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Tim Bateson
03-30-2009, 6:05 PM
Over the last few months my day-job has lost several business customers who folded & a couple more who just could no longer pay us - that has finally trickled down hill. :(

So for the 2nd time in 11 months, I'm unemployed. :eek: This time however, there was no severance package :mad: and no one standing in-line for my services - 21 years Oracle Database Administrator & IT Management.

Now I have a choice of eating and having a roof over my head for a couple more months or paying my taxes on April 15th. Guess which one I choose?

My laser business is surviving the recession, but it won't pay the bills. With the economic slowdown it takes care of it-self & that's about all. I would have to run that puppy 16 hours a day & at least 6 days a week to live off of it. Although I keep busy - I'm not even scratching at that level.

Sorry to complain - just needed to get it out.

Advice & job offers are welcome. :o

JohnT Fitzgerald
03-30-2009, 6:08 PM
Hi Tim - I had to read your post a few times, and couldn't get past the 'shaking my head' phase. I hate to see people who WANT to work, unable to work. This economy really has taken its toll. I hope things pick up and turn around for you soon.

Steven Wallace
03-30-2009, 6:31 PM
Tim, My day job is with Intel and I wish I could offer you some solace but I am afraid I may well be in your very same position. We are cutting 350 heads here in Arizona. I wish you the best as I have been in your position twice before. All I can say is that I have made it though both times. However, I am afraid this time could be a lot different. Best wishes to you and your family.

Dave Johnson29
03-30-2009, 6:54 PM
So for the 2nd time in 11 months, I'm unemployed.


Bummer Tim, sorry to hear that. In the best interests of hearing of you continuing to eat...

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4868.pdf

No accountant needed.

Dee Gallo
03-30-2009, 6:57 PM
Tim,

I wish I had advice or a job offer for you. This is terrible, and I'm so sorry it happened to you. I hope your laser will be of some help at least, you never know.

best, dee

Jim Finn
03-30-2009, 7:03 PM
One solution is what millions of people do ....move to where the jobs are. We have lots of work here in Texas although you may have to get your hands dirty. There are many other places in the USA with better work possibilities still and they are listed here:
Unemployment rates - Unemployment rates by state from CNNMoney (http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/state_unemployment/)

Todd Schwartz
03-30-2009, 7:03 PM
Tim,

Sorry to hear about your layoff. I am sitting here today while a major computer company is laying off up to 6000 people. I work for a partner so does not directly effect me, but am seeing a lot of my friends end up in your position.

On a brighter note, are you able to relocate? I have two customers who were looking for Oracle admins, one I know is still trying to fill a Senior Admin position.

PM if you want names.

Todd

Margaret Turco
03-30-2009, 7:05 PM
I'm so sorry Tim. No having a severance package is a really bad situation. I've been laid off twice due to companies closing their divisions here and I know how difficult it can be. I don't have any ideas for you either, but I wish you good luck in finding something soon.

Dan Hintz
03-30-2009, 7:25 PM
I've been in that position three times, myself, possibly four if things don't turn around soon. The most recent hardship is due to the economy as a whole rather than poor leadership on the company's part, but that doesn't make it any easier to swallow. If anything, I'm ticked off at the greedy (and stupid) homeowners who bought too much house, and I'm PO'd at the banking industry that used predatory tactics to get those homeowners as well as relaxing their lending rules too much... at least if it was poor company decisions I could find another company to work for, but being global we're all SOL.

Phyllis Meyer
03-30-2009, 7:32 PM
Sorry to hear about this Tim! I give you so much credit for talking about it, and I hope and pray that more folks will be able to do so. You are not alone, and communication is good. We are a family here and when one of us is hurting, we all do! You will be in our prayers!

Sincerely,
Phyllis:)

Scott Shepherd
03-30-2009, 7:48 PM
Very sorry to hear that Tim. Best of luck trying to skip to the next chapter in your life. I'm sure you'll do just fine. Hang in there.

Steve Clarkson
03-30-2009, 7:52 PM
What Scott said......I couldn't have said it better.

Anthony Welch
03-30-2009, 8:25 PM
I'm sorry for your misfortune. We'll hope and pray things will turn around for you and your family.

Anthony and Amy

Albert Nix
03-30-2009, 8:41 PM
Try to remember that after all is said and done God is in control. Pray for guidance and follow your heart. Diversification may the only way out for a lot of us. Good luck!!

Phil Thien
03-30-2009, 9:15 PM
You are obviously a very smart guy. Have you considered applying for work with the FDIC? They need computer-savvy people. The downside is it requires extensive travel. The upside is, they are hiring.

Stephen Beckham
03-30-2009, 9:25 PM
Tim,

Have you been to USAjobs.com? It's a site that hires for Army Civilian positions - my wife just sent me a copy of a position open here that went from $80K to $110K directly related to IT. She's mad because I won't give up the store front (making $10K a year) and apply for the IT positions opening left and right on base.

I ran IT and Ohio it came up with just under a dozen ranging from $30 up to the $105K range. Give it a look - there are no guarantees, but give them a shot. Sometimes hard to get in the system but the worst they could do is say no.

Oh and by the way - throw your resume out when applying. Read the job description very close - look for and use buzz words in the job description. The first hack of applicants is done by computer solely on buzz words. Then, when the last handful get to the employer, they review and make calls - that's when you can give up a full resume. Too much is... well, too much. You rather get your foot in the door with the bare essentials than 'over qualify' yourself. Don't take it the wrong way, basically, if it asks if you have a degree in computers, don't say yes, and I've got a minor in hockey, a sub-major in baskets etc. etc. etc. The computer will kick it out if it's just looking for the degree in computers - hope that makes sense and doesn't sound like your resume is unimportant. Just trying to say you have to get past resumix (automated resume computer) first - which is over simplified.

Michael Kowalczyk
03-30-2009, 11:09 PM
Hey Tim,
Our prayers are with you also and I firmly believe that when one door closes, God will open another. We just have to be patient sometimes. My brother got let go, Dec 08, from from the IT dept in R & D at Exxon who had the highest profit last year. But R & D is slow now. So he's been applying and interviewing in between his fishing just about very weekend in the Texas gulf coast and filling up his freezer. Well he just landed a job last Friday with the largest container shipping company. It is closer to his home and he can go back roads and get there in 15 minutes instead of fighting the traffic jams into town and with very little pay cut but he said he will save almost 1 1/2 hours a day driving so that more than makes up for it. So there is hope but you may have to move down hear to Texas and if you don't mind, please pick Amarillo if you like it cooler in the winter or if you like it HOT, pick El Paso or South Padre so that you have somewhat uncharted territory and because there are already too many laser heads in the Houston area already to compete with. Just Kidding,:D there's plenty of room here.

Come on down and ...

Tim Bateson
03-30-2009, 11:29 PM
Thank you all for your comments. I've spent the last 8 hours sending my resume to everyone I know and applying to every position I could find. I'll keep you posted. Worst case, I have more time to laser and chat on the Creek. :D

Andy Bardowell
03-31-2009, 12:07 AM
Iím very sorry to hear that Tim, vent all you want man. Check out our company Thomson Reuters, there are many different groups and companies and someone must be looking for an Oracle admin. I searched Oracle and some stuff popped up however I didnít see anything in Ohio. Good luck and good hunting.

http://careers.thomsonreuters.com/

Steve Eide
03-31-2009, 12:52 AM
Hey Tim, I join the others here in hoping you find another open door. I've been through it a few times through mergers and acquisitions and each time it's difficult, but surmountable.

I'll keep on the lookout for anything that matches up for you.

Gary Hair
03-31-2009, 1:41 AM
Tim,
You have my sympathies for your situation, but something you wrote puzzles me...



My laser business is surviving the recession, but it won't pay the bills. With the economic slowdown it takes care of it-self & that's about all. I would have to run that puppy 16 hours a day & at least 6 days a week to live off of it. Although I keep busy - I'm not even scratching at that level.

Why do you think it would take 6, 16 hour days to live off of your business? I would take a serious look at your business and see what you can do to make it viable. If you have the laser, software and ability to run it, you should have little problem making a very good living off of your laser.

Even in the current economic situation, actually, especially in this economic situation, you can find plenty of work if you know where to look. The survivors of this economy are going to have to do more to distinguish themselves from the competition and you have just the tool to help them with that. Look for companies that need your help and show them how you can help them not only survive, but thrive!

If you spend 8 of those 16 hours you mentioned, doing sales calls and marketing your business, you should be very profitable in short order.

Don't make yourself a victim of the recession!!

Gary

Frank Corker
03-31-2009, 5:31 AM
Hey Tim, sorry about your news buddy, it's happening in every part of the world. I'm sure something will come up for you, I hope that it does and wish you every best getting it.

Belinda Williamson
03-31-2009, 9:13 AM
Sorry to hear the bad news Tim. Others have said that when one door closes, another door opens. Sometimes though, you have to look for the door, and turn the knob. If you are not opposed to relocating, cast that resume net far and wide. I know absolutely nothing about your ex "day job" but it sounds pretty high tech, so it seems you would be in demand. I've got my fingers crossed for you!

Chip Peterson
03-31-2009, 10:42 AM
Tim, I am sorry to hear about your misfortune. I just checked my company's internal job postings and unfortunately, I only found one IT job availabe and that is on the east coast. If you'd like information, I'd be happy to pass it on to you.

The dificulty in our current economic enviroment is that there are jobs in certain areas of the country. The reality is that people are loosing jobs elsewhere, and because of the housing market being so bad, they can't move to those areas. Houses aren't selling.

But enough of my pep talk!

Good luck to you Tim. If I can help in some way, please don't hesitate to ask. We are all in this together.

David Fairfield
03-31-2009, 10:43 AM
Yeah I lost my employer a while ago, too. I'm without a boss but not without work. Its been cool. 16/6 is doable, sounds about right for a fledgling business.

Dave

Martin Boekers
03-31-2009, 11:15 AM
Tim, Stephen was right check the Government sites, If you have a military base near you there may be unadvertised job positions available.

Try to get hold of someone at HRO to give specifics about the hiring process. Appropriated fund job are fairly secure and pay well, depending upon position.

A big plus is if you have a security clearance, then you would be available to start immidiatly.

I went through this in 2001 after the towers were hit. I produced trade show graphics (17 Years for one company) so needless to say that industry died quickly and still has not fully recovered. I have been "rediscovering myself" continouisly getting back to commercial photography and short run publishing, when I discovered this engraving job a few years ago. (on a military base) I wasn't even aware at the time that this was available to civilians.

Good luck on your future and spend this transition time wisely.

On the upside this gives you opportunities to explore possibilities that you would have chanced earlier!


Marty

Bob Cole
03-31-2009, 1:26 PM
I wish you the best.

My day job is also IT and my company has decided that if anyone leaves, they will choose not to replace them. It seems that is the theme for companies who would prefer not to layoff. They also put a freeze on capital spending and no new hires.

I get e-mails every few weeks from vendors that know of IT related job losses looking for work.

With large companies not spending, the downward spiral is only going to turn into an unrecoverable flat spin.

Tim Bateson
03-31-2009, 11:18 PM
To clear the air - I have taken no offense to any comments made in this thread.
I appreciate the encouragement and honesty of my fellow Creekers.

John W. Love
04-01-2009, 8:49 PM
Hey Tim,
Really sorry to hear about your situation. I have been in that predicament quite a few times over the years in the tech industry. Unfortunately, I was always in the manufacturing side of technology, so no matter what your manufacturing skills are, there are 100 billion screaming Chinese taking the mfg jobs away from us. But in your field of expertise there are lots of oportunities if you look in the right places.
My last lay-off was in Early December and I decided to look outside of mfg and found a job with a company that handles a significant portion of the lotteries around the world. Oh, including Ohio and New York, and NJ, Fl, IL, Texas and about 25 other states. Also lotteries around the world. I do phone tech support for the retailers and love the job. It's a fun, relaxed atmosphere that really has only one criteria for job and that is to be accurate and thorough with what you do. So, as it was said before, when one door closes another door opens. And good thing about lottery is that when times are tough people play the lottery more trying to get lucky. Downside is I and any member of my household are blacklisted from playing. Upside to that is, I am not having to worry about losing my money gambling lol.
Right now, Austin, Texas is still riding pretty much steady. It's not near as bad here as other parts of the country. And Austin is a tech city. Once again, if you don't mind relocating Austin is a great place to look for someone with your experience. Check out companies like Dell, National Instruments, IBM, 3M, and the gillions of smaller yet still large companies that reside here. IT is always in demand here and a lot of companies use oracle based programs.
Austin has done well by diversifying itself with a large Tech base, plus state and federal, University of Texas which has around 75,000 plus students, Movie industry, research and development, gaming (Sony and Blizzard to name a couple have offices here). I just did a quick search for Oracle jobs available at Statesman.com (local newspaper) and found 25 oracle positions available.
Could be that you find a home with mild winters and ... well ok I won't try to fluff up the summers any. However, the summers aren't as wicked as Houston though. lol And we do have several lakes, rivers and we are at the center of the "golden triangle" meaning you can get to Houston, Dallas or San Antonio in just a few hours.
Psst. Also don't let Steve know this or he will be down here in a heartbeat, but there are herds of beautiful women here. Even if your married it helps improve your eyesight straining to see them all. :D

Steve Clarkson
04-02-2009, 12:22 AM
Psst. Also don't let Steve know this or he will be down here in a heartbeat, but there are herds of beautiful women here. Even if your married it helps improve your eyesight straining to see them all. :D

John,

My flight lands at 10:05am tomorrow......please pick me up at the airport........

Oh, and I expect you to post Saturday's winning Mega Millions jackpot number by 5pm Friday so I can go out and buy the ticket.......come on.....we all know it's rigged!

Dan Hintz
04-02-2009, 7:59 AM
...and found a job with a company that handles a significant portion of the lotteries around the world.
Have my winnings from the Nigerian lottery been transferred to my personal bank account yet? I already gave you the account number and passcode...


While I agree with you on the bevy of beauties there (whoa momma!), I'm not sure I can agree with the stability of Austin. My brother and his family have been there for the last 10 years, and I''ve often looked at moving down, but every time I do I hear about some major tech company laying off (Motorola was the latest I heard from last year, dumped like 5k employees and shut down a division). The housing market didn't have such a wild upswing (nor requisite downswing), so you have that going for you. Lovely place to live, very high-tech infrastructure, but it has a lot of the same employment issues as any high-tech area.

Steven Wallace
04-03-2009, 10:53 PM
Most of the ladies there will answer to Sugar and Darlin'. My wife says not to forget that requisite southern hospitality is always in play. Y'all know what I mean. I used to service the semiconductor industry down there, AMD at the time. There is also Semitech. I have had several friends move there and have of them have since relocated to other locals. I really do not know if there is a safe place in this economy. If it is any solice, I have been laid off for significant amounts of time twice in my life and I have always rebound. I am certain that with your resolve the same will manifest itself for you. Always wishing those suffering at this time the best.

Glenn Corser
04-03-2009, 11:28 PM
Tim,

You have my sympathy, it has been a long time since I've been on the short end of the no job stick but I remember those times very well. I'm in tech, in Austin, and I have to second what John has said. If you can/want to move then consider Austin. Housing is still low, there is a wide diversity of tech jobs here, lots of Oracle work, and it is just a real nice place to live. I got here in 73 and except for 3 yrs in Allentown, PA have been in Central Texas ever since. Good luck and like everyone else, I'll be pulling for you.

Tim Bateson
05-07-2009, 11:11 AM
Iíve received several PMs and emails from this community & I do appreciate the encouragement. Thank you.
Day 38 Update:
I did pay my taxes, which was a drain, but I had to avoid those late fees and interest.:mad:
I had a job offer last week, however on Monday they called and wanted to drastically cut the rate they had previously offered. I may be in a bad position, but I canít work for a company that would try to take advantage of the unemployed.

To make matters worse, laser sales have fallen to near Zero. Ironic as Iím now out every week working cold-calls.:confused:

My chin is still up and Iím losing very little sleep over it Ė Iíve been dealt lemons before & no matter how bleak things look, in time they do work out. Maybe not in the way we had expected, but I am an optimistic personÖ except on the current economy. :o

My advice for all of you Ė Cut ALL luxury expenses & Save, Save, Save!!!!!! One never knows when the rug will be pulled out from under you.

Dave Johnson29
05-07-2009, 11:37 AM
Hi Tim,

Good to hear you are still hanging in there. Very happy to hear you got the Taxes out of the way. Those fines and interest can add up fast. Had a friend many years back who said "to hell with the IRS," he is still paying for that privilege.

Also excellent to see the stand on principle regarding the potential job. Proud of you man!! That takes courage when in your situation. Give up your principles and you have very little left.

Cold calls are tough but only the tough get results. Anyone can quit when things get tough, hell that's easy.

Keep at it.

Belinda Williamson
05-07-2009, 2:03 PM
Ditto what Dave said!

Tim Bateson
05-20-2009, 12:50 PM
Day 51 Update

I landed a new day-job, starting on May 26th. It’s been a long 2 months & I’m ready to get back to work. Unfortunately my laser business also died over the past 2 months and I got to the point that I was preparing to sell my laser to pay my mortgage.

Over the past couple months I did make a few deals with some resellers & trophy shops, but they are now telling me nothing is selling right now. The great news here is I owe nothing for my equipment, so I can keep my business/hobby and wait out this dry spell until things pick up again.

Thanks again to the well-wishers here at the Creek.

Mike Null
05-20-2009, 1:43 PM
Tim
Great news!
Good luck!

Dee Gallo
05-20-2009, 1:56 PM
Congrats, Tim! It's good to know you landed on your feet again... and you still have your laser!

cheers, dee

Scott Challoner
05-20-2009, 2:06 PM
Congratulations Tim.

5 years ago, I was laid off two weeks before our second son was born so I know how stressful the whole thing can be. Glad you landed on your feet and can keep lasering.

Steve Clarkson
05-20-2009, 2:35 PM
Congrats Tim! That's great news!

I just read in our local paper that there were 277 census taker jobs available and they had almost 3,000 people apply ($12/hr for 7-10 weeks).....it's not good out there.

I'm finding that NO ONE is buying anything either......are other people seeing that too?

Dan Hintz
05-20-2009, 3:34 PM
I thought I was going to weather the storm, but I was handed the rusted shovel (as opposed to a golden parachute) early last week :( I thought I had one or two companies happy to claim my skill set, but one has already said 'no' and the second seems to be dragging their feet. I hate to suck on the government teet, but it's time for (at least some of) my tax dollars to end up back in my pocket.

Steve Clarkson
05-20-2009, 4:29 PM
Dan, I'm really sorry to hear that.

Dee Gallo
05-20-2009, 4:35 PM
wow, Dan, not you too! :(

Let's hope you make a recovery like Tim did.

Scott Shepherd
05-20-2009, 4:40 PM
I don't know how old Dan is (looks like he's about 19 in person), but in talking to him personally at the meetup a few weeks back and reading his post, the guy has WAYYYYYY too much information in his head. He'll find a good job, no doubt. Very smart guy. Someone will snatch him up.

Dan Hintz
05-20-2009, 5:23 PM
19? Really?! :eek: I need to start hitting on teenagers again... oh wait, no, I'd likely go to jail for that ;) I have my 37th in August... I think... the mind isn't what it used to be.

I knew the layoffs were coming, but I hoped they would pass me by (I started looking 1.5 months ago, just in case). No suck luck. Last Monday they started walking people down the green mile. We were escorted back to our desks, handed a box, and not allowed to touch our computers. We weren't even allowed to say goodbye to anyone. It was one of the most rigid and cold dismissals I've ever been through (this being my fourth layoff... the life of an engineer is NOT all warm and fuzzy).

I have spent the last two weeks doing nothing but job searching, with a sanity-retaining surf of SMC roughly once a night. My parents were here for a visit the last few days, so entertaining the parental units was also in order. LED Orders are backing up, and that's not how I want to treat customers. I need sleep! And a job!

Tim Bateson
05-20-2009, 6:27 PM
Dan, Youíre in the right location. There seems to be a lot of openings in the DC area. When I was first out of work, my phone was silent and nobody was hiring. Then one day the phone started ringing and I found several positions to pick from.

I know what you mean about falling behind on your laser work. I find that Iím most efficient when working both my day-job and engraving. When I got the boot it threw my whole routine off and I got very little done.

Good luck in your search.

Mike DeRegnaucourt
05-20-2009, 6:48 PM
Congrats on the new job Tim!

Paul Brinkmeyer
05-20-2009, 7:12 PM
We were escorted back to our desks, handed a box, and not allowed to touch our computers. We weren't even allowed to say goodbye to anyone. It was one of the most rigid and cold dismissals I've ever been through (this being my fourth layoff... the life of an engineer is NOT all warm and fuzzy).



What got me, was when I was "RIF"ed...it was like it is catchy, most of the people that I thought were my freinds, some for over 30 years, would not even return phone calls. And 2 years later still don't.

I never have figured this out.

Dan Hintz
05-20-2009, 9:48 PM
One of the other software guys (a coworker who has been there less time than me) was forced into being my escort. It was his job to make sure I didn't steal any company equipment, he had to go through every piece of paper I wanted to take home to make sure it didn't include company info, etc. I felt really bad for the guy... he was forced to walk a coworker out, and IMO that showed extreme poor taste on the part of the company. But I probably shouldn't have expected much better as more and more of the corporate culture took over out company.

Dan Hintz
05-20-2009, 10:01 PM
Tim,

Plenty of jobs, but the vast majority of them are either 60 miles away in VA (going through DC, which means a 2.5 hour drive each way) or require a clearance. I'm kicking myself I didn't take a position that would lead to a clearance earlier in my career, but what can you do. I was told earlier today I'm perfect for a series of positions just a few miles from here... except for my lack of experience with Java. Freakin' Java!!! I thought its popularity waned after the dot-com crash on the late 90s... evidently Java is the new "black" for certain governmental programs.

John W. Love
05-20-2009, 10:52 PM
Congrats on the new job! I know it has been tough and a bit scarey. But sometimes it is a test of your faith, your attitude and your self worth, but in the end when you ride out that test you become stronger and much wiser! The lessons learned best are the ones that are learned the hard way.
And yes, you have a good point about cutting out the luxeries right now, squirrel away some $$ for the future.

Tim Bateson
04-01-2010, 5:04 PM
BAM!!! 3rd year in a row! Another company, another lost contract. Grrrrr This downsizing crap is getting a bit old! :mad:

Mike Null
04-01-2010, 7:25 PM
Tim

sorry to hear your news.

Just read in the Dayton paper (my hometown) where GE is going to open a large facility in the Dayton area thanks to Ohio kicking in about $7 million.

Ron Chapellaz
04-01-2010, 7:59 PM
I've been coming in the forum here since I got my laser late last year. I just read this whole thread today as it came to light once again. Sorry to hear the bad news again Tim.
We faired better here in Canada for the most part during the economic downturn. My wife works in the "computer world" too and this year was the first year that there were no raises. We're certainly not complaining. These days we all have to be grateful to have employment. Keep your chin up. Just reading all of these posts, it sure shows the support fellow creakers have for one another. If only "the corporate world" would show the same level of support I think we'd all live in a better world...

Best of luck in finding a job Tim!

Tim Bateson
04-01-2010, 9:17 PM
I'm a bit better off this year. Last year I came back from lunch and was given my last pay check & my walking papers - no vacation or separation pay. This year I have nearly 4 weeks of vacation to fall back on. That was one of my conditions of employment, I had 2 weeks in the books on day 1 of employment + 4 a year.

Randy Digby
04-01-2010, 9:41 PM
Hi Tim - PM sent.

Tim Bateson
04-02-2010, 6:36 PM
Good news - my company has decided to keep me on payroll for awhile while they search for new work for me. I don't know if they'll find anything, but at least the paychecks will continue.

Dave Russell Smith
04-02-2010, 7:59 PM
Just keep busy , I've been out of work now for 352 days :eek:
I just fill in my days doing volunteer work and playing on the laser until I get a break :rolleyes:

Ron Chapellaz
04-02-2010, 8:08 PM
I guess that's a bit of a better break Tim. If only other companies would be so generous, and not kick your butt to the curb. It makes me feel lucky to be self-employed.

Darren Null
04-03-2010, 3:59 AM
Have you tried any of the freelance sites? freelancer.com isn't all that, but I've found a new one: odesk.com where there are a few decent jobs. You have to take a couple of loss-leading jobs to get some ratings behind you, but that doesn't have to take long. It's reasonably stressful, but there are good gigs to be had.