VFD -FM 50 troubles

[Dave Redlin]

Hi All
I recently purchased a FM50 for my 46-450 Rockwell Delta Lathe. The original motor was 3-phase, so I picked up a FM 50 for the convertor. I was able to wire the motor and power supply to the FM 50, no problem so far as the motor turns on fine. However, where I'm running into trouble is in that the the on/off toggle switch and potentiometer that I'm using for the speed control, have no impact on the set up at all. I have them connected to the FM 50 but obviously I have some wire's crossed or run to the wrong termination. Does anyone have a simliar setup or a diagram that I can follow?

I've done a search regarding this and saw several threads that cover the topic...however, didn't see one that covered my issue.

Any suggestions or help is greatly appreciated!!

Thanks,
Dave

[Jeff Nicol]

Dave, When I hooked up mine I started out with the pot that was recommended buy TECO. It did not give me the amount of variable speed that I wanted so I switched it to a higher resistance and it works great. It recomends a 10 ohm pot but the one we used has more resistance, I ran out and looked at it and it is not marked but has some numbers on it and I can check it out tomorrow. Also make sure all the parameters are set correct in the soft ware, go to page 32 of the manuel and check to see is the settings are correct. Make sure you have the start stop set for "Terminal" and not keypad. If you need more help I can go check all the wiring on mine and make sure yours is the same.

Have a good night,

Jeff

[Bob Hallowell]

Function 11 need set to a 1, that disables the keyboard motor control and moves it to the anlog inputs.

Do you have the manual? if you should go through the programing section because thats where you set your limits for the freq variation and you stop speed and such.

Bob

[Dave Redlin]

Thanks for the replies Fellas! Yes, I have the manual, but really can't follow it. If there is a "dummy" version, I'll be the first to buy it! The pot I'm using is a 10 ohn. If I can get the system to recognize it, I will see how it affects the speed.

Thanks again!

Dave

[M Toupin]

As Bob said, you need to program the inputs. The manual is a bit difficult to understand to say the least.

You need to set function 10 (Start / Stop Control) to 1 for terminal control so your stop/start works from your remote switch. You also need to set function 10 (Frequency Control) to 1 so your remote potomiter works.

To program the unit press the DSP/FUN button and then use the up/down button to scroll to the function number. Press the ENT key to enter the mode and again use the up/down button to scroll to the proper setting then press ENT again to set it.

There's other settings you might want to play around with too to customize your setup. Accel.Time and Decel.Time are handy to set how slow the motor ramps up on start up and how fast the motor decelerates on shut down. The FM 50 has a limited breaking ability built in so you don't need a breaking resistor as long as the load is reasonably light and the deceleration time is reasonable. Play with it if you want, if the deceleration time is too fast and overloads the drive you'll get an error, but you won't hurt it.

There's other settings which might be beneficial to your set up too. Read through the manual and you'll find them.

Mike

[Dave Redlin]

:D Turnin' away! Thanks for the help Fellas! Maybe one day I'll get the manual deciphered and discover the whole potential of the FM 50. I did notice that the pot pretty much was an on/off switch. Will one with a higher resistance give me additional control? Jeff, is this the scenario you were referencing in your reply?

Thanks again!
Dave

[Mark Norman]

You have way too much bare wire sticking out of the terminals for my comfort level. I'd trim em up a bit for safety sake.

[Jeff Nicol]

Dave, When I hooked up the 10 ohm pot the response time was very slow and the variable speed was not very fast. With the pot we used the response (start) is almost instant and I can get it down to about 5 rpm before it stops. I did over clock it so that it tops out at 97hz and the lathe really flies at the high end! I never use it that high but I think the power at 35-45hz is better with the different potentiometer. The max I use is about 68hz but I am not sure what that equates to in RPM's. Mine is hooked to a 1hp motor and does a great job, I have thought of putting a little bigger pulley on the motor to give it a little more power but have not tried it yet.

Glad you got it going!

Jeff

[Bob Hallowell]

try this-
function 1 and 2 you can leave as defualt as they are accel and decel or soft start and stop and the are factory set at 5 seconds. I have mine at 3 seconds

function 3 and 4 are not use since you are using external controls

function 6 is you upper limit. your motor is prolly a 1750 so you can set that to 120 and it will double your speed and not hurt your motor

function 7 is your lower limit. I have a motor built to use with a vfd, mine is not cooled by a fan at the end so I can run mine at very low freq's. but I would set yours to 20 but only go that low for short peroids of time. You can put you hand on the motor and see if it is getting hot.

don't worry about function 8 and 9

function 10 and 11 like before are set to 1 for external controls

for your motor the rest can just be factory default.

Hope this helps

I do want to add that I am not sure what you mean by the pot is just and on/off. that is your speed control and the whole purpose of adding a vfd. I use a single pulley because of my motor and can go from about 100rpm to 2300 rpms with my pot. and yes your pot should be a 10kohm


Bob

[M Toupin]

:D I did notice that the pot pretty much was an on/off switch.

Potentiometers come in several varieties, be sure your using a linear taper potentiometer for a smooth speed curve, not a logarithmic taper potentiometer, which are common in the audio world.

Mike

[Dave Redlin]

Thanks for the replies! Bob, I changed the settings and it does seem to run smoother.

Mike and Jeff, I looked at radioshack.com and found the linear taper potentiometer you recommend. I'll pick one up today and give it a try. The model I currently have is the audio setup. Hopefully it will give me the variable speed I'm looking for.

Mark, thanks for the call out on the wires. Now that I'm up and running, I've cleaned house a bit and trimmed everything closer.

Thanks again,
Dave

[Bob Hallowell]

I used this one in the 10kohm version and it works great

http://www.mcmaster.com/#7436k37/=186w5d

Bob

[Dave Schell]

Since completing my Vicmarc build, I noticed that the speed adjust with the pot I am using goes from 0 to 32Hz right off the bat, and then slowing ramps up nicely from there. I've tried all kinds of programming adjustments, but no dice. After reading this thread, I'm wondering if I have the right pot too. Here is the specs of what I have (the ECX2300-10K) :

http://web3.automationdirect.com/static/specs/centspot.pdf

The specs don't say if it is a linear or logrithmic taper. It was a very expensive pot though ($35). Any help would be much appreciated.

[Dave Redlin]

Well, here's another question....with the 10kohm model, would a higher "ohm" give you more resistance and a little more control? Or is it over-kill??

Thanks,
Dave

[M Toupin]

Well, here's another question....with the 10kohm model, would a higher "ohm" give you more resistance and a little more control? Or is it over-kill??

I'm in no way an expert on potentiometers, all I know about them I posted above :D. TECO spec'd a 10k potentiometer for a reason I would assume.

I just used a potentiometer from Radio Shack and it works fine, zero to wide open with about a 270deg throw.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062354



Since completing my Vicmarc build, I noticed that the speed adjust with the pot I am using goes from 0 to 32Hz right off the bat, and then slowing ramps up nicely from there. I've tried all kinds of programming adjustments, but no dice. After reading this thread, I'm wondering if I have the right pot too. Here is the specs of what I have (the ECX2300-10K).

Check F7 (Frequency lower limit) and make sure it's set correctly. Also the wiring on your potentiometer. I had a a similar problem when I first wired mine. I don't recall exactly how the wires connected now, but I recall fiddling with it for a bit until I got it right.

Mike

[Dave Schell]

I did try to set the frequecy lower limit on my drive to 10hz. What happens when I do that is that the drive starts at 10hz when I push the start button, but again the pot does nothing until I turn it a bit and then it hits and jumps the frequency up to 32 hz again. The pot just seems to be "dead" for the first bit and then jumps to 50% and makes a smooth transition from there. The built-in pot on my actual drive works perfectly so I don't think it is a parameter setting of the drive. I contacted Technical Support at Automation Direct today (where I bought the pot) and the technician tested the same pot there to make sure it was a linear taper pot. His tested out fine and he gave me instructions to test mine with a digital meter. I'll try that tonight.

[Bob Hallowell]

Dave it sounds to me like you have a bad pot. if you put a meter on it you should see the resistence go you up from almost a short to 10kohm. It should be smooth. if the volt meter doesn't move much for a short period and then it jumps it's bad and send it back and get a new one.

Bob

[Dave Schell]

I tested the pot connected to the drive today and the volts go from 0 to 5 (50%) with a slight twist of the knob and then moves smoothly up the rest of the scale to 10. This mimics what I am seeing with the speed.

So I removed the pot and tested it using the ohm meter. With the meter leads between terminal 1 and 2, it shows a very smooth transition from 0 to 10k. However, with the leads between terminal 2 and 3, it jumps from 0 to 10k instantly. I'm assuming this means a bad pot, right? Thanks.

[Bob Hallowell]

I would say yes, 2 to 3 should be smooth going the other way I think. If you measure it hook to power you should see it go from 0 Vdc to 10 Vdc between 1 and 2 and the reverse on 2 to 3 10 Vdc to 0 vdc. so if it reads 2 volts between 1 and 2, it should be reading around 8 volts between 2 and 3.

Bob

[Lyle W. Kerr]

I was under the impression that all you needed was the FM50 for my 46-450 Rockwell lathe.

It is a 3Ph, 1HP model. Does anyone have pictures of their set up and/or a list of what I need to get up and running? I was going to swap the motor but this seemed to make more sense.

[Jeff Nicol]

I was under the impression that all you needed was the FM50 for my 46-450 Rockwell lathe.

It is a 3Ph, 1HP model. Does anyone have pictures of their set up and/or a list of what I need to get up and running? I was going to swap the motor but this seemed to make more sense.
Lyle, I will go out and look at mine and take some pictures and see what is what. Some times you have to go into the set up in the VFD to change the settings to use the remote switching and speed. It will tell you in the instructions what numbers to set and how to set it for your application.

Jeff

[Greg Bender]

Jeff or Dave,
I have a Woodfast with a DC drive and have bought a 3 phase,1.5 hp Baldor motor to do a repower.Is the VFD-50 a reasonable and reliable choice for my application.I like most of us is on a budget and need to find something affordable that will not give up the ghost.Does it have enough inputs to allow a remote control box.Where is the best place to pick one of these drives?Thanx,
Greg

[Dave Schell]

Greg, I can't help you with the Tec drive - I bought the Hitachi X200 instead. I did a bit of research and found the Hitachi drive had the most understandable manual of any on the market. With this user manual, I was confident I could program the drive myself. With some of the other manuals I looked at, I didn't have that confidence. This thread started out with someone who could not understand the TEC manual, so I would be a little careful. On the other hand, there are lots of guys on this forum that are using the TEC, so you have so ready expertise available as well. Good luck.

[Jeff Nicol]

Jeff or Dave,
I have a Woodfast with a DC drive and have bought a 3 phase,1.5 hp Baldor motor to do a repower.Is the VFD-50 a reasonable and reliable choice for my application.I like most of us is on a budget and need to find something affordable that will not give up the ghost.Does it have enough inputs to allow a remote control box.Where is the best place to pick one of these drives?Thanx,
Greg
Greg, This is where I got mine and the price is good, you will have to get the next size larger than what I used as I have a 1hp motor. Here is the link: http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.193/.f?category=30

The manuels are small but ledgible, just follow what it says and you should have no troubles. It comes with plenty of connections to do a remote, but as already been said earlier in this thread you will have to program the VFD for a remote application.

Have fun,

Jeff

[Greg Bender]

Jeff and Dave,
Thanx for the info and link,the one I need is $145 and that's not too bad.Dave,are the Hitachi's any less expensive.It's funny but in my years of dealing with Japanese PLC's ,Hitachi was the worst for working on and reprogramming.Go figure.
Greg