Target Coatings USL's replacement

[Russ Massery]

Has anyone tried the replacement for Target Coatings USL? I was surprised to see the they replaced with the Emtech 6000 production lacquer. Is the same product?

[Tim Malyszko]

Has anyone tried the replacement for Target Coatings USL? I was surprised to see the they replaced with the Emtech 6000 production lacquer. Is the same product?

Well that sucks. I was running low on it and was getting ready to place another order. I'm curious also.

[Jay Brewer]

The replacement is the emtec 6000 production lacquer. It is supposed to have a few better characteristics over the USL and is the same price. I have sprayed 10 gallons of the 6000 and it looks and sprays just like the USL. Hope this helps.

[Jim Becker]

I'm not worried in the least. USL was a better product than PSL. The EM6000 is undoubtedly a better product than the USL. Jeff Weiss runs a good show!

[Jim McFarland]

Russ, if you really want USL, did you try Homestead Finishing? Jeff still had some USL inventory a couple of weeks ago (in the satin sheen, anyway).

That said, I used the last of my gloss USL and tried the EM6000 on a small project. If anything, the EM6000 laid down a bit better so I won't hesitate buying it instead of USL.

[Matt Meiser]

What about compatibility between the two? Can you spray a coat of USL then switch to EM6000 on the next? I hate to discard what I have if its not enough to finish a project.

[Jim McFarland]

What about compatibility between the two? Can you spray a coat of USL then switch to EM6000 on the next? <snip>

Similar question asked on The Finishing Zone forum and this is an excerpt from Jeff W's answer (Mods, hope it's ok to quote from another forum with attribution -- if not, I apologize and change all this to "Yes, products are compatible"):


"1. EPL will bond and interface 100% with USL. They share identical backbones with a few new additives to make EPL slicker/smoother/faster.
The 100% Burn-In functionality of USL has been passed along to the EPL formula. "

[Tim Malyszko]

This is all great news. I haven't been spraying all that long, but really like the USL. I'm glad to hear the replacement works well.

[Russ Massery]

Same here it's my "go to" finish. I found it easy to use even for novice sprayer.;)

[Marc Casebolt]

I sold my shop about a year ago so no longer do any spraying. When I did it was mostly USL and other Target products. Although I could not get a good result with their wb poly to save my life. When all was said and done I still had a few gallons of product left over, and still have it today. I think there are a few gals of their wb shellac and perhaps some USL, some other stuff too, I'll have to look. Anyhow, it's free to a good home if you can pick it up in Simi Valley CA. It's been stored in a cool dry place, and is probably still good. If anyone is interested I'll make a list of what I have.

Marc

[mark page]

Good to know that it's reverse compatible, as I'm in the same boat as everyone else.

[Sean Rainaldi]

Hi,

Can this replacement to the USL be hand applied with a brush or cloth? Also does any kind of a base coat and/or top coat need to be used with this product? Or can I just put 3 or 4 coats down and be done with it? Is this a water base clear coat?

I would like to use it on hard maple kitchen cabinets if this is the correct product.

[Jim Becker]

Sean, all Target Coatings products are water borne finishes. They are designed to be sprayed, but you may be able to brush them. Wiping is generally not going to work well with a water borne product. The products can be applied directly to the wood (will raise grain and nibs will need to be knocked down) or over other treatments, such as stains and dyes if a sealer is used. Most of us use dewaxed shellac, such as Zinsser SealCoat for a sealer.

[Sean Rainaldi]

Thanks Jim,

So I assume from reading various posts here that the finishing products from target are better quality compared to what stores like woodcraft and rockler, leigh valley etc. carry - is this accurate?

The Target brands are considered more like artist quality finishes?

I was wondering about Deft water based clear coat, or Bulls Eye shellac, General Finishes, - I think they carry that at woodcraft, although I don't see anything larger that one quart quantities on their web site.

is there a reason folks here seem to favor the Target as opposed to these other products? Better characteristics?

[Prashun Patel]

Sean, I don't think you can say one is necessarily better than the other.

People around here like Target because it's pretty easy to spray. There's no mixing, no guessing, and it goes on pretty easy even with cheaper HVLP equipment (that I know from experience). It's also super easy to clean up and 'safer' to spray than solvent-based lacquers - which are toxic and flammable. That was the big win for me; I can spray USL in my basement with 'moderate' ventilation.

The others you mentioned are fine too. The lacquers you find in most BORGish stores are brushing lacquers, so they're a little thicker than a spray lacquer. So, you have to decide whether you want to thin it before spraying it. Some say you don't have to thin them at all. You need to spray these outside or with a proper spray booth (unless using Deft's waterbased finish)

Zinsser Bullseye is a fine shellac but it's waxed - so it's not appropriate under waterbased finishes or polyurethane (debatable in practice). It's also only available in a couple colors.

General Finishes are very well regarded.

With finishes it's best to buy what you need. All brands will deteriorate and cure with varying speeds once opened, so each project is best started with fresh product (of course there's exceptions to that).

[Sean Rainaldi]

Thanks Shawn,

Incindentially, I just spoke with Target and the gentleman over there recommended, since I am brush applying, to use the Oxford, (soon to become Emtec) 9000 Superclear, and to apply it with a DaVinci Nova short bristled synthetic brush purchased at any art supply store, and to sand with 400 grit paper between coats, and that it should take 3 to 4 coats, no base or top coat needed.


I guess I'll use this brand because it appears from what I have read in this forum that it is the least likely product to yellow over time.

[Jim Becker]

Sean, just as an aside, the "sanding" that is being recommended isn't intensive sanding...it's primarily to get dust nibs and grain raise fibers off the workpiece. So don't get all aggressive with it, even though it's fine 400 grit abrasive.

[Mark Roderick]

Hard question to answer. For myself, as a novice at spray finishing, I've been able to achieve excellent results with the Target finishes and therefore feel comfortable staying within their product line. Plus, I've never heard anybody say anything bad about them, from novice to expert.

[Sean Rainaldi]

Thanks Jim will do. Thanks Mark.

BTW, for folks who intend to brush on Oxford 9000 (soon to become Emtec 9000) the brush that Jeff over at Target recommends is a Da Vinci brush, from their Top-Acryl line. The brush I bought I bought from Dick Blick art supplies on line, was item number 05376-1024, from Da Vinci series 7182 Bright, Size 24 26 mm 26 mm List $55.10 $25.49 sale. It's an art brush, not your regular paint brush you buy at the paint store or big box.

Jeff believes that this is the best brush for the job, for the best quality finish - that is, if you are hand applying not spraying.

If you are going to spray use Emtec 6000. 9000 is for the brush.