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View Full Version : Practice Ball & Claw No. 3



Cody Colston
04-02-2009, 8:41 PM
I did some experimenting on No. 2 and it didn't warrant a photo.

This is my third practice piece and if y'all will comment, I'll stop subjecting you to my newbie attempts until they are attached to a piece of furniture. ;)

This is out of Aromatic Cedar and was a bunch easier to carve than the Sweetgum. However, I'm also wearing three bandaids and have a few more nicks that weren't too bad. I've drawn more blood using these carving tools over the past three days than I ever have using power tools. After a pass over the leather wheel on the Jet sharpener, a careless bump is all it takes to put a slice in a finger or hand.

I think I've improved since that first try although I may not be ready to tackle a Mahogany cabriole leg just yet. Soon though, cause I've got a project in mind that needs a ball & claw foot. :D

mike holden
04-03-2009, 10:17 AM
That is a fine-looking claw and ball foot.

You *ARE* ready for the mahogany.

Just do it! (and take pictures to share)

Mike

David Keller NC
04-03-2009, 3:34 PM
Cody - Keep in mind these comments are meant as a critique, not criticism. Most woodworkers, even most wood carvers, don't even attempt to tackle ball and claw feet, thinking they're "too difficult".

Realize that my comments are coming from the reproduction furniture aspect, so I'm aiming for aesthetics that are consistent with those B&C feet carved in the 18th century.

So - I would say that there's too much slope to the webbing (it's not cut-in at the ankle quite enough), and it's a bit too pronounced - it comes out a bit too far between the toes. Also, the front toe is a bit thin for the size of the ball, at least with respect to Philadelphia feet (which I think is the style you're going for, with webbing and short talons).

If it'll help (and noting that I don't have a piece of original furniture - I'd have to be rich to have one!), I'll post a couple of photos of some feet I've recently completed in mahogany.

Cody Colston
04-03-2009, 8:42 PM
David, critique is the reason I post my attempts here. That's the only way I will get better without actually taking lessons from an instructor and there ain't any around Tyler that I know about.

I think I know what you mean about the webbing and I certainly agree about the skinny claw. Proportion is one of the things I struggle with in nearly all my woodworking.

If you have examples to post, by all means do so. I'm a visual learner so the more I see, the more I absorb. ;)

Leo Voisine
04-04-2009, 8:49 AM
Cody - sorry - but no critique from me.

You know me - but I can look in total awe and come away with inspiration.

I took a night class one time in half hul modeling. We used 2 tools. 1) a raduised gouge and 2) a pattern makers rasp.

I came away with this:
Carving - is more difficult to do than it looks.

I learned
on my half hul six week class - I learned a LOT - but your claw foot is more complex than my half hull.

YOU - doing GREAT man.:D

Jim Kountz
04-04-2009, 1:22 PM
Cody, I think your progress is great. I remember the first one you posted and you are getting better for sure. I have never tried to carve anything so I cant offer any advice but it looks to me like you are ready to try some other wood. Im still trying to get the queen anne feet down and thats giving me enough trouble. So keep up the good work and keep us posted!!

David Keller NC
04-05-2009, 10:47 AM
Cody - Here a few quick snaps of some tea table legs that I've been working on. I'd thought they were in a more completed state than they are, but the one that I've taken close-ups of is pretty much finished except that there are too many tool-marks and will need a bit of cleaning up with a gouge.

One thing you may be interested in is how far the webbing comes down over the ball - most of the Philadelphia antiques I've seen have this feature fairly minimized. Also, there is no webbing between the side toes and the rear.

A couple of other aspects of these that are unlike most antiques - these were intentionally made with the ankle poised more over the top of the ball, and there's considerably more definition on the rear toe than is most often seen on antiques. The old ones typically have a very primitive rear toe that just suggests the outline, probably because they wouldn't be seen in use, and it didn't make sense to put too much work into them.

Cody Colston
04-05-2009, 1:51 PM
I see, said the blind man!

That's outstanding work, David. Thanks for the pics. I've been needing a large pic of a B&C to reference while carving. This will fit the bill nicely.

David Keller NC
04-05-2009, 2:18 PM
Cody - One more reference you might want to check out - Jeffrey Green's American Furniture of the 18th Century. This is a superb book for anyone interested in making period furniture, and is inexpensive.

He's got a discussion in one of the chapters about the specific dimensions of a cabriole leg, and some comments about differences in regional styles of B&C feet. The discussion is useful, because one of the hardest things to get right is the curve and location of the knee on cabriole legs (whether terminated with B&C feet or pad feet). I see this even from professional furniture makers - some have the knee too low (which is a characteristic of English furniture), or too pronounced that's it's a bit garish. This element, by the way, is a critical part of whether an antique piece is viewed as a "masterpiece" or "typical" of the period.

Cody Colston
04-05-2009, 2:42 PM
Thanks David but I already have the book. It was my first acquisition when I decided I wanted to start making 18th Century style furniture. You are right, too, it's a wonderful book.

I've noticed many modern pieces where the cabriole leg dimensions are not quite right...too pronounced a curve at the knee, too little curve behind the knee, too thick, too thin...

Getting the cyma curve just right is critical to having the piece look correct. I'm sure I'll use up a lot of posterboard making patterns before becoming satisfied.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions.

David Keller NC
04-05-2009, 3:02 PM
"I've noticed many modern pieces where the cabriole leg dimensions are not quite right...too pronounced a curve at the knee, too little curve behind the knee, too thick, too thin..."

I've a funny antecdote about this (though not particularly funny at the time). A lady contacted me and asked me to build a tea table for her with cabiole legs and pad feet. I discussed dimensions and wood selection with her, and provided drawings. All seemed well until I delivered the piece.

She noted that the pad feet "didn't look right". I was a bit surprised by that, and asked her what she meant. She ushered me into her dining room where she had a really awful Ethan Allen reproduction, and pointed to the severely attenuated and way-too-tall pad feet, and said "18th century ones looked like these".

I suppressed the strong urge toward hysterical laughter, and did manage to convince her that what I'd made her was a far superior example after returning to my place and fetching Jeffrey Greene's book (among others) and showing her pictures of authentic 18th century pieces. It reminded me that not everyone that's not a furniture geek like me has a clear idea of what pieces from the golden age of handwork really looked like!

Cody Colston
04-05-2009, 3:55 PM
In about 45 minutes, I have to leave for work (two days early due to some meetings I have to attend). In one of my bags, I packed:

Glen Huey's "Illustrated Guide to Building Period Furniture"
FWW's "In the 18th Century Style"
Lonnie Bird's "Period Furniture Details"
and since I'm also a turner, I included a loaned copy of S. Gary Roberts' "Masterful Woodturning"

In the two+ weeks I'm gone, I will read them cover to cover...probably more than once. I think I'm well on my way to becoming a furniture geek, too. :D

Jim Kountz
04-05-2009, 4:09 PM
In about 45 minutes, I have to leave for work (two days early due to some meetings I have to attend). In one of my bags, I packed:

Glen Huey's "Illustrated Guide to Building Period Furniture"
FWW's "In the 18th Century Style"
Lonnie Bird's "Period Furniture Details"

and since I'm also a turner, I included a loaned copy of S. Gary Roberts' "Masterful Woodturning"

In the two+ weeks I'm gone, I will read them cover to cover...probably more than once. I think I'm well on my way to becoming a furniture geek, too. :D

Some good reading there Cody, I have Glenns book and the DVD that came with it, excellent resource. I just ordered Jeffery Greens book after reading this thread and on the advice of Dave and Mike Holden. I have always been a furniture geek but never had the stones to try some of this stuff myself. Im glad I changed that!! Fun stuff aint it!!

David Keller NC
04-05-2009, 4:16 PM
Guys - There's lots and lots of books I could include as references for the period furniture maker, some of them enormously expensive because they're rare and out of print, but one that's been reprinted innumerable times and has just gone through another revision, update and re-publication is Sack's "The Fine Points of Furniture". I think it's about $15 in soft cover, and while the pics in this book are black and white, it's got somewhere on the order of 700 pictures of 18th century American forms, and most critically, why some are "to die for" and some are less successful. That sort of analysis is extremely valuable to us, who often have to guess at dimensions and draw up our own plans.

Well worth owning, and cheap (The New Fine Points of Furniture is also well worth owning, and has color pictures, but is not so cheap because it hasn't been reprinted).

P.S. - I didn't realize it when I up-loaded them, but the SMC forum software doesn't print the file titles under the picture when viewed in the thread. If you click on the pictures, I've labeled the close-ups "B&C rear", "B&C front", etc... so that you can distinguish the views and note how the ball and webbing looks different depending on whether we're talking about the front, side, and rear.

Lee Hingle
04-05-2009, 8:05 PM
Cody,
I see you have Lonnie Bird's "Period Furniture Details"

Shoot Lonnie an email and get him to send you one of these plaster casts:

That leg is one I carved during a class of his. Keep in mind it's my first attempt - and not a very good one :D

I find it helps to have a good example on hand. His daughter casts them and he sells them for her to give her a little spending money. It's a cast from a leg he carved.

Good luck,

Lee

David Keller NC
04-06-2009, 10:10 AM
Lee - That's actually a very good Philadelphia B&C except for some additional carving needed on the knuckles of the toes. Hat's off to you for getting this far in a class - while a ball and claw is a deliberate process of going from one step to another, it's still a fairly complex carving as furniture goes, most are simple relief ornaments, and even though I've done several dozen, it still takes me as much as a day to complete one..

A couple of other resources for those reading this thread and interested in furniture carving:

Allan Breed sells castings as well, though of Newport-school carvings:

http://www.allanbreed.com/order_form.cfm

Robert Whitley also sells plans/castings of some of his reproductions (I've a couple of his plan sets - they're superb and relatively inexpensive):

http://whitleystudio.com/furnitureplans.htm

Finally, I highly recommend Frederick Wilbur's book "Carving Architectural Detail in Wood: The Classical Tradition". Despite the title, it's a useful book for 18th century American and British furniture carving, as much of these early pieces have elements of classical greek and roman architecture in the ornamentation.

Lee Hingle
04-10-2009, 8:34 PM
Hi David,
Thanks for your kind words. I will check out the Robert Whitley link - I have seen Allan's site (and am in awe). Do you know if Allan still teaches classes on carving? His website still lists classes from '07 last time I checked.

Thanks,

Lee

David Keller NC
04-11-2009, 9:33 AM
"Do you know if Allan still teaches classes on carving?"

I think so, but you would have to call/contact him. His talents are very much in demand from high-end collectors, museums and auction houses as one of the foremost experts on working on/reproducing the work of John Goddard and John Townsend, so it wouldn't surprise me that classes take a back seat when he's got important (and lucrative) comissions piled up.