Is Ash really that bad?

[Ben Cadotte]

I was at a local yard agian today and wanted to buy some Ash to check out. I wanted a good hard wood to use, and Ash is about half of Oak or Hard Maple (from a local cutter). The guy at the lumberyard looked at me and said no way. We can't keep it from cracking just sitting there. I was thinking of driving over and getting 100bf or so. Wanted to try a little out first though. But now that the guy at the lumberyard has said that it cracks bad. I am rethinking my idea? Where I was going to purchase the 100bf from slowly air dries it to 12% before putting it in the sale racks.

Is it really that bad?

[Jim W. White]

I've never had a problem with it splitting and have used it on several sizable projects. I think if you do a search of the forums for previous posts concerning Ash that most people who use it think very highly of it, especially in terms of value. I like working with it better than Oak personally.

Jim in Idaho

[Bob Rufener]

I have used locally grown and harvested ash for a number of projects and never had a problem with cracking or splitting. From what you say, it sounds like the wood isn't cured properly. Is there another source in your area that you could look into.

[Ben Cadotte]

Well, I wanted just a little from the lumberyard to work with for a bit. Where I was going to get a good ammount from is about a 2 hour drive away. The do a slow air dry of all their hardwood. And I was thinking that it would be more stable from them. But after the guy in the lumberyard said they couldn't keep any of it from cracking. I started having second thoughts. I figured there was a reason its half of Oak. Just wondering.

[Richard M. Wolfe]

I've used a fair amount of ash and I've never had any crack. As a matter of fact I've never heard of it cracking. It works well; my main complaint is router burning and if it does it seems you have to sand a quarter inch deep to get rid of the burn. A local lumberyard quit carrying it because of powder post beetle. The powder post infestation is only in select boards (trees) but you never know which ones.

[Don Bullock]

Ben, ash was highly used in houses for cabinets and paneling in the early '70s before oak became popular. I used it to make some furniture including a dining table back then. It's still in great condition, with no splitting, and is now my assembly table for my shop. Ash has an open grain (more than oak) that can splinter and it's difficult to get a real smooth surface on it without building up layers of finish. One thing that I like about ash is its hardness which it very difficult to dent. I would suspect that lumberyards don't stock much ash because it isn't popular right now.

[Ed Hazel]

I think one of the reasons Ash is on the cheap side is a lot of it has been cut down in the last few years. I know in Mich the emerald ash (bore?) has killed thousands of Ash trees. Resulting in Ash trees being cut down at a much accelerated pace.

[Brian Kent]

No problems in splitting. I use it for all of my shop "furniture" bases because it is strong, resilient, and good to work with. I use a different wood for surfaces just because of grain surface. I would make the drive and the buy!

[Robert Parrish]

I make carousel horses from ash and have never had a problem with cracking or splitting. I buy all my ash 8/4 and re-saw as needed.

[Clifford Mescher]

There was a ton of furniture made from ash in the beginning of the last century that was passed off as oak and is still looking good today. Clifford.

[Mark Koury]

It’s a pity Babe Ruth isn’t alive - we could ask him! :D

[Stephen Edwards]

I've used it for years and have never had the problem described by your lumber dealer. Other people's comments in this thread accurately reflect my experience with ash. I like it a lot. I think you will, too.

[Corey Wilcox]

I use a lot of white ash for furniture. It's one of my favorite woods to work with and I've never had any trouble with it cracking or splitting. I have quite a stack of air dried ash that I cut two years ago and it's all in good shape.

[Jim Summers]

At a house I used to leave in I built two pantry doors out of ash. They were raised panel types and were about 6' by 2'. They never warped, cracked or anything.

HTH

[Cody Colston]

Louisville Slugger baseball bats are made exclusively from Northern White Ash. Until the fairly recent move to Maple (prompted mostly by Barry Bonds' 73 home run season using a Maple bat) MLB bats were all Ash, too.

I built a corner cabinet for a friend out of Ash and it turned out beautifully. He is an insurance agent and has it in his office. His wife did the stain and finish on it.

FWIW, Ash is also known as "Poor Man's Oak." ;)

[Ron Bontz]

My entertainment center is all ash. Never had a problem with any ash I used. Properly dried, of course.:)

[chris beserra]

It's used on guitars and it holds up very well.

[Louis Reynolds]

I'll take ash over oak or maple any day...I've had more problems with red oak or hard maple checking or cracking on me than any ash that I've ever worked with.

Unfortunately, ash is going to be a problem here to get in PA soon, we have the Emerald Ash Borer in a few counties now too. It's still cheap and plentiful for the time being, not sure how long that'll last...

[Mike Null]

I'm with Louis. Ash, in my judgment, is vastly superior to red oak for anything decorative. I have used it for several jewelry boxes without problem and have always been pleased with the beauty of the grain.

Finishing can be a challenge.

[Rod Sheridan]

I use ash for shop furniture because it is a hard durable wood, that happens to be inexpensive for reasons I cannot fathom.

I also have some furniture that I've made from ash, and am pleased with the results.

Either there's a surplus of it on the market as others have said, or it's simply under appreciated.

Buy it from a good source and you will be pleased with it.

Regards, Rod.

[Quinn McCarthy]

Ben,

I have made a ton of from white and black ash and have never had a problem. I did notice that you mentioned it was air dried. I would buy it kiln dried. Then you know there won't be a problem. The ash borer won't have any effect on the quality of the wood. We have been using salvaged wood without knowing it for years. A lot of the dead elm and now ash trees have been salvaged cut and sawn and produce great wood if there is no rot.

Hope that helps.

Quinn

Forester by day woodworker by night.

[Curt Harms]

Smells nice when sawn:). I too buy air dried Ash and it works great. No problems with warping, splitting or checking. Is it more prone than other hard woods to powder post beetle?

[mike holden]

Built this from local Ash wood three years ago. No problems with the wood then or since.

114762

114763

Mike

[John Thompson]

Ash will undoubtedly strip off... when it is green. That's one reason you see it used in making baskets from Appalachia to New England. They pound it green and it just strips rigth off to be worked before it drires. But.. once it does dry... you've already gotten your answer in many post.

Good luck...

[Erik Frederiksen]

I built the interior of a 46 foot racing sailboat out of ash 25 years ago. No problems with the wood. Easy to work with, easy to look at.

[Jim Mackell]

Ben, ash is much less likely to split than oak is. It's also more durable.

If you ever get down to York County, stop in at the Seashore Trolley Museum and I'll show you 100 year old ash moldings that are still in great shape. Can't say the same for the oak.

Jim

[Bill Blackburn]

It’s a pity Babe Ruth isn’t alive - we could ask him! :D


:D:D:D:D:D

Great:D

[Ben Cadotte]

Sopunds like the guy was full of it (same yard that sold me the China ply). I already knew about the baseball bats. I wanted it for drawer fronts and face frames for my new shop cabinets. As I was looking for something that was nice and hard, stand up to some abuse and knocking around. I don't want to use Pine or Poplar (wood or ply) and was considering Ash since it was a nice "hard" wood. And can be bought for less than Pine or Poplar from the yards. The mill I was considering has 4/4 in short's (6') for .75 a bf. That would be just fine for what I want it for.

[Andrew Gibson]

I built a rocking chair out of Ash a while back, it has made it through 3 moves and been in use the entire time with no problems. It was built out of wide 8/4 boards... no sigh of splitting so far...

[Jack Ellis]

I have a bunch of the stuff and I like it. Like the way it looks, like the way it machines. Except...

I have had occasional problems with movement while trying to resaw.

I built a slide-out drawer with it that turned out very nice looking. Wven with water-based poly, it has a nice, warm, rich appearance. I've seen some writers refer to Ash as dignified Oak.

I'm going to use it for the frames on some shop cabinet doors, or perhaps even the whole door.

[Loren Bengtson]

I think one of the reasons Ash is on the cheap side is a lot of it has been cut down in the last few years. I know in Mich the emerald ash (bore?) has killed thousands of Ash trees. Resulting in Ash trees being cut down at a much accelerated pace.

Ben,

Ed is correct. Ash trees in the Ohio, Indiana and other midwestern states are being killed by the thousands by the EAB (Emerald Ash Borer). This beetle gets under the bark and eventually creates tunnels that gird the tree, killing it.

Landowners who have ash trees are cutting them down while they still have some value rather than wait until they (the trees, not the landowners) fall down dead. This is not to say that an ash tree that has been killed by the EAB is not useable, but it does mean that you (the landowner) have no control of when you choose to sell the logs.

I haven't worked with ash much, but I intend to. I have several trees on my property and own a sawmill. If you get down here to Indiana, I'll send you home with a truckload of it at a very reasonable price.

Just because it's cheap doesn't mean there's something wrong with it.

Loren

[John Bailey]

Ash is a great wood to work, although it's very hard and can burn if your machines aren't up to it. I use it for anything that needs to be sculpted, oars, and edging on kayak paddles to protect the paddle. It's very tough and I would expect it to be one of the last woods to split.

I'm not sure the guy at the yard knew what he was talking about.

John

[James Carmichael]

I have to agree, sounds like it's being dried too fast or something. I use it and have had no problems. Just built a face frame from boards that have been in my garage for a couple years.

[Peter Quinn]

Dried ash split? Not likely. Ash has a very high moisture content when green or just cut, but it seasons very quickly, or looses water readily and stays stable once dried or seasoned. Sounds like the lumber yard is either doing something very wrong or trying to up sell, as almost anything around here is more expensive except maybe basswood? Many people have a problem with the color it achieves over years, some don't like its grain, but splitting is not a problem generally. I happen to like it myself.

Now white oak is another story. Any chance they confused ash for white oak? White oak will check and split while you watch it. Cut a fresh end, split free, check free, come back the next day and it has split. Do it again, it does it again. At work we leave everything made of white oak (moldings, stair treads, nosings, counters, etc) long and let the buyers cut to length on the job site so THEY can experience the joy of white oak.

[Chris Padilla]

Wood is a fickle medium. From all the responses here, I'd say whoever you talked to is either misinformed or just has a "bad batch" of trees. It could be from improper drying or maybe just bad trees. Did you actually SEE the ash wood?

[Chip Lindley]

DITTO on *bad batch*! It's not the Ash that is faulty, but perhaps trees sawed into lumber which were leaning, crooked, or had wind shakes! Bad trees make Bad lumber! Bad trees make Good firewood!

[Benjimin Young]

My experience with ASH, for what its worth.

I purchased 600 bd/ft (8+/4) rough sawn ASH almost 2 years ago. It did not get used for its intended purpose so I have been picking away at the pile ever since. I have not noticed any change in cracks or checking or any more checks or cracks than any other lumber I have.

I have been milling a fair bit of the ASH lately, joint, plane, and then ripping into 1x2s, rotating 90 degrees and regluing into wider boards with a rift/quarter sawn look. Some stress is being released after the first cuts, (1/4" in four feet) so I cut big, let it set for a week and then re-edge for glue up. I'm not sure if this a a chracter of ASH, the batch of wood I have, or just the way I am cutting it. In the end, I am very pleased with the look of the glued up boards.

I made a table for a boat cockpit out of the ASH with thin Mahaognay strips, a poor mans teak and holly look. This will be its second year of service for the table and its done fine.

[Craig D Peltier]

I've used a fair amount of ash and I've never had any crack. As a matter of fact I've never heard of it cracking. It works well; my main complaint is router burning and if it does it seems you have to sand a quarter inch deep to get rid of the burn. A local lumberyard quit carrying it because of powder post beetle. The powder post infestation is only in select boards (trees) but you never know which ones.

Do you think Kiln drying will kill the beetles? Not sure how hot a kiln is.

[Loren Bengtson]

Do you think Kiln drying will kill the beetles? Not sure how hot a kiln is.

Craig,

Most, but not all, kilns can get hot enough to kill insects and insect larvae. According to the Forestry Products Laboratory book Drying Hardwood Lumber, the temperature of every part of the lumber must reach 130 degrees Fahrenheit to kill insects.

The really small kilns (under 1500 board foot capacity) sometimes will not be able to attain this temperature, but virtually all commercial kilns used to dry most store-bought lumber will be able to "sterilize" the lumber.

Obviously, though, this will kill only the insects that are in the wood while it is in the kiln. The powder post beetle is one of very few insects that will attack dry wood. Therefore, you can kill all the insects in a stack of lumber and still get an infestation of powder post beetles after it leaves the kiln.

Sorry, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know how to kill powder post beetles once they are in your wood. If anyone else knows how, I'd like to know. I get them in my firewood occasionally.

Loren

[Richard M. Wolfe]

One of the reasons to kiln dry wood is to kill insect infestations. If wood is properly kilned, the extended temperatures will dry the wood and kill beetle larvae. When the wood is taken to 6-8% it is safe against insects.

The problem with powder post beetle is it will live in wood of around 12% moisture. When wood sits for a long period it acclimates to the surrounding conditions, which means it takes up moisture and can reach the point where it can be "reinfected". The powder post doesn't bore in the wood as a hobby.....it's using it as a food source. The food source is primarily starches and sugars. Ash seems to be a wood that has a higher value than a lot of others. Of the woods I deal with mesquite is by far the worst, but have had powder post in red oak, walnut, pecan and bois d'arc. As wood ages many species loose their attraction for powder post....at least some of it, which I take to be a chemical change. As an example aged mesquite generally has sapwood (where the infestation takes place) that has a color change from yellow to off-white. Ash seems to hold it's attraction longer than others. I have had pieces of ash (not boards) several years old which were repeatedly attacked by powder post - at least there seemed to be more holes in it. There is a business here in town that uses large amounts of ash. They get it in green and stick and air dry it. They will have large amounts under cover and keep an eye on it for signs of powder post activity.

But if I were to worry about getting powder post in every board I might as well drop woodworking. I have built quite a number of projects from ash, having the above mentioned business as a source. I have seen no sign of powder post activity in any of the wood I've used. But as I've said before there is a lumberyard here that quit carrying ash because some cabinet men who used ash from there were getting calls from irate customers.