Epilog rotary issues revisited

[Dave Johnson29]

From this thread...
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=1065534&postcount=15



the Epilog Rotary design has serious issues. Great in theory but not so great in the real world where stuff has play and wobble.


Hi All,

I am playing with the Epilog Rotary that was kindly loaned to me as I thought of a couple of ideas that might work to make it better.

The problem is I cannot make it slip or wobble when I set it up. I am using dish washing liquid on the surface and wheels and a big old 20oz beer mug with handle.

Can someone please describe what I need to do to make this thing unsuitable so I can see what it might need to make it better.

I hate to say it, but the way the glasses are set up in the rotary may be more the issue than a design flaw.

Along with the beer mug, I have tried champagne flutes, saucer-style champagne glasses, wine glasses, Martini glasses and tumblers. I cannot fault it. The Martini glass had the tail end wound up to the max height to get the laser surface as flat as possible and still it did not slip even on fairly fast moves.

The spring thing with the little wheel definitely needs to be positioned correctly when attaching it, and in some instances a larger diameter wheel would be a benefit. They are the only issues I have found so far. I don't think I am going to get rich making attachments for these rotaries. :eek::D:D

Also the o-rings on this one are dry and cracked so fresh rubber would work better I assume.

[Linda Tetreault]

Dave,

You have to put a very expensive piece or an heirloom in , it'll skip every time!!

[Ray Rouleau]

I'm actually running a dozen glasses right now, no issues. But I have found in the past if you have dishwashing liquid that is applied in the area of the drive belts, the glass will slip.
Ray

[Dan Hintz]

Dave,

Throw in some glasses that have a bump on the rim, or aren't perfectly round, or are fairly light with a heavy handle.

[Dave Johnson29]

Throw in some glasses that have a bump on the rim, or aren't perfectly round, or are fairly light with a heavy handle.

The beer mug has a heavy handle but it too is heavy so may have been applying enough pressure.

The out of round and varying lip did not seem to phase it provided it was set up with the lip firmly touching the half-round end stop and the spring-thing-wheel had good pressure on the inside.

I notice that some of the time the spring-thing-wheel mount hits the top edge of end stop and it looks like the wheel is touching the inside but is not. That's where a larger diameter spring-thing-wheel would help.

I remain convinced so far it is a careful set up issue. It is imperative that the spring-thing is mounted all the way back against the screw threads before tightening the thumb screws. Make sure it is aligned with the edge of the extrusion.

[James Stokes]

One thing I have slip a lot are champain flutes or something that has a rounded edge that sets on the rollers. The champain flutes with the twisted stem almost always slip. Also anything that the top clamp will not fit, a full bottle for instance.

[Dave Johnson29]

One thing I have slip a lot are champain flutes or something that has a rounded edge that sets on the rollers.


Thanks James,

I think this is part of the issue, the rounded top edge of anything should be beyond the rollers and rubbing on the half-round end-stop. I have 3 different types of flutes here and they all work fine if that lip is right against the black end-stop.

As to the twisted stem, I don't have any to test but will look for some. However I am not sure I can see how the stem would affect the outcome unless you have it running on the tail-rollers. With the stemmed glasses I am testing, I put the base of the glass between the two o-rings on the tail rollers.



Also anything that the top clamp will not fit, a full bottle for instance.

OK, good point, I have not tried a bottle. I did try a 1-liter carafe and it did OK both with the neck at the end-stop and also the bottom.

Work goes on. Thanks to everyone for the input so far.

[Martin Boekers]

Try placing the beer mug the other way so that when you engrave the image will face toward you when you hold the mug (right handed that is)
you won't be able to use the clamp then. This is esp troublesome on the larger mugs.

My clients like the mugs,but they want them engraved so when they drink from them the engraving faces toward them.

I also get issues sometimes when the type or image will come out compressed.
then I have to expand it in the file so it looks normal.

any suggestions on that will be appreciated.

Marty

[Tom Gooch]

Does anyone know if Epilog is working on enhancements or improvements to their rotary? I could use one, but am really reluctant to invest, given the less than enthusiastic reviews. Seems like the only thing about Epilog that people DON'T rave about.

[Dave Johnson29]

Try placing the beer mug the other way so that when you engrave the image will face toward you when you hold the mug (right handed that is)
you won't be able to use the clamp then.


Hi Martin,

Not sure I understand, the clamp I am using holds inside the glass.

[Bob Davis]

To get accurate positioning of the graphic onto a tankard (with handle) I usually start with the handle pointing straight down in the jig. This setup is quick, accurate and easy because I can just use a saved job with the graphic centre at a point equal to one quarter of the circumference. The job starts, the jig rotates over the white space and the engraves as required.
Just need to be careful that the engraved area doesn't go so far as to allow the head (with air-assist fitting) to strike the handle as it rotates.

The job cannot be started with the handle at the top because there is not enough clearance for the head and rail. This also means that both sides of the mug cannot be done in one job as the handle needs to rotate through the rail.

An alternative way to engrave the "near side" of a tankard (as seen holding it by the right hand) is to set the graphic at the top of the page and put the tankard in the jig at the correct offset. This way the laser starts engraving immediately and if all the calculations and measuring are accurate the job will work fine.

Plan C is to place the tankard into the jig with the handle down and the tankard opening to the right, the graphic rotated 90-right instead of 90-left.

I've only just updated to a Helix from an old Radius, so I haven't had a chance to play with centre-engraving on a tankard as yet. (The Radius didn't have this feature.) This could simplify things considerably.

Some items just won't fit the jig. I would like to see both ends of the jig adjustable for height, and the sprung wheel fitting adjustable for length. The added length would allow downward pressure to be applied closer to the centre of the item and would help prevent slew in light pieces to keep them positively located.

Although thr Epilog rotary jig has some problems, for my use it is clearly far superior to any others that I have seen. We do a lot of glasses and I think it's a very worthwhile addition.

[Brian Jones FL]

I see lots of references to rubbing soap onto glass for enraving curious why that method? I've been using a paper towel cut to size sprayed with windex and laid where I'm engraving for a long time to accomplish the smoothing effect that the soap rub does so I was a bit curious as it seems having to get rid of soap residue afterwards and the things it can do bad to your rotary alignment so there's got to be an advantage there I don't yet understand!

[Dave Johnson29]

To get accurate positioning of the graphic onto a tankard (with handle) I usually start with the handle pointing straight down in the jig.


Hi Bob,

As you can see with this beer mug, the handle is level with the top lip and the handle straight down would not be possible. However it is rotated far enough down to allow sufficient rotation for the graphic to be centered.

For this situation I would suggest a small block of wood cut such that the handle rests on it in the start position. That would be even more accurate to register the start position than just eyeballing the handle vertical at the bottom.

As for skewing, I am making a first prototype to overcome that. I machined up some of the parts yesterday and will have it completed later today. During the night, :eek: I thought of an even better approach and will be investigating that further today. Stay tuned.

[Martin Boekers]

Dave,

position a is the standard setup with clamp.

position be is with the mug rotated 180 degrees to get the other side.

I just took these photos quickly, when I do these mug I attach a hose clamp around the bottom of the mug to round out the slotted sides.

Marty

[Dave Johnson29]

position a is the standard setup with clamp.


Thanks Marty,

I am getting a better idea of the real-world problems of using it.

[David Fairfield]

Dave

I've found the rotary to be most reliable for heavy, cylindrical objects such as wine bottles or the heavy beer glass you've apparently been using in your tests. My core application was lighter weight, globular and tapered liqueur glasses.

Besides weight and shape, the issue may also be different concepts of quality control. I'll reject any glass where I see any visible wobble or compression in the graphic. And since my designs tended to be small, very detailed and symmetrical, flaws tend to jump out, at least to my eye. I attach sample of my designs (these passed inspection).

I tried many adjustments and different set-ups, and made careful notes and measurements when some configuration appeared to work better than others. I made weights that did help increase traction and reduced slippage. The bottom line for me though, was that the tool is just not reliable for light weight, tapered glasses. So I have cut glass engraving out of the services I offer.

I do hope you come up with an add-on to increase reliability.

Dave

[Bob Davis]

Hi Dave,

I'll be interested to see your invention, and if it's got strong advantages over the standard design I could be a customer.

Regards, Bob Davis

[Dave Johnson29]

I'll be interested to see your invention, and if it's got strong advantages over the standard design I could be a customer.


Hi Bob,

I am following two courses at the moment. I began developing an entire rotary system that is nothing like the rotaries I have seen. That is taking quite some time with design and prototypes but is showing great progress.

A few weeks back I noted frequent issues posted here with the Epilog and in looking at it I have figured out a couple of add-on solutions and that is at the front of my focus at the moment.

As I am now finding out, I think a lot of the problems with the Epilog rotary are in the setting of it up rather than design flaws. I am currently making an adapter that will remove some of the setting up issues from that equation.

Any and all items will be available when and if I am happy they are working to my satisfaction. That's quite a high standard by the way. In my other accessory manufacturing businesses I have not had a warrany claim or failed part in more than the 13 years that I have been in those businesses and that includes many, many thousands of products.

In fact one product I spent 2 years developing for a Sport industry, I finally dropped it as it was just too difficult for a non mechanical person to set up. It did the job perfectly, but required very careful installation and because of that it never made it out of the final prototype stage. :( I have about 100lbs of machined prtotype parts to remind me of that one.

OK, enough chest thumping, everyone back to work. :)

[Roy Brewer]

Hi Bob,

As you can see with this beer mug, the handle is level with the top lip and the handle straight down would not be possible.Dave,

Thanks for posting your results on this. I do want to be sure you know the thumbscrews on the front drive wheels allow them to be removed to allow a mug like you picture to be positioned downward (as many prefer).

[Dave Johnson29]

the thumbscrews on the front drive wheels allow them to be removed to allow a mug like you picture to be positioned downward (as many prefer).

Hi Roy,

Thanks, I realize that, but that's a little self defeating as you get less contact (grip) and even more prone to slippage.

The beer mug from Dollar Tree has the handle top less than a quarter inch lower than the lip so the handle could not go straight down. However unless you need to mark the side opposite the handle, the block of wood and the handle pointing down at an angle and registering on the block would suffice.