Need help on euro hinge options

[Andy Pratt]

I'm looking for the appropriate european style hinge (35mm socket) to allow the door to articulate fully out of the way of an inset drawer inside the cabinet.

I have the partial overlay blum hinges but I tested them out and they won't work, door doesn't swing out far enough and the drawers can't open. I'm guessing I need one of the 120 or 170 degree hinges. Anyone know what would be best? They're generally more expensive the higher you go it seems.

This cabinet does not have a face-frame and the door and side material thickness is 7/8" the door overlay is 3/8"-1/2"

Thanks,
Andy

[Jamie Buxton]

I'm pretty sure you can't get there. Blum does have something called a zero-protrusion hinge, which is aimed at exactly the problem you're encountering. However, it wants a 5/8" overlay. A good source for info is http://wwhardware.com/catalog.cfm/GroupID/Cabinet%20Hinges/CatID/Cabinet%20Hinges%2C%20Blum%26%23174%3B%20Concealed .

When you get to the page for a specific hinge (say, the 120 degree clip top), click on the Applications button to see the details of overlays and protrusions and such.

[Charlie Plesums]

The Blum zero protrusion hinges used to be 170 degree, but the last ones I got were 155 degree.

All the zero protrusion hinges I have seen were full overlay (5/8 to 3/4 inch) although you may be able to cheat it a little bit by putting the cup hole closer to the edge.

The overlay "concept" is that the door covers the edge of the cabinet, so full overlay is roughly 3/4" or 19 mm.

If you have a divider with doors on both sides, then the door can only overlay the divider by just under half the thickness of the divider, so you have a half overlay hinge. However, to allow both doors to at the same time, only half the thickness of the door can align with the cabinet side, with the rest protruding into the cabinet opening. Thus the half overlay hinges, when used as intended, "cannot" be zero protrusion.

[Mats Bengtsson]

The Blum zero protrusion hinges used to be 170 degree, but the last ones I got were 155 degree.

All the zero protrusion hinges I have seen were full overlay (5/8 to 3/4 inch) although you may be able to cheat it a little bit by putting the cup hole closer to the edge.

The overlay "concept" is that the door covers the edge of the cabinet, so full overlay is roughly 3/4" or 19 mm.

If you have a divider with doors on both sides, then the door can only overlay the divider by just under half the thickness of the divider, so you have a half overlay hinge. However, to allow both doors to at the same time, only half the thickness of the door can align with the cabinet side, with the rest protruding into the cabinet opening. Thus the half overlay hinges, when used as intended, "cannot" be zero protrusion.

The BLUM hinges are often sold "hinge and fastener" in the same packet. But BLUM manufacture a number of hinges, and a number of fasteners (the ones mounted to the side frame and not to the door), that often fit together.

so the selection process is first to decide mounting method (half or full coverage, outside or inside frame), then opening angle and then select the hinge to use. At this time, study BLUMs manuals which are awfully hard to understand the first couple of times, but when understood, very nice manuals.

They actually specify in table formats, depending on width of material, if the cup should be 3,4 or 5 mm from the end. Also, if your material is thicker than default, is is specified when you have to change fastener (this trick is the hardest to figure out since hinges often are sold together with default fasteners). There is maximum and minimum distances to place the cup from the side (minium for strength, maximum for being able to open the door). When you are outside that range, either switch to another fastener (D=3 or 6 or 9 instead of the standard D=0) or switch to a overlap hinge and one of the fasteners mentioned above.

When you change fastener, for example to D=3, it is simply thicker than the standard, thus moving the hinge further from the side, thus allowing the cup to come further from the edge of the door.

--- Mats ---

[Karl Brogger]

For roll out trays I always raise the bottom hinge to clear the drawer, and I typically put the top roll out in the middle of the door opening(or there about). Doesn't really work if its a super tall drawer though or if you want the top one all the way up.

Your next option is to build in the drawers. Make them skinnier(sp) so you have clearance on the hinge side.

I use the 170* too, just so the door can be swung totally out of the way, but they protrude even farther into the opening than a straight 120* hinge.

[Andy Pratt]

thanks for the help, I used some 170 degree ones from woodcraft and even at their full adjustment I still had to trim about 1/8" off of the door frame to let the drawers clear.

One thing I didn't make clear, part of the inside of the carcase has no drawers (the largest portion where both hinges are located in) so I didn't need to worry about the level of protrusion inside the cabinet

thanks,
andy

[David DeCristoforo]

Typically, pull out shelves or drawers that are behind doors require a 1/2" spacer on each "hinge side" between the cabinet side and the drawer glide. These can be made of wood or you can buy simple 1/2" plastic spacers. You almost always need the extra clearance regardless of the hinge swing or configuration.

[Charlie Plesums]

For roll out trays I always raise the bottom hinge to clear the drawer, and I typically put the top roll out in the middle of the door opening(or there about). Doesn't really work if its a super tall drawer though or if you want the top one all the way up.

Your next option is to build in the drawers. Make them skinnier(sp) so you have clearance on the hinge side.

I use the 170* too, just so the door can be swung totally out of the way, but they protrude even farther into the opening than a straight 120* hinge.

The zero protrusion hinges are very large, and take a lot of room in the cabinet, so the trays have to avoid hitting the hinge - I agree about having to raise the lower hinge to make room for the lower tray. However, I haven't had to make the trays narrower to clear the door. By Skinny, are you referring to the height of the tray, or the width?


thanks for the help, I used some 170 degree ones from woodcraft and even at their full adjustment I still had to trim about 1/8" off of the door frame to let the drawers clear.
...


If you are trimming off the door frame, I assume you are putting euro hinges on a face frame cabinet. I don't usually build face frame cabinets any more because I have to build out the sides to make room for drawers, etc. But I don't understand the need for an extra 1/8 inch trim.


Typically, pull out shelves or drawers that are behind doors require a 1/2" spacer on each "hinge side" between the cabinet side and the drawer glide. These can be made of wood or you can buy simple 1/2" plastic spacers. You almost always need the extra clearance regardless of the hinge swing or configuration.

David, are you using the zero protrusion hinges? The ones I get from Blum (the older ones were 165/170 degree, the ones I have gotten lately were 155 degree) move the door about 1/8 inch or more away from the opening (from the Blum catalog it sounds like it is moved far enough away so if you have to use the max adjustment, you still clear the opening). I have never used a spacer behind the drawer slides (on a frameless cabinet).

Why are we getting different results?

This link is to a web site that has the drawings (not where I buy my hinges)
http://www.scherrs.com/order_hardware/index.html?target=dept_blum155zeroprotrusion.html&lang=en-us

Some sites list this as a new hinge, since the clip-top is the 155 degree, the older 165 deg hinges were "slip on" that required a different mounting plate, with a screw to attach the hinge after it was "slipped on."

[David DeCristoforo]

"Why are we getting different results?"

You don't need spacers with that particular hinge. Even so, you are just barely clearing the door. Please note that I said "typically" when mentioning the use of spacers. I don't use the "zero protrusion" hinges for several reasons. For one thing, they cost more. Also, in most situations you don't need more than 120 degree hinges which are much smaller and (IMMHO) nicer looking than the 150 - 190 degree hinges which are much larger and bulkier. So we are not really getting "different results" because we are not doing things the exactly the same way.

[Karl Brogger]

By Skinny, are you referring to the height of the tray, or the width?


Width, like David is saying. The little mepla blocks, or just building out the opening a bit.