rift and qtr sawn white oak

[chris fox]

Hi all, I am looking into a desinging and building a built in - exposed shelves and lower shelves with doors - off our family room. I have used WO in the past and enjoyed working with it. My wife likes the cleaner modern lines in furniture like you see at www.Henrybuilt.com (http://www.Henrybuilt.com) or like some of the pieces that Mark Singer has made or has in some of the exotic homes.

So I found that Rift cut offers the more straight uniform grain lines with less fleck as seen with qtr sawn lumber which looks more busy/unique but comes off looking more Mission style? I have also read rift and qtr sawn is the same and have seen rift sawn veneer that looks like qtr dawn cut. I was also thinking of using ash which hasa similar color and straight lined grain. Which in this project would be vertical.

I am to rift veneer covered doors with qtr lumber frame. I cant find rfot lumber or ply here in Phoenix? Only rift veneer. Ideas? any pics of qtr sawn lumber with the straight lines I am looking for with out the noticeable flecking?

As always thanks in advance...
chris

[Gene Howe]

Hi Chris,
True rift sawn wood will have no medullary rays. Rift sawn red or white oak is very nice, IMO.
There is a place called "Timbers" (I think) in PHX. That might be able to help.
At any rate, rift or qtr sawing wastes a lot of wood. Consequently, it's more expensive. You might try Spellmans (on 43rd? near the fairgrounds). They'll let you pick your lumber. You can sort through and pick out the straight grained.
Even plain sawn logs will yield *some* straight grained pieces.
Same story with plywood. Just gotta search through the panels.
Good luck
PS I'm in Snowflake so don't know all the good lumber suppliers in PHX. There are a few guys on this forum from your area. Hope they see your post, too.

[chris fox]

Gene,
thanks for the clarification. I called Spellmans yesterday no luck. Havent been to Timbers yet - I will give them a try next week.
WWS has qtr saw for 8.99bf. I found a few boards having straight grain but not many out of the pile.

Chris

[Gene Howe]

Good God!!!!!!! $8.99 is outrageous.
I did our entire kitchen and baths with 1/4 sawn white oak and paid $4.57 a bf. Ordered it from MN. With shipping, I don't think it was over $5.00. Rift sawn would've been a little cheaper.
If you can wait for the shipping, try Woodfinders on the net.
With Spellman's, don't ask for rift sawn. Ya just gotta go and pick through their stuff.

[glenn bradley]

The quarters awn look is sought and if not desired, don't pay for it. As to the ash substitute, let me save you some pain. I recently made a pair of nightstands out of ash. The material worked fine but coloring was a nightmare.

There is so much yellow undertone that the usual colors go askew; mission brown turned green, reddish brown was REALLY red. Through a lot of testing I finally got this (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=113268&d=1237249664). I like the ask but next time I am going with a clear or slightly amber color.

[chris fox]

yep 8.99 was way my budget for this project.
I am leary of buying online - how do you know your getting good product thats not warped, checked, etc.? Do you recommended this supplier in MN or others?

[Gene Howe]

Wood finders is pretty thorough in checking out their suppliers.
I can't recommend the one I purchased from because he is a flooring guy who had the QSWO for a client who decided he didn't want QSWO after all. I can't imagine that it would be suitable for flooring, anyway. Hard as H*** but all those rays together on a floor. My eyes hurt thinking about it.
Some of the Wood finders suppliers have web sites where you can get some idea of their stock and talk/email with them.

[Peter Quinn]

Wood finders is pretty thorough in checking out their suppliers.
I can't recommend the one I purchased from because he is a flooring guy who had the QSWO for a client who decided he didn't want QSWO after all. I can't imagine that it would be suitable for flooring, anyway. Hard as H*** but all those rays together on a floor. My eyes hurt thinking about it.
Some of the Wood finders suppliers have web sites where you can get some idea of their stock and talk/email with them.

Actually my boss specializes in QSWO flooring and it makes one of the nicest floors I have seen. Just spectacular with a finish. And for a seven head through molder white oak is like milling butter. Now, bolivian rosewood or IPE is hard! Almost every Vanderbuilt mansion I have been to has QSWO mitered herringbone flooring in various applications throughout the residences, seems oak was in their family crest and played into their designs. Ages beautifully.

Oh, on the QS vrs RS thing, the packs we get are labeled as Rift and Quartered, and are not sorted. I think it costs more to buy straight quartered sawn. Both are considered vertical grain, but QS is nearly 90 degrees to the face where as rift is mostly 70 to 45 degrees to the face. The closer to ninety, the more figure. The closer to 45, the less figure.

Often with WO a board on the line between rift and quartered can have considerable ray flec on one face and absolutely on figure, or perfect rift saw plain grain on the other face! Same board, both rift and quartered!:D I love making stair treads with those boards because I figure the contractor can take his pick, rift or quartered, just by flipping the board. Anyway, look out for that if your after rift sawn. I'm in CT, so I have no idea what sources are available in the SW.

[Raymond Gerdes]

The Woods of Mission is a small sawmill in Sanger, TX that have quite a bit of WO (30 mi north DFW on I-35. Rite now they are hi on mesquite; but they saw a lot of oak and cypress. You tell him what you want and he will cut it. Bob Pugh is owner and a gentleman.
woodsofmissiontimber.com
fax 940-458-5154

My assocciation is as a customer,
Ray Gerdes

[Frank Drew]

I have also read rift and qtr sawn is the same

Really, no; as Peter Quinn notes, "QS is nearly 90 degrees to the face where as rift is mostly 70 to 45 degrees to the face. The closer to ninety, the more figure. The closer to 45, the less figure." Peter, the floor in Washington's National Gallery is QSWO, and you're right, it makes a beautiful floor that ages wonderfully.

"At any rate, rift or qtr sawing wastes a lot of wood."

True quarter sawing can be wasteful, but a log sawn through-and-through will yield flat, rift, and "quarter" sawn boards, without the waste.

[Mark Singer]

Chris,
The Henry Build site offers nice designs like many european kitchen cabinet manufacturers. I have used both rift and quarter sawn oak. I pay more for it than plain sliced. I think it is in the $8 range these days.

[chris fox]

Thanks guys...
I finally found my WWing books and had are fresher on the cut lumber and have a better understanding of the rift and qtr sawn differences.
Also found that my local supplier calls their Qtr cut WO has rift cut pieces - closer to 45-60 deg cut in the stack. But at 9 bucks a BF a little too high.
Raymond, I will give this guy in TX a call and see what he can offer me. I havent dealt directly with a mill so I am assuming I will lose some time to air dry all the lumber?
I will also head back to Woodfinders.

Chris

[Raymond Gerdes]

Chris; Bob Pugh has a vacuum drier and produces a quality product. It is a large kiln and yields a good board....... Give him a call 940-458-4750

Ray Gerdes