Bog down 5HP Shaper?

[Matthew Henderson]

I have a Delta 43-459 shaper, 3 phase model, with a Delta 36-840 1HP feeder, also 3 phase, on top. I got this setup off craigslist about 8 months ago. The previous owner had stored them outside under an open car port type roof so there was some serious surface rust on the top of the shaper, and feeder mounting poles. I took both apart and cleaned, removed rust, lubricated, etc resulting in a fairly complete rebuild the day after getting them home. I have used them a number of times to build raised panel cabinet doors and edge joint more feet of hard maple than I can count. Yesterday I started 4 more raised panel doors out of hard maple. I got all the rough lumber milled, rough cut, and glued up the panels yesterday. Today I finished cuting all the pieces and made the rail and stile cuts with the shaper without any issues. I made single pass cuts with the feeder on the fast setting of the lowest gearing. Everything worked great just as it had since I got the machines. Then I put the raised panel cutter in and setup the fences. Ran a test piece of MDF through it and could hear something different. The MDF bogged down the shaper a little bit. I had the out feed fence a tad too strong and the corner of the test piece caught it. A quick smack on the opposite corner of the MDF freed it up and it finished the cut. I thought it was strange I heard the shaper bog down. Slowing down 5HP on a 5inch cutter is interesting. I shrugged it off as bad setup, fixed the setup, and moved on to my real panel. Started the maple into the feeder across the grain and 3 inches into the cut the shaper bogged down and the cutter stalled in the wood. I hit the power stop as soon as I could but smelled burning rubber shortly after. I examined the work piece and it was fine. The edge had not even gotten to he out feed fence yet so I know it didn't bind up like the first test piece had. Now I'm worried. I checked the belt and though it might be a little loose, so I moved it to the slower pulley and re-tensioned it. I have never used the slower pulley before. Tried cutting again, 3 more inches and the same thing. I really wanted to get the doors finished so I lowered the cutter, resulting in a cut about 1/2 as deep as the original and then was able to finish the panels. I could tell the shaper was really struggling to keep up. Any ideas on what to check? Am I going to need a new motor soon?

[Chris Rosenberger]

I have the same shaper. I have had the belt slip before. The belt has to be very tight.
Is your cutter getting dull?

[Chip Lindley]

DULL CUTTER? After a *few* raised panel jobs, the cutter loses its razor edge. Try cleaning it first as you would a carbide saw blade and see if it makes a difference. If no huge improvement, its time to have that RPC sharpened!

If you use the same rail/stile cutter set with that RPC, probably time to have the set sharpened also!

[Earl Kelly]

Are you running this on 3phase power? Or are you using a static or rotary converter? If I remember correctly a static converter can cut your output power significantly. Not sure if a rotary does the same.

Also, making a full cut in one pass is a lot to ask for any shaper. I always break my cuts up into two passes making the final a cleanup cut. Unless your doing hundreds of doors it won't cost you that much extra time.

Earl

[Frank Drew]

Could it be a problem with your power feeder?

[Ron Bontz]

I have bogged my 3hp down as well. Especially on hardwoods. Hard maple is definitely a hard one. I now take it in 2 cuts with a quick very light 3rd sometimes. I don't have a profile sander so I would rather save time on sanding than cutting. The burning belt tells me it's most likely not the motor. Best of luck.:)

[Matthew Henderson]

I have the same shaper. I have had the belt slip before. The belt has to be very tight.
Is your cutter getting dull?

I've been suspect of the belt from day one. It was the "cleanest" thing on the shaper when I got it, which tells me it was replaced probably right before I looked at it. I wonder if it is the correct one. There is very little room for adjustment (tensioning) when the belt is on the pulleys. Is this normal? I can move the motor maybe 1/8 inch.

The cutter can still shave a bit off my thumbnail, no it is not as sharp as new but I wouldn't call it dull yet.

[Matthew Henderson]

I'm running on a 10HP rotary converter. The converter and the power feeder didn't skip a beat when this occurred.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Is this normal? I can move the motor maybe 1/8 inch."

It sounds like you don't have enough belt tension (wrong belt?) If the belt slipped and the cutter stopped but the motor kept spinning, it's likely that the belt was way overheated. After that, it's "glazed" and will slip much more easily.

[Neal Clayton]

look at the outside of the belt for the size number, and check the parts number from delta.

if it's supposed to be an X belt and was replaced with a standard belt, that's cutting your horsepower by a ton.

[Peter Quinn]

As to bogging, I have raised bigger panels on a 5HP shaper for hours at a clip (40-50 large double sided panels, one pass each side per edge) with no issue. I have also spun some pretty big molding knives in an index head without issue. You have plenty of theoretical power for cabinet panels. A cutter has to get pretty darn dull before it stalls a machine and usually you get some tearing and burning before that happens. A few kitchen jobs does not kill a carbide cutter unless the wood was hickory or something harder, maybe not even then. I'd check the belt first. I bought a used 3HP delta (that raises panels in one pass just fine by the way) and there are several inches of adjustment for belt tensioning. A new VX belt made my machine run smoother than the old V belt that came standard.

As a side note I don't think you should be spinning a panel raiser at 10,000RPM which is the faster speed on most 2 speed shapers, delta or otherwise. I seem to recall the max recommended speed on my panel raisers being 8000RPM? Might want to check that. If a new belt doesn't solve the problem the motor would be the next place to look. Storing motors outside can be detrimental to their longevity. By all means replace the belt with the OEM spec size, but don't feel compelled to get robbed by delta, just order a goodyear or gates from McMaster Carr or such.

[Matthew Henderson]

Looks like my belt is hosed. There were originally 6 "ribs" on the inside of it and 3 are gone. Now I just have to figure out if the one I have is the "right one" or just one that was shoved in there. I looked on Delta's parts / service site and got a model number for the belt that is supposed to be in there. "432021330001", but that doesn't tell me much about the length. Is this what other people have in there machines?http://www.mcmaster.com/#9003k14/=17x8xg. My pulleys have the same 6 notches in them but now I'm getting paranoid about the previous owner replacing the pulleys too. I was expecting a more "traditional" V belt like this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#=17xcu0 which would tell me the pulleys have been replaced too.

Thanks for everyone's responses and ideas.

[Chris Rosenberger]

That looks like the same size belt as the original. The shaper has the correct pulleys.
If you lower the spindle down the motor will move more. There is a notched area at the top end of the motor mounting bracket. The wider area of the mounting bracket needs to be below the main frame casting.
When you tighten the belt you need to be sure that the plunger is tight against the motor mounting bracket before tightening the thumb screw. It almost takes 3 hands to get it.

[J.R. Rutter]

Sounds like a poly-v belt. Better torque than standard v-belt. Less forgiving though, as you have found.

[Matthew Henderson]

So I finally got a new belt and installed it. Got a spare just in case too. Set the spindle to the slower setting and I'm back in business! I was able to crank the edge detail through at the middle speed of the feeder to prevent any burning of the hard maple. It is hard to sand the burns out of the small ridges when it happens. Thanks for everyone's help in pointing me to my problem.