Are Sony Digital Camera's worth it?

[Dennis Peacock]

I am needing to get a 5 Megapixel digital camera. I would really love to go with a digital SLR camera...but they are just out of my price range.....as you see, just buying the camera is "only the beginning of expenses to come".

I have considered Canon, but my strongest three choices at this time are:

1. Sony F717
2. Sony F828
3. Canon Rebel

Remember that I am after a camera that will pickup wood color and grain patterns far better than my old Olympus 1.3Megapixel camera.

Suggestion, ideas, pro's or con's.?????

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Dennis, I think any of the 3 you have it narrowed down to would be a great choice. Personally, I have always liked, and had great success with Canon Photography Equipment. I also have my eye on the Canon Rebel Digital camera. I have the Rebel 2K 35MM SLR camera, and I love it. If I wasn't putting all my extra coins into a new shop at the moment, I may be tempted to upgrade my Digital Camera..............which, by the way, is a Canon! ;)

In short...........if ya need a Television, get a Sony..........if ya need a Camera, get a Canon. :D

(I have a Sony Mavica at the College, and it does a decent job.......but, I have had it in for service a time or two also..........but that doesn't make it a bad camera.)

[Paul B. Cresti]

Dennis,
I recently purchased the DSC-F717 and so far I like it. I bought it for my business. It does take very high resolution pictures. I have used difeerent Sony's when working in my past office and they always took great pictures.
As far as SLR's go then without a doubt it is Nikon both digital and regular film.

[John Miliunas]

Dennis, I've run Olympus 35mm gear for years (2 bodies, numerous lenses, etc...) and would've loved to get into their SLR, but like yourself, just out of my price range. So the search began. After doing a LOT of reading and comparing, I decided that 4 megapixel would give me everything I need. I wanted a good lens, optional manual setting for aperature, shutter or both, hot shoe ability for off the camera flash and a good zoom range. I finally settled on the Panasonic (yes, you read that right: Panasonic) DCM-FZ10. This guy has 12x *optical* zoom with image stabilization, all going through a Leice lens! Picked mine up at Digital Foto Club for the best price anywhere and awesome customer service. :) I've only had it for a couple weeks now and still trying to get used to it, but so far, real happy with the results! Best of luck in your search! :cool:

[Perry Schmidt]

I had to replace my digital camera recently. Info I found out that may be useful.

1) From a very good local camera repair shop. He said to a) buy 4MPix or larger. But 4MPix was a good size - if you aren't doing studio portraits. And b) buy only Nikon or Canon. Better optics, better cameras and easier to fix/repair than other brands.

2) A part-time pro photographer I know said if you are going to get a SLR stick w/ the Canon. They are the best at keeping compatibility w/ their lenses and camera bodies and that they put more 'smarts' into the lense so it can still be used w/ future (and older) bodies. So you can use their lenses w/ a lot more than just the SLR body you have. I think (don't quote me on this) that they are also interchangable w/ their film SLRs. That is many times not the case w/ the others. I don't know how good or bad Nikon is on this, but Minolta is VERY bad at changing bodies and not keeping any compatibility w/ the lenses.

This particular guy also said the same thing - stick w/ Canon, Nikon or Olympus. But repair guy did not like Olympus at all. My 'photographer friend' also said that unless you want to see through the lense to see how it's focused that an SLR doesn't buy you a whole lot more than a good camera w/ manual settings available. In particular he has a Canon Digital Rebel, loves it, and said that in terms of picture taking ability it's very similar to the good Canon PowerShot line of cameras. The only difference is you can look through the lense and see what it's focusing on.

Last thing he pointed out - it use to be you needed to buy digital cameras from the computer companies b/c it was the electronics made a big difference. But now the CCDs are pretty 'standard' technology and it's back to 'what camera has better optics'. And for that the traditional camera companies (i.e. Nikon, Canon, Olympus) are what makes the difference in your pictures.

Short story - stick w/ Canon or Nikon. Given your three choices only one is a canon, so...get the canon! :)

Hope that helps.

Perry

P.S. My money is where my mouth is :) Only had it for a week but we got the Canon A80 and so far really like it! You can go fully automatic to fully manual settings. It takes very good pictures.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with the Cannon or Nikon (I'm a Nikon guy just because that's where I started years ago). I'm not familiar with the Cannon line (other than the Rebel which I considered before going with the D70) but Nikon has some nice "almost SLR" cameras these days with "many megapixels" and lots of zoom capabilty, like the CoolPix 5700 and 8700. Either of these would be a good choice if you can't budget for the Rebel (with a decent lense) or the D70 type digital SLR cameras.

http://www.dpreview.com/ is a good place to do some research on this topic, however. As to buying, I've been very happy dealing with http://www.Ritzcamera.com given their free shipping an no sales tax policies. They are very competitive with anyone and reliable. (They also participate in Ebates.com which further lowers the cost by a few points...)

[Mike Cutler]

Dennis. I have a Nikon Coolpix 5700. Great camera.I have complete control in the manual mode. It is not however a "Point and Shoot" camera. An additional shortcoming of the 5700 is filter use. The 5700 has no provisions to thread a filter to the end of the lens. In order to use a filter you need to install a "Tube" that the lens moves inside of, the filter screws to the end of this tube. This causes vignetting if the lens is not full extended. There are aftermarket lens adapters that use an o-ring to hold a filter to the lens. I recently used a Canon Rebel, what a nice camera.Great pictures, excellent control, good balance in your hand. and all of the function buttons are accesible, but don't get in the way.On my camera there are function buttons located on the left side of the camera that are easy to depreess with your left thumb, if you aren't careful. I've used the Sony DSC F717. it's a nice camera also. I found it a little bit lens heavy. I also don't really care for the proprietary memory stick it requires. When compared to equivalent media storage devices it loses out on the price of the memory stick. Still though, as a camera it's very good. I vote for the Canon. can't really see that it's a bad choice in any way. My .02fwiw

[Ken Salisbury]

Dennis,


I recently upgraded from a Sony 3.2 mega pixel to the Sony DSC-F828 and I love it. The only problem is it is so complicated I will never learn how to use all the features :D .

[Glenn Clabo]

Dennis,
My other hobby is photography. I own about as much photo equipment (cost anyway) as woodworking. I've been a Canon guy for a very long time because of their lenses. However, I will say that between Canon and Nikon you won't go wrong. Canon is still slightly ahead in the digital world...but any good Nikon person will argue about that. There is a learning curve with digital...but you already know enough about computers so it wouldn't be a problem for you.

We have used Sony's in work...they are okay. However, Dr LOML is about to buy a Digital Rebel so as you can guess that would be my recommendation.

[Mark Singer]

I have the Digital Rebel and really like it. It takes all my old Canon lenses including my 24mm TS architectural lens. I traded up from the Canon G2 which I gave to LOML. She really likes it and gave her Canon Digital Powershot to my daughter...we are all Canon happy as you can see . The revies of the Rebel are excellent and the price has come down a bit as well

[Terry Hatfield]

Yo d,

I vote for Cannon as well. I've literally taken thousands of pics with my A20 and it is still going stong. It's only 2.1 megapixels, but I sure like what comes out of it!! It gets some pretty rough treatment from me. It's out in the rain constantly and I've dropped it many times and it continues to perform well. It it ever dies, I'll get the Rebel.

t

[Jack Wood]

Hi Dennis! Well I own a 3.5 mp HP(which takes great pics!) so I really can't say from experience what you need to get but I was once really into 35mm SLR shooting using a Cannon that was a really good camera so I can recomend that brand. But one thing I can advise you to think about is point and shoot capability. While some of your picture taking will be in situations where you can fiddle with apeture, speed etc, I feel that most of the time when dealing with family and event type of picture taking you need to have a camera that will do the thinking for you. :rolleyes: When my first child was born I found my self using the auto function more and more, and lugging all of that gear around was a drag. So we replaced the Cannon with a point and shoot 35 with a fixed zoom lens that went from wide to zoom in no time. I spent more time enjoying the "moment" than messing around with settings. Most of the newer digital SLR's function like conventional 35mm in that the controls are easely accessible on the outside of the camera which means you can quickly change those settings with little effort. But most digital cameras these days make you access a control panel via the lcd screen on the back and then scroll through lots of menus, by that time the baby isn't smiling any more or the pink elephant has run off into the jungle ;-) So my 2 cents is to look for a good quality 5meg camera that has the advanced functions but will handle the point an shoot stuff just as well. You should be able to do this for less than $500, and get a extra memory, a good bag and tripod to boot. And as an after thought, if you buy one of the SLR types that is just the start of the cost, those lenses add up quick! Most come with a bottom of the line starter lens that while adequate you will want to upgrade ASAP. Oh and I have been going through some of my old pics from Darby and I have a few you might want to have. I'll be glad to email them to you, just let me know.:D

[Don Abele]

Dennis, about 6 months ago, I decided to upgrade the Sony digital camera I had (CD-1000) and my Nikon SLR. To that point I still used both, using the SLR when I wanted to be creative. The Sony just didn't allow me enough manual manipulation that my SLR did and I wanted more lens options.

I hooked up with a couple of local Navy Photographers who work in public affairs and talked to them about their equipment and even got to borrow it for a while. These guys shoot thousands of pics a week, everywhere from portraits to combat photography.

I tested the Canon 10D and 300D/D-Rebel which are very similar pro-sumer models but also got to play with the Canon 1Ds ($5000) and Nikon D1H ($4000). While I LOVED the 1Ds (more so than the D1H), ultimately it came down to what I would really use and I wound up with the D-Rebel (I didn't want to wait for the Nikon D70). I have shot over a 1200 photos since then and absolutely love it. I bought a 1GB SanDisk Ultra II compact flash and love it. I'd steer clear of the package deal with the attached lens, it's not the best lens out there. You can save the $100 and upgrade to a better one.

Digital photography has come a long way, and I think my current camera will hold me for quite a while. The lenses I bought are the best currently available (and cost almost as much as the body) and are interchangable with any other Canon system (digital or film), which helps with potential later upgrades.

[Dennis Peacock]

In short...........if ya need a Television, get a Sony..........if ya need a Camera, get a Canon. :D

(I have a Sony Mavica at the College, and it does a decent job.......but, I have had it in for service a time or two also..........but that doesn't make it a bad camera.)

Kev,

Really nice to see you around.!!! :eek: :D

Canon it is...

[Dennis Peacock]

I tested the Canon 10D and 300D/D-Rebel which are very similar pro-sumer models but also got to play with the Canon 1Ds ($5000) and Nikon D1H ($4000). While I LOVED the 1Ds (more so than the D1H), ultimately it came down to what I would really use and I wound up with the D-Rebel (I didn't want to wait for the Nikon D70). I have shot over a 1200 photos since then and absolutely love it. I bought a 1GB SanDisk Ultra II compact flash and love it. I'd steer clear of the package deal with the attached lens, it's not the best lens out there. You can save the $100 and upgrade to a better one.


Don,

Sounds like you and I need to talk. ;)
I have decided on the Canon Rebel. I can get a 512MB CF Card from ibuydigital.com for $130 and Royal Camera as the camera with 18-55mm EF-S Lens for $649. If there is a better "general purpose" lens to start out with, then I want to know. I have a budget to work with and it is TIGHT.!!!

Would it be better if I left off the stock lens and got this instead:

Canon EOS Digital Rebel Body
New! 28-300 3.5-6.3 Auto focus Lens

<b>What say ye Mr. Don.!???</b>

[Don Abele]

Dennis, I just answered your PM and hope I provided you with enough information :p - if not ask.

The 512 is a good amount of storage and will typically hold around 150 photos. I use a 1 GB which holds about 300. I use the SanDisk Ultra II as it has some pretty amazing transfer speeds.

As for the price - that's a great price, even more so for the one without the lens at $579. I paid $800 for mine (without lens) just a couple of months ago.

The 28-300 lens sounds nice, but as far as I know, the only Canon lens like that is one of their image stabilized ones for over $1000. If you are looking at a brand other than Canon, I highly recommend against it. You'll get what you pay for. The worst thing you could do is pair a high quality camera with a cheap lens - you'll get poor quality photos no matter how good the camera, photographer, or subject. It really is the weakest link - so spend a comparable amount of money to get the right lens for the camera.

Besides, that lens is going to be a beast to carry, not only in weight, but length as well. That's also a really broad range and generally outside what you would use in everyday shooting (typically in the 28-135 range). As I indicated in my PM, I went with a 24-85 lens which, with the image multiplication factor of 1.6 gives me a lens of 38-136. In 90% of my shots, this is well within that range. The rest fall into my 75-300 zoom (120-480) range.

Again, if you have any more questions, please ask, and best of luck in your decision.

[Jim Becker]

Dennis, the 18-55mm (probably equivalent to 28-70mm in 35mm format) is probably fine for general purposes, but might be a little limiting for some shots including projects and "wildlife" pics. But a 28-300mm is a big-butt lense and may be cumbersome to handle at times. Further, at 300mm, you'll not be wanting to be hand-held. Something the equivalent of 28-210mm might be more comfortable for general use if you want "one" lense. I don't know what's available in the Canon stable for that, maybe Glenn can make some suggestions. You also want to pay attention the quality of the optics...I suspect that Canon is like Nikon with both "budget" and "high quality" optics in similar lenses. IMHO, it's better to invest in one good lense (after all, that's what actually makes the picture swing!) than multiple medeocre lenses. I made that mistake years ago with my film SLR when I bought a less-than-high-quality zoom lense based on price. It worked. (Still does) But the images are noticably inferior to those taken with a good lense.

[Bart Sharp]

Don,

Sounds like you and I need to talk. ;)
I have decided on the Canon Rebel. I can get a 512MB CF Card from ibuydigital.com for $130 and Royal Camera as the camera with 18-55mm EF-S Lens for $649. If there is a better "general purpose" lens to start out with, then I want to know. I have a budget to work with and it is TIGHT.!!!

Would it be better if I left off the stock lens and got this instead:

Canon EOS Digital Rebel Body
New! 28-300 3.5-6.3 Auto focus Lens

<b>What say ye Mr. Don.!???</b>


I hope no one minds me jumping in here. It has been a few years, but I used to make a living behind a camera. My beef with lenses like that 28-300mm is the variable aperture. A maximum f6.3 is very slow, especially considering that you will have to shoot at 1/500 sec or better at 300mm to keep shake down (IS not withstanding). With that kind of shutter speed/aperture combination, you're talking about only shooting in very bright sunlight or using a very high effective ISO setting and suffering the additional noise.

And for the average shmoe on a budget (and I count myself in that category), there are several lens brands that are more than acceptable. Sigma and Tamron both make very good lenses that sell for fractions of what their Canon or Nikon counterparts fetch. Yes, the lens determines to large extent the sharpness, contrast, and other technical aspects of the image. And yes, a trained eye can spot differences between some Sigma lenses and some camera-brand glass. But unless you plan on blowing your pictures up to poster size or entering photos in technical competitions, the difference probably isn't worth the extra cost. There are highly acclaimed photographers who shoot with plastic lens point and shoot cameras, because in the final analysis the nut behind the eyepiece is even more important to the quality of the picture than the lens.

And I swear I'm not here just being disagreeable, but I disagree with the earlier statement that Canon has better lens compatibility that Nikon. When Canon went to autofocus, they changed their lens mount so that MF lenses won't fit any AF bodies. Nikon chose to keep backwards compatibility with MF lenses on new AF bodies. The result was that the Canon AF system was more optimized, but Nikon shooters didn't have to invest in all new glass to update their bodies. Nikon has started to drift away from 100% compatibility lately in that some of the new whizbang bodies won't meter with a MF lens mounted. But, importantly I think, the MF lenses will still mount and work just fine if you use an external meter or Sunny-16 to set your exposures. Used MF Nikon lenses are readily available and relatively inexpensive, so someone who wants to build a good set of equipment on a budget would be well served to look in that direction.

I say all of this as someone who used to shoot Canon F-1's when it was my job and has since bought and hated a Nikon N80. I am also in the market for a digital SLR. I think the Nikon D70 is technically superior (higher flash synch, better buffer, etc), but probably not enough so to justify the cost for what I do now. If someone slipped a little extra cash in my pay envelope this week, I would buy the D70. If I have to scrimp and save and earn it the old fashioned way, I would go buy the D-Rebel and a couple of Sigma lenses. I'm not sure what type of photography you have in mind, so I wouldn't know what focal range to suggest. Just remember the crop factor with the digital sensors, if you want wide angle you have to buy really wide.

[Dennis Peacock]

I hope no one minds me jumping in here. It has been a few years, but I used to make a living behind a camera. My beef with lenses like that 28-300mm is the variable aperture. A maximum f6.3 is very slow, especially considering that you will have to shoot at 1/500 sec or better at 300mm to keep shake down (IS not withstanding). With that kind of shutter speed/aperture combination, you're talking about only shooting in very bright sunlight or using a very high effective ISO setting and suffering the additional noise.

I say all of this as someone who used to shoot Canon F-1's when it was my job and has since bought and hated a Nikon N80. I am also in the market for a digital SLR. I think the Nikon D70 is technically superior (higher flash synch, better buffer, etc), but probably not enough so to justify the cost for what I do now. If someone slipped a little extra cash in my pay envelope this week, I would buy the D70. If I have to scrimp and save and earn it the old fashioned way, I would go buy the D-Rebel and a couple of Sigma lenses. I'm not sure what type of photography you have in mind, so I wouldn't know what focal range to suggest. Just remember the crop factor with the digital sensors, if you want wide angle you have to buy really wide.

Bart,

Just jump on in here buddy.!!!! My primary use for this camera will be general photography of family and friends. Ya know....the usual brithday pics, family camping trip, visiting family in another state, and WOODWORKING pics of pens, and projects completed.

Now.....you got a recommendation on a lens? ;)

[Glenn Clabo]

When Canon went to autofocus, they changed their lens mount so that MF lenses won't fit any AF bodies. .Bart...all good points and I sure don't want to get into an arguement about what make of camera is better for what reasons. It's far too technical and complicated for most people who want to just do what Dennis wants.

But...just to clear up you're above statement...I can use all my old Canon MF lenses on all my cameras...even the D60 I have right now. Adapters are cheap.

Dennis...
See what I mean? :confused: There may be more ideas and opinions about cameras than there are about woodworking tools.

Can I make a few suggestions? Decide on a price range (and try to stick to it)...Go to a camera store...play with the ones in your range...decide where you want to buy it...buy it and shoot away. If you get a name brand camera...with the same brand lense...or a good name lense like Sigma...you'll be showing off your family and woodworking right off the bat. And that's all that counts.

(This is from someone who has taught photography and really tries to stay out of brand discussions. I've seen some amazing work done with cameras that have names nobody would know.)

[Bart Sharp]

Bart...all good points and I sure don't want to get into an arguement about what make of camera is better for what reasons. It's far too technical and complicated for most people who want to just do what Dennis wants.

But...just to clear up you're above statement...I can use all my old Canon MF lenses on all my cameras...even the D60 I have right now. Adapters are cheap.

Dennis...
See what I mean? :confused: There may be more ideas and opinions about cameras than there are about woodworking tools.

Can I make a few suggestions? Decide on a price range (and try to stick to it)...Go to a camera store...play with the ones in your range...decide where you want to buy it...buy it and shoot away. If you get a name brand camera...with the same brand lense...or a good name lense like Sigma...you'll be showing off your family and woodworking right off the bat. And that's all that counts.

(This is from someone who has taught photography and really tries to stay out of brand discussions. I've seen some amazing work done with cameras that have names nobody would know.)

I totally agree that there is no one brand better or worse than another, only different. And I had no idea that adapters were available for mounting MF Canon lenses to AF bodies. Like I said before, I was always a Canon guy, but switched to Nikon when I finally went AF partially because of the compatibility with old (cheaper) used MF lenses. Sounds like I may have missed the boat there. Do the adapters cost you an f-stop the way converters do, or are they just a mechanical linkage? Are all metering functions retained? If I could get an adapter that would allow me to use my 135mm f2.8 MF on a D-Rebel, I'd be in heaven. That is like my favorite lens ever.

Dennis, for those kind of family/friend/party/event pictures, for a zoom I like something that goes somewhere in the 24-80mm range or so. The problem with the APS size digital sensors is that you have to have something around a 17-50mm lens to get the same range, and lenses that wide are a little less common and a little more expensive. In the Sigma line I would look at the 17-35 mm f2.8-4.0, or the 20-40mm f2.8. Personally I like the constant f2.8 maximum aperture because I hate to use flash in any kind of candid shooting, but you pay an extra $160 or so and lose a few mm of focal length on the wide end to get it.

But if it were me, for that kind of shooting, I think I would forego the zoom altogether and get the 20mm f1.8 fixed focal length. It's not as wide as I would like, but it is very fast and fairly inexpensive. There is a 14mm f2.8, but you're starting to talk big bucks when you go that wide.

I would avoid any of the lenses that are specifically designed for digital cameras. From what I have seen they are less expensive, but they are designed to cover just the smaller APS sized sensor. At some point full-size 35 mm sensors are going to come down in price within reach of the common man, and your digital lenses won't work unless you like big black vignettes. I certainly don't buy top of the line lenses, but what I do buy I plan to keep forever or until they wear out, whichever comes first. I think buying the digital lenses is just setting yourself up to buy the same thing twice.

And Glenn is absolutely right about picking up the cameras in your price range and buying what feels right. Personally, the control layout on the new Nikons is more intuitive to me than the new Canons. Neither of them is as intuitive as a Canon F-1 or a Nikon FE2. The new Canon layout is nothing that I couldn't get used to with a little practice, and there are plenty of people who feel the opposite way. But like they say about guns, the right camera is the one that you are comfortable enough with to be carrying when you need it.

[Jim Becker]

Dennis, for those kind of family/friend/party/event pictures, for a zoom I like something that goes somewhere in the 24-80mm range or so. The problem with the APS size digital sensors is that you have to have something around a 17-50mm lens to get the same range, and lenses that wide are a little less common and a little more expensive. Bart the "standard" lense on both the Digital Rebel and the Nikon D70 pretty much fit that description. My D70 came with an 18-70mm ED DX lense specifically designed for the digital CCD. It's pretty much the equivalent of a 28-105mm lense at 35mm but physically smaller and lighter. The Nikor 70-300mm ED lense I bought as an additional accessory translates to about 105-450mm...and really does require a tripod and lots of light when "movement" is involved!

[Dennis Peacock]

Great info here guys.!!!!

BUT.....

Let me back up here a sec.....

1. I'm not a pro photograper.
2. My only "real" camera is a Canon AE-1 from 1978 that I bought when stationed overseas.
3. I have a VAST array of lenses and filters that I bought when I bought the camera.
4. The AE-1 SLR camera still works very well today. All I have EVER done to it is replace the battery in the camera 3 times since 1978.
5. I just want to takes good pics of my woodworking stuff that will show decent to good quality wood grain patterns to post on my web site as well as have good quality pics of the kids and family and the occassional pic of the great outdoors.
6. I'm not up to spending $2K on a new camera or various lenses, filters, batteries, memory cards and such.

Most of all, I did NOT want to start a war of the brands for camera's.

<b>What I do want, is recommendations</b> for a decent setup, single lens, single camera body, plenty of storage space for many pics and a way to download them to my PC and be able to get them printed at the local Wal Mart when the need arises.

If I bought all that has been recommended so far, I would be spending well over $2K for a camera setup that will be used for "general purposes".

Now...let's try this one more time.......

I'm up to buying the Canon Rebel body.
I'm up to spending money for a good quality lens.
I'm up to spending money for a 512MB or maybe 1G memory card or SanDisk for the camera depending on price.
I'm up to spending money for a UV filter to protect the lens
I'm up to spending money for a way to download the pics to my pc and upload them to the Photo Print store to get pics printed when necessary.

With these listed items I have just stated...and it was you and you had to be cost concious....what would you do? I will even go as far as saying that I am willing to spring for a 24-85mm USM II lens.

So....what say ye.....I'm just more confused now than ever before. :eek: :rolleyes:

[Zahid Naqvi]

Great info here guys.!!!!

2. My only "real" camera is a Canon AE-1 from 1978 that I bought when stationed overseas.
3. I have a VAST array of lenses and filters that I bought when I bought the camera.
4. The AE-1 SLR camera still works very well today. All I have EVER done to it is replace the battery in the camera 3 times since 1978.
5. I just want to takes good pics of my woodworking stuff that will show decent to good quality wood grain patterns to post on my web site as well as have good quality pics of the kids and family and the occassional pic of the great outdoors.
6. I'm not up to spending $2K on a new camera or various lenses, filters, batteries, memory cards and such.

I'm up to buying the Canon Rebel body.
I'm up to spending money for a good quality lens.
I'm up to spending money for a 512MB or maybe 1G memory card or SanDisk for the camera depending on price.
I'm up to spending money for a UV filter to protect the lens
I'm up to spending money for a way to download the pics to my pc and upload them to the Photo Print store to get pics printed when necessary.



Dennis,
Before I ran into you I was this close to adapting photography as my full time hobby. I am a Canon bigot just because, and I currently use an Elan-7 (the next step up from the Rebel series 35mm.). The AE-1 was the Rebel of it's day, I 've used it and really like it. For your 35 mm. applications if you have a small set of lenses the AE-1 will last you a life time. I am not sure your lenses will work with the Digital Rebel, since the AE-1 is from the the pre USM motor days it may have a different socket for attaching to the body. But this can be easily verified from the Canon website or some of the digital camera review sites.

For what you need I think the digital rebel is an over kill. A decent, 5 mega pixel or so, point and shoot digital with all its built in functions will serve you a long time. With most digitals in that range including 4X or better optical zoom, no other lenses are needed. Digital SLRs are good to have but the difference in quality is not as obvious as photo professionals or manufacturers say it is. Now if you were going to shoot studio portraits, or some difficult lighting conditions, and make huge enlargements I would go Rebel. Other than that lighting will make more difference in the quality of your picture than any thing else between the object and the capture media (film or semiconductor). Lens is the next most important piece of equipment and the actual camera the last. Don't expect the digital camera to serve you as long as the AE-1, due to innovations in digital technology you camera will probably be obsolete in 3-5 years max, even if you buy the top of the line digital SLR. That's why I am not in favor of heavily investing in digital technology while it is obviously still evolving.

The point of my speech is get a point and shoot digital around 5 MP or so and it will come with everything you need; software memory stick etc. Buy some extra memory and you are set for the next 3-5 yrs. Any of the popular brands mentioned by other are great: Canon, Nikon, sony, Olympus, HP etc. Spend the rest of the money on woodworking tools you can pass on to your kids.

just my 2c.
Zahid

[Bart Sharp]

Great info here guys.!!!!

BUT.....

Let me back up here a sec.....

1. I'm not a pro photograper.
2. My only "real" camera is a Canon AE-1 from 1978 that I bought when stationed overseas.
3. I have a VAST array of lenses and filters that I bought when I bought the camera.
4. The AE-1 SLR camera still works very well today. All I have EVER done to it is replace the battery in the camera 3 times since 1978.
5. I just want to takes good pics of my woodworking stuff that will show decent to good quality wood grain patterns to post on my web site as well as have good quality pics of the kids and family and the occassional pic of the great outdoors.
6. I'm not up to spending $2K on a new camera or various lenses, filters, batteries, memory cards and such.

Most of all, I did NOT want to start a war of the brands for camera's.

<b>What I do want, is recommendations</b> for a decent setup, single lens, single camera body, plenty of storage space for many pics and a way to download them to my PC and be able to get them printed at the local Wal Mart when the need arises.

If I bought all that has been recommended so far, I would be spending well over $2K for a camera setup that will be used for "general purposes".

Now...let's try this one more time.......

I'm up to buying the Canon Rebel body.
I'm up to spending money for a good quality lens.
I'm up to spending money for a 512MB or maybe 1G memory card or SanDisk for the camera depending on price.
I'm up to spending money for a UV filter to protect the lens
I'm up to spending money for a way to download the pics to my pc and upload them to the Photo Print store to get pics printed when necessary.

With these listed items I have just stated...and it was you and you had to be cost concious....what would you do? I will even go as far as saying that I am willing to spring for a 24-85mm USM II lens.

So....what say ye.....I'm just more confused now than ever before. :eek: :rolleyes:

For you and me, on a budget, the D-Rebel is the way to go. The extra features on the D70 just don't justify the expense.

If what Glenn said about being able to use manual focus Canon lenses on new AF bodies is true, I would buy the D-Rebel and use the lenses you already have for your AE-1 (which is a great camera BTW, I still have the one I always carried to back up my F-1). You get the new digital body and don't have to spring for even one new lens. Take that money you save and buy two top of the line 512 MB SanDisks. You can save up front by only buying one and getting the other one later when funds allow. The 1 GB cards make me nervous with respect to putting a whole lot of eggs in one basket. Then buy Adobe Photoshop Album. It is a great way to store and organize your digital pictures, plus it has a very easy to use portal for ordering prints (and mugs and calendars and mouse pads....) of the shots you want hard copies of. It also lets you burn the pictures to CD if you'd rather buy prints from Wal-Mart than getting them online.

If you want to buy a new AF lens and the slow maximum aperture of the kit lens (f5.6 @ 55mm) doesn't bother you, get it when you buy the camera. If you're like me and you want something faster, buy the body alone and get the Sigma 20-40mm f2.8 to go with it.

If you use your existing lenses, you're in for an even $1000 plus whatever it costs for Glenn's adapters.
D-Rebel Body Only--$800
PhotoShop Album--$50
SanDisk--$150

If you want the kit lens, that goes up to $1100, and if you prefer one of the Sigma lenses you're at $1500-$1600. Buy any or all of this from a self-respecting camera shop and they'll throw in that UV filter.

To your question of what I would do if I were you, I would buy the D-Rebel body and the memory card and use my existing lenses. I'm hoping Glenn will give some more details on the lens adapters. The slow aperture would stop me from buying the kit lens. And if you ever decide to part with any of your vast collection of MF Canon lenses, let me know! :D

[Rich Konopka]

Now...let's try this one more time.......

I'm up to buying the Canon Rebel body.
I'm up to spending money for a good quality lens.
I'm up to spending money for a 512MB or maybe 1G memory card or SanDisk for the camera depending on price.
I'm up to spending money for a UV filter to protect the lens
I'm up to spending money for a way to download the pics to my pc and upload them to the Photo Print store to get pics printed when necessary.

With these listed items I have just stated...and it was you and you had to be cost concious....what would you do? I will even go as far as saying that I am willing to spring for a 24-85mm USM II lens.

So....what say ye.....I'm just more confused now than ever before. :eek: :rolleyes:Dennis, Just do it !! I bought the Digital Rebel when it first came out last fall and I love it. I also have a Canon Elan 7e which is nearly as nice in respects and much better in other areas. I also have a little Sony DSP-72 3mb and I like that for quick snaps.

I have the 28-300 USM AF lens with a couple of other lenses and I find it to be a real nice lens with great results. Both of my kids play soccer and the zoom is great as well as sitting far back out of the way and snapping pictures at a family gathering. It is a tad slow at times but not overly.

I have a 512mb CF for picks and it holds quite a bit of photos. Make sure you pick up a small CF reader to transfer to your PC.

If you have not chose a merchant to purchase the setup I recommend B&H Photo out of NYC. I don't think anyone will disagree with the service and integrity of this outfit. They are the Lee Valley of Photo equipment.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home/

No affililation with B&H.

This is a great camera and you will enjoy it.

Best Regards,

[Glenn Clabo]

Bart,
I just can't give up my FD 17mm 1:4 so I use the adapter....

Canon one is best...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home;jsessionid=BFV9Djqd3R!-952858947?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=89910&is=REG

Homemade...
http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/text-eos-to-fd-adapter.html

Rich,
I agree...I've spent a whole pantload of greenbacks at B&H...and never had one problem.

[Bart Sharp]

Bart,
I just can't give up my FD 17mm 1:4 so I use the adapter....

Canon one is best...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home;jsessionid=BFV9Djqd3R!-952858947?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=89910&is=REG

Homemade...
http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/text-eos-to-fd-adapter.html

Rich,
I agree...I've spent a whole pantload of greenbacks at B&H...and never had one problem.




Cool links, thanks! It's amazing what some people can do with a box of old parts and a tube of JB Weld. I take it you use the Hama adapter? For someone with an extensive collection of FD's it looks like a great option. One thing I couldn't quite figure out about the Hama from the website, will the camera meter at full aperture and then auto stop-down when the picture is taken?

Honey, I need to buy a digital Rebel..........

[Peter Stahl]

Bart,

I just bought a G5 and if I could have found a vendor like Dennis did selling them that cheep I would have went for the Rebel. I also have a AE-1, would be interesting to know if the adapter functions like you asked.

I also have a question, will the old Speedlite from my AE-1 work on the Rebel?

Pete

[Bart Sharp]

Bart,

I just bought a G5 and if I could have found a vendor like Dennis did selling them that cheep I would have went for the Rebel. I also have a AE-1, would be interesting to know if the adapter functions like you asked.

I also have a question, will the old Speedlite from my AE-1 work on the Rebel?

Pete

Wow, somehow I missed his post on Page 1 about the price he found...that is a great deal! And here I thought it was a good camera at $800.

[Jim Becker]

Wow, somehow I missed his post on Page 1 about the price he found...that is a great deal! And here I thought it was a good camera at $800.
Watch out for shipping/handling fees as well as sales tax when comparing prices. Many camera retailers these days low-ball prices to control Internet search results, but have high S/H that you don't learn about until you have your "cart" filled up! 'One of the reasons I like Ritz for online photo purchases...none of that crap, good service and competitive prices overall. But there are any number of good vendors...just shop wisely.

[Glenn Clabo]

Bart,

I also have a question, will the old Speedlite from my AE-1 work on the Rebel?

Pete
Pete,
Doubt it...E-TTL flashes are compatible, including 380EX, 420EX, 550EX, ST-E2, and macro flash MR-14EX, MT-24EX.

[Glenn Clabo]

Don't get too excited Bart...the new lenses are awesome and the adapter, which has a lense in it to adjust the length, does take some of the old lense perfection away. I think you may just be one who gets bit by the Canon L bug.

And...you may not believe this...but I never paid any attention to what the meter was doing. I revert back to the real old way...manwell...no meter. I'll dig it out and see if I can answer your question.

[Dennis Peacock]

Watch out for shipping/handling fees as well as sales tax when comparing prices. Many camera retailers these days low-ball prices to control Internet search results, but have high S/H that you don't learn about until you have your "cart" filled up! 'One of the reasons I like Ritz for online photo purchases...none of that crap, good service and competitive prices overall. But there are any number of good vendors...just shop wisely.

Very good point Jim. I contacted one "vendor" about price matching for the same exact camera. They promptly said "no" because their mark-up was only 2% less than what they were asking for the camera. They warned me of price scams to only be made up via S/H charges and "other" related charges. One place wanted $74 to ship a camera to me.! :eek: And they are only a few states away from me.

$74 for shipping a camera!!!!! :mad: :eek:
Shoot...I paid $100 to have a 750 Pound lathe shipped from Washington State to Arkansas......Is a camera that much more difficult to ship? :confused:
I think not.

Buyer beware....be very aware...!!!!!!!!!!

[Jim Becker]

Yea, they will squwak about the need for "insurance" and so forth, but that doesn't seem to be an issue for other retailers, such as the one I use. $50-75 to ship a camera via FedEX ground or similar service is just not on the level.

Be also sure that the retailer is officially authorized to sell the brand you are buying...otherwise, warranty headaches can occur.

[Glenn Clabo]

Buyer beware....be very aware...!!!!!!!!!!
Dennis...You are more right than you know. Online camera shopping is a minefield. It is also very subjective...someones best place is someone horror show. I've tried a few camera places mentioned here...but I've had lots of trouble. Sound familar?

The long time large buyer of photo equipment will tend to to say B&H is the best. It is considered the Lee Valley of camera equipment...but Lee Valley has no comparision in any field in mind. I try real hard to find better...but always seem to go back.

The community I hang out with in the photo gear world contribute to and use this site to read the latest.

http://resellerratings.dealtime.com/xPC-Canon_Digital_Rebel_EOS_300D

In the end...it's your money.

[Bart Sharp]

Don't get too excited Bart...the new lenses are awesome and the adapter, which has a lense in it to adjust the length, does take some of the old lense perfection away. I think you may just be one who gets bit by the Canon L bug.

And...you may not believe this...but I never paid any attention to what the meter was doing. I revert back to the real old way...manwell...no meter. I'll dig it out and see if I can answer your question.

No, I do believe you. I never did it on purpose, but there were two occassions when I had to shoot assignments without a meter (once because I didn't pack an extra battery like an idiot, and once because I had to shoot in the rain and the meter didn't take too kindly to it). That was the best thing about the F-1, it could still shoot at all shutter speeds even with all of the electronics fried.

I'm like a few of the other nutjobs out there who dream about a manufacturer coming out with a manual focus digital SLR at a reasonable price point. I love digital, not so crazy about auto focus. Leica has one, but I'd have to sell my wife and daughter to make a down payment.