimes vector the outlines, then weed, then raster (or sandblast), and sometimes we just raster. We make sure to get deep enough to keep the final surface of the lithichrome at least a hair below the surface of the stone.
We also selectively mask off different areas to apply different colors of lithichrome. If you must match a Pantone color, you’re out of luck. But if your customer is flexible on that shade of red or blue or whatever, lithichrome can do a nice job on simple, multi-colored shapes or patterns. Sometimes we engrave using separate files and separate masks for the different colors and sometimes we engrave once, with one mask, and just carefully tape over the areas not to be covered with the current color. Obviously, if you use separate masks and engraving files, you must have a consistent positioning and registration method on your engraver.
Absolute black, black galaxy, blue pearl, and a host of others work extremely well with lithichrome, but be aware that if the stone has components with any tendency to “flake” or “dust” or “chalk-off” it has been our experience that the lithichrome will adhere to those little particles that pop off and you can end up with a less than desirable end product. Unfortunately the 2 stones that really exhibited this the worst were provided by individuals who were unable to track down the specific types of the stones and we weren’t familiar with them either. Regular paint tends to bond not only to the surface it’s applied to, but also to other molecules of itself. Lithichrome is supposedly more of a stone “stain” than a paint and I’m guessing it bonds more loosely to itself than to the stone. Where regular paint might help hold those little crystals on by bonding to itself, the lithichrome won’t. Anyway… if we’re asked to do a stone that we don’t recognize for outdoor installation we insist on a sample piece to test. Just do a few simple letters or glyphs at approximately the largest size the project will call for, color with lithichrome, let sit for 24 hours (it dries almost instantly, but takes some time to cure) and then simply try to clean the stone with any stone cleaner and a cloth. If there are no obvious “chip-outs” you’re good to go.
You can get lithichrome in rattle cans, but application by airbrush is WAY more economical. We keep a couple of cans of Clear on hand to take on-site for cleanups and bi-annual maintenance (we don’t even advertise this, but we try to do it anyway – keeps our product looking great and is a real word-of-mouth boost when we email a picture of the newly cleaned up and protected product to the buyer when they weren’t expecting such service). Lithichrome solvent is an absolute must also. We thin down the first coat considerably with it and cleanup is tough enough WITH the solvent. I’m not even sure it would be possible without it. So, to re-cap, lithichrome is not my favorite product to work with but it’s not all that bad and here in the Florida sun I think it is the only thing that can be counted on for outdoor projects.
Coloring of photo-realistic artwork is an entirely different animal. There are many threads here on the Creek that discuss some of the methods you can try. My opinion is that you should try all of them and here’s why: it may be that none of them will turn out to be perfect for you, but as you try them you will be able to put together the tools, products, and methods that do work for you. And, like Edison, you will also know many combinations that need never be bothered with again. Be aware that sealing this type of work may prove to be the larger challenge in the end. Products that seal well may also react poorly with your color products or darken or mottle the artwork.
For a laser ready artwork library, well, that’s perhaps one of the toughest things there is. As others have correctly suggested, this forum is an unbelievable source of help. Frank, alone, has reportedly surpassed the U.S. Library of Congress’ collection of clip art and is one of the most giving and helpful individuals you’ll find anywhere. But here’s the problem (if I can properly sum it up) – telling people “I can engrave anything you can imagine” does next to no good at all. They’ll just blink and nod and their eyes will gloss over. If they could tell you EXACTLY what they wanted you could probably get your hands on something to work with. The problem is that 99.99999% of them can’t do that. They are relying on you to have something for them to flip through and choose from. They don’t know exactly what they want, but they’ll know it when they see it. I take it that that’s what you are looking for – that one-stop library of flip-through images that you can hand your prospective customer with an understanding smile and a helpful, “Of course, we can modify any of these to create exactly what you desire. Please ask any questions you’d like.” Well, if it exists, somebody has done an excellent job of hiding it from us. The best we have been able to do is put together, over several years, a bit of a collection. A CD here, a book there, an individual photo purchased from this place, some artwork that we’ve created thrown in back there, etc. It’s not close to perfect and it has been far more expensive than I would have believed at the beginning, but at least it is something we can put in their hands to get them started. That’s all I know to tell you to do – if I had better advice I’d take it.
Best of luck, Brad. After several years of this I still feel like a complete novice compared to Rodne and some of the others, but it is still as much fun as ever. I hope it can be as enjoyable to you.

[Brad Myers]

Thank you to all those who took the time to respond in this thread. Paul, you described exactly what I was looking for in a library. I've been in contact with the creator of this site, http://www.lasermemorialart.com (http://www.lasermemorialart.com/), and he said that he is in the process of coordinating the site to offer just that. When that would be completed, he couldn't say. I'm mostly interested in the fully realized plug-in scenes. I feel comfortable working with an individual picture or piece of clipart. Taking multiple images and piecing them together to form a coherent raster scene is another matter at moment. Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions and help.
(http://www.lasermemorialart.com/)