Suggestions for increasing jointer belt tension?

[Russell Tribby]

I've had a Grizzly GO586 for about a year now and have never been satisfied with it's performance. On start up there's loud "clunk" sound and what sounds like a marble being tossed around a tin can. It goes away after the initial start up. The cut that it provides has been okay. No matter how slow I feed the stock I still get tiny ridges. I've had the blades sharpened and have realigned the tables and blades. I replaced the belts with link belts which didn't seem to do much. After doing all this and really not seeing that much of an improvement I've decided that there's not enough tension on the belts.
Does anyone have any secrets/advice on increasing belt tension? I saw in another thread where someone had wedged a piece of wood between the motor and the underside of the top to push the motor down but that won't work on this model. Is it better to remove the belts and then move the motor or leave the belts on and try and move the motor as much as the belts will allow?

[Dan Friedrichs]

Have you tried using a Quick-Grip-type clamp flipped around to be a "spreader"? Maybe then you could wedge it against the motor and something else.

[Russell Tribby]

I hadn't thought of that. The problem is that the area directly above the motor is slanted (it's the dust shute) so there's no way to effectively wedge anything in there.

[Rick Lizek]

What do you think that greater tension is going to do and what exacttly is the shortcoming of the machine.

The ridges are a product of the knives and feed speed. A jointer is not a finishing machine so are you expecting more than it can do. If feeding slower doesn't eliminate some of the ridges than yours knives maybe off more than you know. I wouldn't worry about a few thousandths as it will wear down to the next highest one. A knife .010" higher would mean cutting with a single knife and would create excessive ripples.

As long as it's not slipping the weight of the motor is plenty and most jointers of this size are either using the motor as the weight or under tension with a bolt or something.

Cogged belts are better on smaller diameter pulleys and would be a better upgrade than a link belts. It would transmit more power. Link belts are worse in some applications.

[M Toupin]

I agree with everything Rick said.

Unless your experiencing belt slip, which would be evident, then tightening the belts will not improve the cut/performance in any way. What you WILL do if you over tighten the belts is cause premature failure of the bearings on both the cutter head and your motor.

As far as the cut, as Rick said, it's either mis adjusted knifes or your feeding too fast. I've got the same machine, it works fine, although I too can get it to leave ridges by feeding way too fast.

Mike

[Russell Tribby]

If my expectations are high it's because my little Ridgid 6" jointer that I had before this produced better results. The shortcomings of the machine are that it doesn't do what I expect it to which, in the case of edge jointing, is to produce a glue line ready edge. The ridges that it leaves prevent that from happening. I could go back and check the knives again (this would the third time) but they were set with a magentic jig that held them in place so I can't imagine them being off substantially.
I assumed, it sounds like incorrectly, that the large jolt on start up and the excessive vibration and resulting poor cut could be traced to belts that weren't tight enough. I read on another thread that if in squeezing the belts together the moter moves more than 1/4" then the belts aren't tight enough. I guess I thought that since I had tackled this issue from every other angle then loose belts must have been the culprit.

[Gary Click]

I would suggest that you look at the pulleys for a loose key and/or set screw. This is many times the cause of a "thunk". The pulley is smacked against the key when the motor starts but then runs against the key and is quiet as long as the motor is running and pulling in the cut direction. When the motor is stopped the flywheel effect of the cutter head can pull the pulley back away for the key and reset it for the next thunk.

Unfortunately, if this has been going on for a long time the key and or keyway may be battered loose making a repair a little more difficult than tightening the screw or replacing the key.

gary

[Rick Lizek]

Magnetic jigs don't guarantee perfect knife alignment. Loose belts have nothing to do with your cut. I'm betting it's your knife setting.

People often over tighten their belts. You should be able to pinch them a bit with a two fingers without straining too much.

The Oneway gauge or even a low budget technique is more accurate. Unless one can say their knives are within x thousandths it's only a guess. I tune and repair machines professionally and when I'm done I can tell the client how accurate the tuning is and show then a perfect sample pair of boards aligned for gluing. Typically I can set the knives on a 4 knife 20" jointer within .0005" in 20 minutes. I've been doing it 25 years so I have lots of practice.

[M Toupin]

I assumed, it sounds like incorrectly, that the large jolt on start up and the excessive vibration and resulting poor cut could be traced to belts that weren't tight enough.

As gary has said, check the pulley. The clunk is pretty common symptom of a loose pulley. Think about it a moment, if there's a banging or clunking noise, then something has to be banging together...

As far the cut, Check your knifes. Those magnetic jigs are notoriously inaccurate. The best way is with a decent dial indicator, though you can check by taking a 12" or so 3/4" X 3/4" stick. Place the stick over your jointer head and slowly rotate the cutter head. As the knife passes the stick it will ever so slightly pick up the stick and move it forward. If your knifes are set evenly then the stick should move the same amount for each knife. Check to insure all 4 knifes move the stick the same amount. If you find one or more knifes move the stick significantly more than the others, then you've found your problem. Be sure to check both ends of your knifes, it's possible to have one end maladjusted.

While not a Oliver in any stretch of the imagination, the GO586 is a decent jointer for the price point. It's more than capable of glue joint edges once you get it running correctly.

Here's a good video on adjusting knifes.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2983839096587014177

[Russell Tribby]

I have a dial indicator that I used last time when I set the knives but I can't remember what the results were. I'll pull it out and check the knives this week.

[Tom Esh]

It may be the outside of the belt slapping the pulley guard on startup. Some of the Griz machines do that.

[keith ouellette]

I don't know if the belt is your problem or not but there was a recent post about adding tension to the belt of a jointer. The solution was to wedge a length of 2x4 in to push the motor down. I seem to remember the 2x4 was left in place to stiffen the motor brackets also. It had a picture of it. try a search.

[Russell Tribby]

I saw that keith but my jointer won't allow that. The motor is attached to the slanted dust chute so there's no way I could wedge a piece wood in there.

[paul dyar]

Russell,
The stick of wood was not to put more tention on the belt, but to stiffen the motor mount. Could have put a jack between motor and stand and got all the tention I wanted.
paul

[harry strasil]

If I remember correctly the rule of thumb for V belt tension is using a straight edge, and pushing or pulling on the belt with about 6 I think it is lbs pressure the belt should deflect about 3/8 to 1/2 inch in approx 24 inches.

[Alan Lilly]

I had the ridgid before getting the grizzly g1018.
I'm not having the same problem you are, but I did have a problem with vibration. I removed 1 of 2 belts and now it runs smooth and creates a perfect glue edge. Does the g0586 have 2 belts?

[Don Morris]

Can you replace the belt with one of the link belts? That's supposed to clear up a lot of problems.

[Irwin Fletcher]

Russell, I also have the G0586 and from day one it has had the "clunk" sound when you first turn it on. Unlike yours though, mine put a perfect face/edge on a board right out of the box, and I have never bothered to mess with it.

Oh, and when putting it together, I also noticed that I couldn't get much tension on the belts, but they don't slip, so I figured they're tight enough.

I'm betting your problem is your knives. I hope you can get it straightened out. I know how frustrating a problem like that can be. Good luck!

Please post back here if you get it resolved.

[Curt Harms]

.... The best way is with a decent dial indicator, though you can check by taking a 12" or so 3/4" X 3/4" stick. Place the stick over your jointer head and slowly rotate the cutter head. As the knife passes the stick it will ever so slightly pick up the stick and move it forward. If your knifes are set evenly then the stick should move the same amount for each knife. Check to insure all 4 knifes move the stick the same amount. If you find one or more knifes move the stick significantly more than the others, then you've found your problem. Be sure to check both ends of your knifes, it's possible to have one end maladjusted....

What Mike said about the "stick trick". Jet even "formalized" it. I got an aluminum extrusion with what looked like a saw blade kerf across it. What was if for? I emailed Jet and the reply was that the the extrusion should move the width of the "kerf" when rotating a knife past the extrusion. Try it, it works.

Curt

[Philip Rodriquez]

Unless the belts continue to slip, they are not the issue. As others have said, it sounds like your knives are too high. I suggest investing in some good setup tools, as they will save you hours of frustration.
I think 90% of tool problems can be traced back to the setup and 9.8% back to the operator. That means that there is a .2% chance that this is not your fault :o.

A simple dial indicator (http://www.oneway.ca/workshop/multi-gauge.htm (http://www.oneway.ca/workshop/multi-gauge.htm)) will let you know if the problem is with your blades and a simple machinist straightedge (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=56676&cat=1,240,45313 (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=56676&cat=1,240,45313)) will let you know if the problem is with your tables.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Russell,

I just was messing with my Grizzly 490x yesterday since I was having the same issue.

The problem was definately the belt tension. The manual from Grizzly suggests that the weight of the motor is sufficient, but I disagree. Yes, it will tension the belt enough to run and not appear to be slipping, but when I would stop the machine and the motor spun down, once it was almost stopped, the belt would start to slap against the pulleys and cause an awful racket.

So, in my limited experience and my dad's greater experience with equipment, we decided 1/4" deflection at the midpoint of the two pulleys provided ample tension and now startup and shutdown are much much smoother. I still have a hint of belt slap at the end of the spin-down, but no where near what it was.

I had to wedge a ripped down 2x4 in between the motor and the dust chute to leverage the motor down to get the tension. I had the 2x4 in at an angle so i was prying against the edge of the chute...don't pry too hard or you'll obviously damage the chute.

I'm much happier now. The machine sounded really cheap and rickety the way it was before. There is still a bit of vibration, but it's a single belt system, so you can't expect it to run smooth as glass.

Edit: As for the surface quality of your cut, that's hard to say. Get your belts set up correctly and then start troubleshooting that issue. If you truly do have too much slop in the belts the cutter head is obviously not going to cut right. So, start with the basics. Remember, in troubleshooting make changes one at a time so you can effectively pinpoint what the problem was and also so you can undo an unnecessary change...

Just my .02.

[Chip Lindley]

Check that the cutter head is bolted down securely to the jointer casting. Looseness could lend itself to vibration which will cause a rough finish. In addition to checking for loose pulleys, check for anything broken or loose inside the fan housing of your motor. A fin may be broken off.

For belt tensioning you have (2) choices! DRILL NEW HOLES in the mount to allow more movement, OR use a SHORTER BELT. You already have a link belt installed. TRY taking 1 or 2 links out of the belt to allow more tension. (a given belt-length is not Written In Stone!) PowerTwist belts seem to ride higher than regular belts and do not work well in very close clearances (maybe the cause of your *noise*) A *notched* V-belt may be a better choice!

Use the information posted here on correct knife set-up, and you should see improved results!

[paul dyar]

I agree, the belt is a piece of crap, mine looks like someone cut it out with a pocketknife. I still say the motor mount is the real problem. No belt is going to be perfect, and if the base is not stiff enough it is going to flex. If you can squeeze the belt between your thumb and index finger and see the mount flex, go figure.
paul

[Tri Hoang]

I think if you open belt cover on the G0586 and watch the belt while pushing the start button I think you will find that the loud noise was caused by the belt banging on the narrow openning. Just forget about those two lousy belts and get a set of 3/8" link belts (http://www.cshincorporated.com/index.php). I think it's about $42/shipped for a 7ft belt. The difference in noise and vibration is remarkable with the new belts.

[Russell Tribby]

I should have some time this weekend to explore some of these suggestions. I had replaced the belts with link belts awhile ago but one of them ended up getting shaved down. I don't know what it was coming into contact with (I didn't have the time at the moment to look into further).
I've reset the knives two times already (once after having them sharpened) and have used a dial indicator both times to check for height. That's one of the reasons I assumed my problems could be linked back to belt tension. I just can't see the motor providing enough tension. There is way too much give when I push on the belts. I haven't checked to see if it's slipping but I'll do that this weekend.
I'll see if I can get my wife to help me. Maybe if she can start the machine for me while I'm watching the pulley's and belts it will give me an idea of wehre the clunking is coming from and if the belts are slipping. I'll keep you guys updated.

[Russell Tribby]

Well my jointer is performing much better now. I took the belts off (one link belt and one v-belt), took a link out of the link belt and put them back on. I no longer have the big clunk on start up. I checked the knives again with my dial caliper and sure enough the end of one of the knives was lower than the others. I adjusted it and the cut improved dramatically. Thanks to everyone for all of your suggestions and thoughts.