SawStop PCS Dedicated Thread

[Frank Trinkle]

Starting this thread because the other one is getting too confusing to follow!

Rob and Paul,

I'm assuming you had to get your own 220 plug? I have the three-prong twist lock system in my garage. And... having seen your posts, I guess I need to make a trip to HD or Lowes and get 12-15 ft of 12/3 (Some more neon yellow in my shop.. Yayyy!!)

Never saw the Oshlun Dado set before, but just looked at reviews at Rockler and Amazon. Nice price and great reviews! Sigh... another $85.00 outbound!

[Paul Ryan]

Starting this thread because the other one is getting too confusing to follow!

Rob and Paul,

Never saw the Oshlun Dado set before, but just looked at reviews at Rockler and Amazon. Nice price and great reviews! Sigh... another $85.00 outbound!

Frank,

Hopefully you didn't buy the dado set yet. Go to holbren.com. He has the best price on the set, plus you can use code SMC10 to get another 10% off. Shipping is really fast from them too.

I had a 220 line for my SC saw alreay. But I needed to add a
longer cord to my saw. The one that it came with is only 6ft, too short. I went to HD and bought the real nice rubber weather proof 14/3 cord, it was about .86 a foot. That cord is a lot more flexable when cold. And a plug for the wall. I dont use the twist lock but you can get that end from HD too. The manuel for the saw says if you stay under 25 ft you can use 14 guage. That is the size wire that was on the saw. If you go over 25 ft then you need 12. But for the outlet on the wall you will need 12/3 for 220 20 amps. The motor only pulls 13 at start up so a 20 amp breaker is plenty.

[Frank Trinkle]

Frank,

Hopefully you didn't buy the dado set yet. Go to holbren.com. He has the best price on the set, plus you can use code SMC10 to get another 10% off. Shipping is really fast from them too.



Awesome! Thanks for that tip... didn't know about that company. Just bought the Dado set there and added some Whiteside Bit Sets as well!

Home Depot in a bit to buy cord and plug!

Thanks!

[Dan T Jones]

I was told by Dylan the plug is a nema 6-15p.

On another subject to those that have their units set up what is your impression of the fence especially as compared to a Biesmier.

I'm at the tail end of this not expecting my saw to ship until 4/15.

[Rob Price]

Lowes had what they call "portable cord" that seems to be designed for power cords- black outer sheath, very flexible, braided copper, similar to what comes on the saw. I went ahead and bought 12/3 b/c I couldn't remember if the manual said 14g or 12g.

The only fence I can compare it to is my aluminum contractor saw fence, and it's much better. I think it's the same T-Glide fence that comes with the contractor SawStop. I'm very happy with it.

I set up that dado set today, nice cuts. I made some with a router and some with the dado set, and I couldn't tell the difference. I like this set because it's set up for plywood- doing a full stack for 3/4 actually put me at 23/32 which is nice. I can add the 3/32 chipper for a full 3/4 when I need it.

I've spent a full two days on the saw and I'm sold on it.

[George Morris]

Hi Frank also looking for a dado for PSS Did you buy the 8" and is that the right one for a 10"PSS Saw? George

[Frank Trinkle]

Yup... all 10" TS's use 8" Dado's. The recommendation to go to holbren.com was awesome. Best price by far for the Oshlun dado set. Selling my Grizzly Dado Set (New Unused) in the Classifieds as a result!

Cheers

[Andrew Taft]

Still working on building mine up. Anybody know if you can put a router plate in the extension table? or is this not a good idea?

thanks,
andrew

[Frank Trinkle]

I'll be putting in a router "TABLE" on the Right side in place of the extension from Incra. Got the full TS-LS system.

[Rob Price]

I have been contemplating this, I'm sure you can. I would probably beef up the support underneath. I've seen pics of it done.

I'd hate to tear up that nice table though. I'd be careful not to chip out the plastic on top.

I've decided it's time for a dedicated router station, ala Norm. A good project to break in the new saw.

[Paul Ryan]

I was told by Dylan the plug is a nema 6-15p.

On another subject to those that have their units set up what is your impression of the fence especially as compared to a Biesmier.

I'm at the tail end of this not expecting my saw to ship until 4/15.


Dan,

The fence is growing on me. At first I didn't really like it. But I am starting to accept it. You have to understand I was using a SC saw with their industrial fence. To me that is the best fence system out there period. The faces are super durable, the fence is beefy, and it slides super smoothly. The problem I am having with the SS fence is slop before it is locked down. I like my fences to slide smooth, but have very little slop before locking down. With the SS fence right now in order to get it to slide smooth it has a fair amount of slop before locking down. If you DONT hold the fence tight to the rail when pushing the lock lever it can and has moved on me. It is more an annoying thing than a functional problem. Once locked it holds tight and faces are smooth. I wish the faces were plastic like the SC, I may order some of those and put them on. If I tighten the slop out of the fence it doesn't slide smooth. The reason this is happening is because the way it came adjusted one of the screws is much farther out than the other. I think if I play with it I can get the adjustments much more uniform and then I can take more of the slop out. I just haven't had time for that. Right now it is adjusted so the slides are about 1/16 away from the rail when locked. I think I should be able to take that in half if I play with it. I wanted to use the saw now and these are just pet peves the fence does it's job well.

And the saw, HO HO HO, it is a keeper. It seems to have lots more power than my 3 hp SC, it cut 7/4 hickory with the stock blade like butter. The dust collection is better than the SC, and the fit and finish is 2nd to none. The mobile base is real nice, just wish it had 4 swivle casters instead of 2. All in all I am very happy. I will have more to praise or complain about next week.

[Rob Price]

Paul, I used my putty knife to set the fence up, it's less than 1/16 and doesn't seem to have much slop when I move it. I didn't really look at the bolts on the fence. In every review I've read of the previous models, the fence has been a strong point- so I'm guessing you can tweak it and get it like you want it.

I was hoping the faces would be plastic, but it looks like melamine covered plywood (for those of you who don't have theirs yet).

I went out and bought a dial indicator today. For some reason I always thought they were very expensive. I needed a router bit for a project, and right next to it was a shop fox indicator and magnetic base. Now I just need to figure it out.

I'm liking the riving knife, I had to resaw some 1" strips of walnut 1/4 thick from my 3/4 stock. I used pieces at least 2" wide so the blade was never exposed. The ripped strips came out looking great, needing just a bit of sanding. No pinching or burning on the blade.

The brake isn't as obtrusive as I thought it would be. I can go from SS blade, to my combo, to my ripping, to my dado set without any adjustments (except for swapping in the dado brake of course). I really like the clamp on the insert as well.

Now if I could just get it to clean up the shop while I'm gone it would be perfect....

EDIT: I did remove the anti-kickback pawls. The spring is set too tight- they left decent marks in some red oak I was ripping. I'm going to see if I can reduce the spring tension. Really, the pawls are barbed, I wonder if they would work without a spring at all?

[Dan T Jones]

Paul,

I have a Sears 22124 with a true Biesmier fence. When I saw the difference between the contractor fence(now evidently on the PCS) and Industrial model fence it was substantial. The rails are of much thinner steel than the ICS or Biesmier. I'm glad to hear it growing on you. I inquired into not buying the PCS fence and putting an aftermarket fence on of my choosing but no deal. I certainly could understand this policy as they want us to test the full package offered. Frank I think will have the best of these worlds with his Incra.

It would be interesting to know what table saw all of us testers have been using since this so greatly colors our reactions to the PCS.

[Rob Price]

I moved up from a Ridgid 3650 contractor saw. Before that I had a Ryobi but it's barely worth mentioning- basically a circular saw mounted upside down on an aluminium table.

[Frank Trinkle]

I had... and HAVE... a Bosch 4100DG-09 Contractor that is basically brand new. (less than 10BF through it) Got this deal on the PCS before I really started using the Bosch.

It's FOR SALE!!! NOW!!! Get it outa here!! NEED ROOM! (Lots of extras and a GREAT price on CL in Valdosta GA!)

[Paul Ryan]

Paul,

I have a Sears 22124 with a true Biesmier fence. When I saw the difference between the contractor fence(now evidently on the PCS) and Industrial model fence it was substantial. The rails are of much thinner steel than the ICS or Biesmier. I'm glad to hear it growing on you. I inquired into not buying the PCS fence and putting an aftermarket fence on of my choosing but no deal. I certainly could understand this policy as they want us to test the full package offered. Frank I think will have the best of these worlds with his Incra.

It would be interesting to know what table saw all of us testers have been using since this so greatly colors our reactions to the PCS.

Dan,

I think the Fence that cam with my PCS saw is better than a Bies. I am not a fan of Bies fences at all. I think they slide too harshly, I don't like the faces on them, and I think they are too difficult to adjust. This saw is better than all of those impressions. It slides very, very smoothly (but at this point that has come at at price with my fence), they faces are slicker than a Bies(but they are still wood), and it is very easy to adjust. I disagree completely that this fence is much lighter duty than a bies. I cannot honesty see a differece between this fence and the one on the ICS. The rails are 3/16 steel, the tube is substantial, and legs on the fence are 3/16 steel. What is not to like. For me I haven't been able to adjust the slop out of the fence, that bothers me. That is the same problem I have seen on a lot of bies fences. I really think it maybe I just dont have it adjusted to were I would like it. I had my SC fence adjusted so it took a gorilla to push the handle down to lock it. I don't have this one adjusted that way. It doesn't take much to push that handle down, but it locks solid, very solid.

It is just something new. And will take some getting use to. I have just wrote about my personal 1st impressions. As I have stated before I think the SC fence is the best fence avilable bar none. Before I bought my SC saw I looked at a shop fox, a jet exacta, a powermatic accu fence, and a bies. The bies was my least favorite. But the slickness of the SC and how strongly it clamped, the weight and heft of it impressed me. And the plastic faces were just icing on the cake. And I also bought the granite top which I absolutely loved. I had come to really like that fence. This SS package is an excellent machine. I am waiting to here some more 1st time impressions from other testers, that are as critical as I am.

[Dan T Jones]

Paul,
That is very encouraging. You have me at a great disadvantage as you have your saw and I am waiting for mine. What started me on this is the comparison info Dylan sent me:

Fence and rails
· Industrial Series Fence
o 3 mm gauge fence tube
o 3mm gauge main tube
o 6 mm gauge front rail
o 6mm gauge rear rail
· Professional Series Fence
o 2 mm gauge fence tube
o 3mm gauge main tube
o 4 mm gauge front rail
o 4mm gauge rear rail


As you can see a 2mm difference between the rails seemed substantial. From what you are saying maybe they did put the ICS rails and fence on the PCS.

[Rob Price]

It may be a decent difference mathematically, but the rails feel heavy and sturdy. Mounted to the table I can't imagine them flexing. You could probably lift the table with them. The manual says you can lean it over on them. The fence feels solid when locked down as well, I can't appreciate any flex.

I'll slap the calipers on the fence/rails when I get home tonight.

[Frank Trinkle]

I sent in a long feedback and 1st impressions email to SawStop this morning. By this afternoon, I had received three emails from different people within the company all addressing one note or another from my feedback.

The last one was from the Vice President, who stated that we will be getting nice bound Owner's Manuals when the production model is released, and they will be revising the setup procedure for the mobile unit based upon our experiences with installing while the cabinet is still on its side.


We also agree that if you purchase the mobile base at the same time as the saw, it is much easier to install the mobile base before lifting it upright. Therefore, we are revising our assembly instructions accordingly.

It's nice to know that the company is listening to our observations and making changes accordingly.

[Andy Sowers]

For those of you who have already setup your PCS, how did you level your extension wings relative to the main table?

I used my LeeValley straightedge and some feeler gauges to get things close. I used a piece of wood and a dead blow hammer to get everything level. In most cases I was able to get everything flat within 0.003, I assume that's close enough without going OCD. What say you?

Oh, I didnt have to shim the extension wings either, simply bolting it up got things real close, the remainder was pretty much leveled out when attaching the rails (per the assembly instructions).

The wooden extension table was a bit of a different story. That was much more of a pain.

[Paul Ryan]

For those of you who have already setup your PCS, how did you level your extension wings relative to the main table?

I used my LeeValley straightedge and some feeler gauges to get things close. I used a piece of wood and a dead blow hammer to get everything level. In most cases I was able to get everything flat within 0.003, I assume that's close enough without going OCD. What say you?

Oh, I didnt have to shim the extension wings either, simply bolting it up got things real close, the remainder was pretty much leveled out when attaching the rails (per the assembly instructions).

The wooden extension table was a bit of a different story. That was much more of a pain.

Andy,

That is exactly what I did to level my wings. Minus the dead blow hammer. But do what you have to. I leveled mine until I couldn't get a .003 feeler guage under the lee valley straight edge. I figured that was close enough. I am not a profectionist. The .002 is next to nothing. I worked longer on the tabel too. I got it close to about .004, but the center of the table is not flat it drops off as you go away from the extension wing.

I guess that since all of the field test saws had been spoken for. Those of you that are concerned about the fence will be able to check it out before you buy the saw. If I get a chance tonight I will go out and see if I can get mine adjusted.

[Barry Vabeach]

Frank, who did you send your email to? I thought the original email said we would get a questionare, but I didn't see one so far. Just got mine late this afternoon - I took about 1 1/2 hours to get the saw and extension tables, etc put together . I haven't attacked the fence system and will try to get that done tonight.

[Ed Calkins]

For those of you who have already setup your PCS, how did you level your extension wings relative to the main table?



I found it easiest to align the center part of the extensions to the table (more or less held by center two bolts) and then aligned the front and back edge with the help of a clamp and tightened the outside bolts. That allowed me to align the extensions with the table edge. Next (I got pulled off the project) I hope to make the extensions align (flat) to the table using the fence rails. Where I had a problem was the attaching bolts (M8x16mm) were too short when the flat and lock washers were used. Difficult to start and even with the lock wshr compressed there were not enough threads (in my opinion) engaged. The SS tech agreed they were too short and said he would send me 20mm bolts (I had already swapped some with the switch box bolts which were allen head but were 20mm. I am thinking I need a better straight edge that is at least 36" long to really setup the table and extensions properly. A good one is expensive but probably a good long-term investment. Ed

Ed

[Paul Ryan]

Fellas,


I got my fence exactly how I like it now. It clamps done firmly but slides very smooth with very little slop. I spend about 45 min messing around with it. Now when I stop at a measurment I just push the lock lever and it doesn't move.

I think the problem was how SS says to put the main tube on. They tell you to start at the left end and set the tube so the fence is about 1/16 from the front rail, and then move to the far right end. Do the same at the right end, then tighten all of the bolts in between. The problem with that is if the tube isn't 100% straight it will be off in the middle. After i had set it the way there manuel said, I meaured the distance of the tube from the front rail. The meaurments varied up to 1/32. That caused the fence to have more slop in some areas and less in others. When I tried to take up the slop the fence bound up in other places.

I started by making sure the parallel tabs on the fence were at equal lenghts. Then I set the left end of the tube, and then moved the fence to the next bolt, set that one, on to the next bolt, all the way to the right end. That way the tube is aligned the same distance all the way along. Then I set the parallel of the fence. I have the fence less than .0005 out of parallel. I can't measure any lower than that, my feeler guages don't go any smaller. Any to be honest that is alot closer than I care to worry about.
So now I am happy with it. I think their procedure needs to be adjusted. One of the problems it I didn't get a manuel with my fence.

Did any one get a manuel with their fence?

[Rob Price]

Other than the installation manual, no other instructions for the fence.

I thought about doing what you talked about, that will ensure the tube is straight. There's one sticky spot on my fence. What did you use to index? I used my putty knife before.

As far as the table goes, using my cheapo Sears straight edge, I only have one spot where I can slip a single sheet of paper in (.0030 according to my calipers). Good enough for me. My wood certainly isn't that flat. I started at the front and worked my way back. Clamping it is a good idea, but I didn't have to, I just used a flat piece of wood and light taps with a hammer.

Next I'll try to tune up the fence like you did Paul. Thanks for the tip.

Just for fun I put the calipers on the rails- 4.2mm, which probably accounts for the paint finish. The "T" part of the fence was 6.2mm. The main tube is probably 2mm, I can't get the calipers on it without taking it apart. I don't think it really matters though.

I need to get some finish on my boxes before I do any more work on the saw.

[Rob Price]

Paul,
That is very encouraging. You have me at a great disadvantage as you have your saw and I am waiting for mine. What started me on this is the comparison info Dylan sent me:

Industrial Series Fence
o 3mm gauge main tube

· Professional Series Fence
o 3mm gauge main tube


So the main tube is the same, I would think that's the important part, that's what the fence rides on and locks down on, right?

[Paul Ryan]

Rob,

To index my tube away from the front rail. I used a tool registration card folded in half. I used the loose ends not the folded end. When I bolted the tube down the card pulled out tight, and then would not slip back in. It is also important that the adjustment pads are at even measurments. If they are not the fence with not be adjusted the same along the entire length. When you are done indexing the tube, you will have to go back and adjust the fence for parallel. It is alot of messing around but for me it was worth it to get rid of the slop and make the fence lock down real tight.

[Barry Vabeach]

Frank, who did you send your email to? I thought there was supposed to be a questionnaire with the saw but did not find one.

[Frank Trinkle]

Sent to dylan@sawstop, and info@sawstop, and service@sawstop. It got to the right corners of the company for the various specific comments in my full email.

[Rob Price]

I think we get the questions at the end of the month.

[Barry Vabeach]

Paul, I used a variation of your method - I put the fence all the way to the left so that the left pad was above the left most bolt, put 1 business card between the front of the saw and the pad ( made sure a second card wouldn't fit) then snugged that bolt, then moved the fence to the right so that the left pad was above the next bolt and moved the other end of the tube in or out to get the same distance ( 1 card fit easily, but a second wouldn't fit) , then snugged that bolt and continued in the same fashion all along the rail. Since I was only using the left most tab, I didn't get all that concerned about whether the pads were at even distance. Your version of moving along the fence is much better than the instructions - if you tighten the two ends it is pretty hard to get the gap just right all along the middle. Barry

[Paul Ryan]

Barry,

I am glade to hear that someone else had the same trouble as I did. The night I put the saw together, I set it 3 times trying to get it as close as i could with out it binding up. I could not do it and it drove me nuts. The way my front tube was set in order to get the majority of the slop out the fence would bind up. The only reason i said set both pads the same distance, was because at the left end you will use the left pad to index it, and at the right end you will use the right pad to index it. If they arn't the same distance it will be off because the difference of the pads. But it looks like we have good procedure now. Glad I could help. I hope you like the saw as much as I like mine.

[Frank Trinkle]

While I'm not putting on the SS fence system (going with Incra due on Tuesday), make sure you guys pass on your "fix" to SawStop. That way they can evaluate and change their procedures for the production model.

[Barry Vabeach]

Paul, I agree with Frank, but it was your idea, so you can tell them ( If you don't want to do it, I don't mind, though I think you should get the credit - if any) I haven't started mine yet - I have about 3 hours in setting it up so far, though some of that was dumb moves by me. The main snag is that I assumed it wouldn't come with a cord and bought a cord and wired on a plug begore the saw arrived. Thinking cautiously, I bought 10/3 wire , no way will those leads fit on the switch, so I am thinking of picking up some 12 gauge. It was nice of them to include a plug and a cord, though 6 feet is awfully short. Barry

[Paul Ryan]

I havent talked to them about the fence adjustments yet. I talked to them about a couple of other things today, nothing big. I think they would have been using this procedure for a while, because the fence is the same as the contractor saw. I will let them know that I dont think that their published procedure is correct. It just seems that my way is the way it should be done. Not because I am arogent or anything like that. But I have built my share of decks over the years. Long ago working with an older guy he said, " when you screw down a deck board, screw one end down and work your way to the other end, and adjust as you go." That is how I have put up window casing, door moldings and everything else since then. It works, it is easier to adjust as you move to the end instead of adjusting in the middle.

Barry, what kind of saw are you upgrading from. You don't have to go to 12/3 if you dont want to. The saws maximum amp draw is 13 amps. 14 guage is rated for 15 amps and that is what saw stop has on the saw. It is good for up to 25 ft. I did just as Rob did, I didn't buy the little horse shoe crimp connector things. The wire fits right in a clamp and you tighten the screw down on the wire. The crimp connector things might make it a little easier, but they are not necessary.

By the way, no cord is better than a 6 footer. 6 feet doesn't get you very far at all.

[Rob Price]

6 ft barely gets past the 52" table! I guess if you had a plug in the floor it would work. Now what to do with the extra wire laying around...

So I messed with the miter gage a bit. I read in Wood magazine you could bang on the bar with nail set/punch to create little raised ridges along the bar to remove any slop. I was a little skeptical about it, but figured, why not?

It actually worked. The little ridges are just enough to tighten up the bar in the slot, I just wonder if, over time, they will scar the iron in on the table. I'm still going to use my aftermarket Rockler miter gage, but keep this around as a backup. May work well in my router table...

[Andy Sowers]

Anyone else have to adjust the miter slot to blade parallelism? Mine was initially out by just over 0.01. After adjusting the table, I got it down to about 0.001. The table bolts were pretty loose initially, so that probably explains why it was out so much to begin with.

Everything went according to the manual instructions, except it was a pain to tighten the left rear table bolt because it was blocked by the trunion assembly. Tilting the blade away provided enough clearance to access the bolt, but this also required sliding the dial indicator out of the way. That made it tougher to check the alignment as you were tightening up the table bolts.

Tomorrow, I'll take a shot at Paul's method of aligning the main tube, then squaring up the fence to the blade.

Then its time to put this puppy to WORK! :D

[Rob Price]

just set up my dial, off by 0.012" and I think explains some of the heel I was getting at the outfeed of my cuts- now where did I put that manual...?

[Frank Trinkle]

On the cord issue...this is why:

From SS response to my feedback....


Regarding the cord and plug, we share your opinion that this is a component that is best provided by the customer. Unfortunately, US and Canadian standards (UL, CSA) require that we provide a rated cord and plug with a length between 2 and 3 meters. This standard is likely written with benchtop equipment in mind, but we nevertheless must comply to receive certification. We expect that, like you, most customers will replace the cord and plug to meet their needs when they install the saw.

So it's pretty clear that it's no more than a decoration on the saw when delivered!

[Vic Damone]

Is the arbor on the Professional long enough to use the Dial-A-Dado system?

[Andy Sowers]

The length of the arbor is 1.33" (as best I can measure w/ my calipers). I asked SS what the widest dado that can be used and they indicated 13/16" which seems pretty standard.

But aside from the physical dimensions... are you sure the Freud Dial-a-Width Dado set will work with any Sawstop saw? I thought I read a thread that the hub Frued uses on this prevents the blade brake circuitry from working. Isnt the hub plastic? If so, I dont think this type of dado will ever work on a Sawstop saw...

[Frank Trinkle]

Sure it will.. Just use it in BYPASS mode.

[Rob Price]

A blade still has to be installed properly and a brake installed properly for bypass mode to work.

[Frank Trinkle]

That's true, but a plastic hub is not going to affect placement of the brake and the Freud is a 5/8" arbor, and an 8" set, so there should be no problem using it in bypass mode.

[Rob Price]

I think the question is, will the plastic hub keep the arbor from sensing if the blade is installed? Is there exposed metal down the middle of the set? I think there just needs to be enough contact so the saw "knows" there is a blade installed.

[Paul Ryan]

The easiest way to answer this question is to email sawstop on mon morning. I use an all steel dado so personally I don't care. But I thin sawstop would know if the freud dial-a-dado would work or not. I have never seen one so i will not fathom a guess.

I spent about 8 hours using the saw today. I am very happy with it. The fence getts my approval now. The rails and the main tube I think are plenty heavy duty. It is the fence its self that could have a little more heft to it. But unless it is abused it will last a lifetime.

I filled my delta dust collector 2 times today. Lots and lots of planning along with all the cutting on the table saw.

I talked to Sawstop on friday and was told that about 4 different parts will be sent out to field testors in july. One that suprised me was a new switch box. I wonder if that is because this switch is awefull hard to push in to shut off? I noticed that that it seemed hard, the first night using the saw, but I never thought much about it. Today I had a very hard time shutting the saw off with my leg. My SC saw had a magnetic switch and was kind of like a hair trigger. You just had to nudge the switch and the saw was off.

I hope everyone is enjoying their saw as much as I am.

[Frank Trinkle]

What are the OTHER three? I'm assuming two are a new Owner's Manual and the top Dust Collection system.

Surprised to hear about a new switch box. I haven't had a problem with mine... but I also haven't used it except for initial testing.

Mine will be fully complete by Wednesday. My Incra fence system, rails, and router table are coming on Tuesday.

[Paul Ryan]

In july they will be sending out the over head guard. Which I guess is just the cat's behind. Suposidly it collects everything, But will require the smaller of the shop vac fittings. The rest are a larger dust port. The dust port on our saws is too small, only 3 3/4, my quick connector on my hose doesn't work, I had to build up the connector on the saw to make my hose work. A switch box, and gears. Don't ask me what the gears are for. My saw lifts the blade and motor so smoothly, and tilts effortlessly. I think it changes angles and elevation as easy as the ICS. And anything else that they determine by then.

I agree with you Frank I think they are going to sell a ton of these saws.

[Andy Sowers]

Yeah... today I noticed the same thing about the rear dust port... Glad to see that they are addressing that! I had to tighten down the clamp so much, I thought it might actually cut through the hose.

One thing I noticed last night was that I heard a click when tilting the saw. Happened several times when I was aligning the blade to the miter slot. It seemed to occur when the blade was at about 10degrees away from 90deg. I wasnt able to determine the origin of the noise, and by the time I started looking for it, it went away... go figure.

My switch isn't necessarily hard to turn on/off, but it does require a bit more force to turn off than I would have guessed. I'm still trying to re-learn where the switches, and cranks are. My hands still reach down where they were on my old saw. One thing that I would like to see is the switch box made of metal instead of plastic...

I wish they'd sent a manual with the fence. But having said that, I downloaded the fence for the ICS. Looks almost identical to ours...

Used the saw for about an hour this afternoon... it sliced through 3/4" ply like it was a hot knife through butter! Dust collection was very good, a little dust on the table which I would imagine would be easily collected by the new overarm dust collection. A bit of dust in the bottom of the cabinet, but not a whole lot...

[Rob Price]

man, I really don't want to have to dissasemble this thing and replace gears and then try to re-align everything, did they give any indication what's up with the gears? I'm mechanically inclined, but I'm no auto mechanic either.

The switch does take a good nudge, but it's right where my legs are, I wouldn't want to accidentally shut it off either.

I'd be surprised if they're using a totally new switch compared to the first two saw...

[Dan T Jones]

For those fortunate enough to have their Sawstops what is your opinion of the miter guage. Are you planning to upgrade? Incra/Kreg/etc?

[Rob Price]

Okay so I got out the dial indicator and set out to adjust the saw.

Arbor was maybe out 0.0005, if that, the needle barely flinched.

The Sawstop blade- not so flat, runout of at least 0.007, which made tuning up the saw a little tough, but they say not to use a coated blade, and both my freud blades have the permacoat on them, which I guess could be applied unevenly across the blade.

Got it set up parallel, and then went to adjust the tilt axis. Here's where I encountered a little problem that is probably worth mentioning. If you have the blade raised all the way up, when you tilt it, the riving knife mechanism gets pinned under the insert supports. the first time I checked it, it was out 0.1! I couln't believe it, but then I saw the riving knife housing bound up, so I lowered the blade and was back to 0.010 out. Now, the manual says you have to multiply this by 2.4, and then adjust that offset nut on the vertical support until the blade (at 0 degrees) is now out of parallel equal to -0.024, and then fix it back up again. I haven't done this yet- have any of you tried?

[Andy Sowers]

I didn't bother with the tilt axis alignment. 99% of my cuts are at 90deg so I made sure that was dialed in. I'll revisit when I need to make my first beveled cuts (by that time I figure it might need readjusting anyway).

My SS blade wasn't too bad for runout... my Freud's might have been better, but as you said they have that red coating on them. Plus the anti-vibration grooves they cut in the blade were causing my dial indicator to go nuts, and there were too many of them to avoid hitting at least one.

[Rob Price]

That's another problem with them- those vibration slots.

I finally got it dead on. I can run wood through on either side of the blade with the rip fence and there's no heel. I really don't want to monkey that up. I bet 0.010 won't affect my bevels that much, maybe it will. It's more accurate than my last saw either way.

I like the little adjustment bolts on the side, I could just dial in where I needed it.

[Andy Sowers]

yeah... I was totally digging those two adjustment bolts (didnt have those on my old saw which was a table mounted trunion vs cabinet mounted one). It was super easy to get everything lined up to less than 0.0005 (which was the limit of my dial indicator). I did have a bit of a problem with things moving as much as 0.003 when I tightened the four table bolts up, but after a few iterations, its good to go!

[Frank Trinkle]

Can't speak to the miter gauge, as I am replacing with an Incra Miter5000 system.

To all: My FULL Incra package came in today, a day early. Gonna be busy installing the rails, fence, router table, and LS Super System tonight and tomorrow morning.

Pictures by tomorrow afternoon!

Andy... I had the exact same experience with tightening the bolts. Played with them one by one, and eventually found a formula that kept the table stable.

What a saw!!

[Andy Sowers]

My opinion the Sawstop miter gauge is only average. Nothing to write home about. The fit and finish of the rest of the saw is in a different league. At some point once more funds are available in the bank account, I'll probably upgrade to an Incra 1000SE.

In the past, I've used a couple of dedicated crosscut sleds for much of the work that might use a miter gauge. They aren't as adjustable of course, but there are workarounds (at least for me). Which reminds me that I need to make a new sled to fit the PCS!

[Barry Vabeach]

Andy, +1 on making a crosscut sled. The miter gauge is average at best. For a sled, right now I am leaning towards an open back end so I can make use of the standard guard, though don't know how that will affect the accuracy. I made up a 4" x 4" torsion box to be the backbone of the sled, and try to get it sorted out this weekend.

Rob, I got the alignment at 90 degrees to within specs very quick - just a little tinkering back and forth with the allen screws. I checked it on the tilt and it was right within the spec, though I so rarely use the tilt, I doubt I would have messed with it unless it was off a bunch. I had the hardest time setting the splitter in the same plane as the blade - though I didn't follow the instructions in the manual, and I am using a WWII thin kerf that has been sharpened a couple of times ( though the kerf is still more than 2 mm) Barry

[Paul Ryan]

Guys,

The 1st thing I did was make a cross cut sled. I can't be with out those things. I made mine 44x27 really big but that way it covers all of the cast iron. I can say the miter guage is a POS. I really dont use them that often. When I cut miters I use my miter saw 99% of the time. This past weekend though, I had to cut tendons on some 5/4 that is 6"x40" so a tendoning jig wont have helped so I used my miter guage, with a fence on it and a stop block. Well lets just say that the checks arn't completely square, so I will have plenty of adjusting to do. I just got done cutting about 40 mortises tonight so tommarow will be cleaning out the mortises and fitting the tendons.

I hate to spend $100 on and incra that I will use once per year. If I wouldn't have been to lazy I should have use my cross cut sled. I made it so I could cut dados, bevels, etc. with ZCI. But I was too lazy to take out the insert and drill a new one to fit.

I really think they droped the ball on the miter guage more than any thing. I know that most people buy different ones, but it doesn't cost any more to include a miter guage with set screws. My SC had one as far as I know any saw that you spend 3K on will have one. I am not sure but I bet the stock powermatic and delta miter guages are better than this one. And those saws don't cost 3K. I guess that is my beef. It is a really nice saw but the miter guage needs to be addressed, I think.

Frank I cant wait to see your pics.

[Brent Bell]

Did they say how the new overhead dust collector will work? How will it be supported? And that is interesting about the undersized dustport. How did they make that mistake? It seems that the retrofit might just be an adapter, otherwise it would require cutting the cabinet. Or am I missing something?

I've got my saw assembled and it looks great. I'll fire it up this weekend after put in a new shop sub panel with 220V lines. I had only two small problems in the assembly. One was with the same bolt holes on the mobil base that others have described. The other was with leveling the extension wings. The right wing was especially uneven with the main table. I contacted Sawstop and was given several tips. One was to shim between the main table and the extension with aluminum foil. It did the trick. Now all of the parts of the saw top are very uniform - probably as good as I could possibly measure with my straight edge.

Last Thursday was a big day for me. Not only was my Sawstop PCS delivered but I also drove to Syracuse, NY to pick up a V-3000 dust collector from Oneida. These are the first big purchases for me in the last several years. And I am looking forward to using them for years to come. Now if I can only get that subpanel put in...

[Paul Ryan]

It is just the adapter that they will be replacing. The one you screwed on inside the cabinet. It is ony 1/4" undersized so 1/8 top and bottom. But the new adapter will fit with out any cutting.

Rob,

I rarely cut bevels, I would try cutting with it 1st if it gives a bad cut then maybe you will have to adjust. If it cuts nice, leave it alone.

[Rob Price]

so would you guys mess with 0.010 out on the tilt axis? I've re-read the manual, and once I have my brain around it, the process doesn't look that daunting.

I can't remember which thread it was- I posted this somewhere. I took a nail set/punch to the bar of the miter gage. If you hit it hard enough with a hammer, it raises up little welts along the bar. I put 4 on there and the slop is gone. It's not pretty but it works. Still dissapointing for a $3K saw.

I have a Rockler gage/fence system I bought for my last saw. It's one of the less expensive aftermaket deals, but it's dead on and works for me. I didn't use my miter gage much, until I got a good one, I use it all the time now.

A sled is on the short list though, for bigger pieces. I'll just use the riving knife with a sled.

[Dan T Jones]

I went ahead and ordered the Incra 1000($95) and a Forrest WWII(78) from Amazon. The WWII in down to $76 this morning.

This is a great thread for those of us still waiting. Thanks to all of you for posting your experience.

[Rob Price]

That pushed me over the edge. I was looking at spending $30 to sharpen my old freud thin kerf blade that I bought for $40. Getting a WWII for $76, no tax, no shipping seems a better use of cash. I flipped open my old Wood magazine from last April where they did a test of saw blades- at this price, the WWII wins out over the Frued Fusion premier blade.

[Andy Sowers]

My guess is that the dust port is sized for a standard metric size vs standard 4" port. Everything on this saw is metric...

should be an easy fix though.

[Chris Padilla]

Andy,

I'll bring over my gauges and Mast-R-Plate and one of my Forrest WWII blade and we can check your parallelism again. PM me...let's hash out the times...I'm good any time...last weekend was taxes *groan*

[Rob Price]

okay, so when my new forrest blade gets here (hopefully more flat that the stock blade) I'm going to set it up again, and remove the runout from the tilt axis as well. I need to find a metal plate to make the jig in the manual.

I'll let you guys know how it goes. This looks a whole lot easier than shimming a table top.

What about just screwing the bar directly into a block of wood and removing the magnetic base?

[Paul Ryan]

What about just screwing the bar directly into a block of wood and removing the magnetic base?

Rob,

I assume you are talking about the dial indicator. I think that would work fine. That is what i would do.

[steve brownell]

The other was with leveling the extension wings. The right wing was especially uneven with the main table. I contacted Sawstop and was given several tips. One was to shim between the main table and the extension with aluminum foil. It did the trick. Now all of the parts of the saw top are very uniform - probably as good as I could possibly measure with my straight edge.


Same issue on my end - the right table wing was out of whack, still not right. question: how did you end aligning it with aluminum foil Brent?

[Rob Price]

I got my forrest blade which is dead flat. I went through the alignment process, and I had the blade at 90 dead on, I mean on. I had to check the needle to be sure it was working. 45 degrees is -0.002 which is close enough for me. It was actually pretty easy to do. Took about 30 min total to do the table, tilt axis, and table again.

Now, I just need to figure out how to tighten the bolts. I tightened the three exposed bolts while the blade was at 90, then tilted up to 45 and tightened the last bolt- now I'm out 0.002. Either I leave it good 'nuff or I try again.

In what order did you guys tighten the bolts? Did you just tighten all four at 45 degrees? any other tips on the alignment?

[Paul Ryan]

I got my forrest blade which is dead flat. I went through the alignment process, and I had the blade at 90 dead on, I mean on. I had to check the needle to be sure it was working. 45 degrees is -0.002 which is close enough for me. It was actually pretty easy to do. Took about 30 min total to do the table, tilt axis, and table again.

Now, I just need to figure out how to tighten the bolts. I tightened the three exposed bolts while the blade was at 90, then tilted up to 45 and tightened the last bolt- now I'm out 0.002. Either I leave it good 'nuff or I try again.

In what order did you guys tighten the bolts? Did you just tighten all four at 45 degrees? any other tips on the alignment?

When I adjusted my table, the 1st time I tightend the fronts tight and then the rear. It turns out when I was done the table was off again. So the 2nd time once it was adjusted I snugged the front just one 1/4 turn or so with the wrench when I could feel the bolt starting to tighten. Then I tighten the right rear bolt(fully), the one you could get too with out having to move the blade. Then I tightened the others you had to move the blade to get at, then tighten the fronts fully. I it worked for me stayed put after going through that. I haven't even checked my saw to see if it is on or off when at 45 degrees. I really dont care right now. If it cuts bad when I bevel it then I will worry about it. My saw got a work out last weekend but has been pretty idle the past 3 days. This week I will start up again. I think it is time for a folding outfeed table. I have never had one, but this saw won't be going any where for a long time so it is time for one. My 1st bed is done it has been sitting in the clamps all day. Once the out feed table is done I think I will start on the other bed. Good luck to all.

[Andy Sowers]

I pretty much did the same thing as Paul. I slowly tightened the three bolts you can access without moving the trunion out of the way. With the table loose, I could easily dial it in less than 0.0005". However, at one point or another when tightening up the table bolts the alignment would invariably move to over 0.003."

After several attempts, I was able to get it dialed in to about 0.0015" (if I recall correctly). What I did was watch how much the alignment moved when tightening the table bolts, and then I used that value to overcompensate the alignment in the beginning. It took a few iterations to find the average amount it moved (in my case about 0.003"). You also have to be careful to try to tighten everything up the same way each time. Using this offset, when I tightened everything up it came in within my acceptable tolerances...

I don't know about you guys, but I would have preferred it if those two back bolts weren't inside the cabinet. Oh well, its hopefully something that won't need frequent fiddling with.

I didn't mess with the tilt axis alignment... most of my cuts are all at 90deg. If I need to do a bevel cut, I'll worry about it then.

[Rob Price]

If I loosen the back left bolt about 1/2 turn, it comes back into alignment. How tight does it need to be?

[Rick Gifford]

I have a router in my extension table and built an enclosure for it.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=90165


Still working on building mine up. Anybody know if you can put a router plate in the extension table? or is this not a good idea?

thanks,
andrew

[Tom Willoughby]

I have been using the new PCS for the last few weeks. I think it is a great saw when compared to my previous Ridgid 3612 contractor saw.

As others have mentioned, I also had an unlevel right extension wing. A little masking tape above the bolt holes helped level things out but it still isn't perfect. It is much closer than the wood I'm cutting so no worries.

My blade alignment is 0.001 with a WWII blade so I'm not fussing with it. The original SawStop blade measured 0.002 so it goes to show you the accuracy of a Forrest blade.

I have an Incra fence so I can't comment on the SS fence. I also have a router insert in the right side extension table that is installed.

MDF and some pine lumber is what has been run through it so far but no complaints. I will be building a folding outfeed extension for the saw so it'll be some plywood next.

I am very pleased with the SawStop PCS.

Cheers,
Tom

[Rob Price]

Okay, so after a few frustrating attempts I finally got the saw dialed in. Every time I tightened the back left bolt the table would move. Sometimes positive, sometimes negative. I can bolt the other three without problem.

So what I did was align the blade, which was easy to do with the set screws, tilt up to 90 degrees, and tighten the back left bolt all the way down and left the other 3 loose. Then, when I bring the saw back to zero, there is still enough play to use the set screws to compensate for the 0.004 that it moved. Dial it back in and tighten the other three and I'm left with -0.0015 from the right miter slot. Good enough for me. My fence is dead on parallel, so that gives me just a hair of separation at the back. But now I don't get that annoying spray of sawdust off the back of the blade as the workpiece moves through. BTW my tilt axis is at 0.002 after the alignment procedure- that was easier than aligning the table- just more steps. Now that I have that done, I cut my zero clearance insert with my new blade. Maybe this will help someone else, maybe it just bores the rest of you.

I already completed a project two weeks ago with the saw in it's "factory" condition, but I can tell a dramatic improvment in ripping maple- no more burn marks- which were probably from a dull blade as much as the saw being out of parallel.

Now I finally get to enjoy this bugger. This weekend- my router station, ala Norm but adjusted for a taller user. I've got some birch ply and melamine MDF to throw at it. We'll see how the new Forrest blade handles the melamine. Then I need to build a base for it, this thing is short!

[Paul Ryan]

I don't know if any one else has had trouble leveling the ZCI inserts. Mine would level fine but the right front corner would pop up when the lock ring was pushed down. I messed around with it after talking to SS and got is pretty decent but it always kind of bugged me. Anyway I ordered a different insert on monday because I wanted a true ZCI where you can only cut at 90 degrees. The new insert stays completly level now when locked down and I didn't have to make any modifications. They must have fixed them or changed the specs on the inserts.

After reading Robs post in the other PCS thread. I checked out SS web site there is a lot new info about all of the saws there. Including the PCS saw.

[Rob Price]

I posted about the new saw on the other thread and then that thread disappeared... the warranty listed over at Sawstop is 2 years, not 1.

So when is the new guard coming???

[Paul Ryan]

I asked Dylan the other day and was told it might be August or latter now. Pushed back again.