Saw blades and questions. Updated to quest for good plywood blade.

[Jim O'Dell]

I thought I'd get my 2 Systimatic blades sharpened. Went to a local place and was NOT impressed with the shape the building was in. Decided it was not the type of place I wanted to leave 150.00 worth of my blades at. Yeah, I probably should have gone in and talked to them, but I chose to pass from the driveway. I've got some questions out to another local place that is closed today, and to our own Scott Whiting from AZ that has a sharpening service.
One blade is in worse shape than I thought. About 18 teeth have some chips in them, mostly minor that might be able to be sharpened past if we got pretty aggressive with the sharpening. But if the tips had to be replaced, I just don't see it being economical. A normal sharpening if shipped off would be 12.00 to 20.00 depending on who is doing it, plus shipping, so 35.00 to 45.00 using a USPS flat rate box, and only sending 1 blade. I can replace with the exact same blade for 61.00. Box would hold 5 blades easy and that would cut down shipping expense per blade, but I don't have that many good blades. 2 max. I am asking Scott and the local place how much labor only would be to braze new tips on, and then sharpen, as I have a line on some Systimatic tips that are really cheap.

Now the question: In a combo blade, what do you like best, 40t or 50t. I have a 60 tooth triple chip grind blade for cross cuts, and a 30 tooth rip blade for, well, rips.:rolleyes: For general purpose cutting, I've used this 50t with good results. I do see that the 40t WWII has been on sale as low as 61.47 in the last 90 days at Amazon, and the PW charts say it is heading back that direction, currently just under 81.00. I know the WWII is a great blade by almost all accounts here and at other forums. Would I notice any difference between a WWII 40t combo as opposed to a Systimatic or Infinity 50t combo? Thanks for any info you can offer. Jim.

[Dewey Torres]

Would I notice any difference between a WWII 40t combo as opposed to a Systimatic or Infinity 50t combo? Thanks for any info you can offer. Jim.


Jim,
I have never owned a Systimatic or an Infinity but my guess is you would know the difference and on sale it would certainly not be a purchase you would regret trying. My guess is you won't go back after trying the WWII.

[Paul Murphy]

WII is an ATB blade, and will not leave a flat kerf if that makes a difference.

50 tooth combination blades are usually ATB+R and the raker leaves a flatter kerf.

Ridge has a 40 tooth ATB+R that gets good reviews.

Do a search if you want, one poster has an in depth review of quite a few blades. The reviews get into the compromise between blades, but in general there isn't tremendous difference in cut quality between the top blades of 40 to 50 teeth.

I have a 30 tooth WWII that cuts cleaner than most mid level 50 tooth blades. The WWII has little side clearance, and will pick up pitch a little more quickly than some other blades. I just bought the Ridge 40 tooth, and haven't really used it much yet, but so far so good. I like the thick plate on the Ridge, it is very stable.

[scott spencer]

Hi Jim - I'll leave the sharpening questions for Scott.

There are a lot of variables involved that make meaningful generalizations tough because there are so many exceptions. Keeping in mind that there's never a free lunch....for every pro there's a con. If all else is equal, more teeth should equate to a smoother edge and less tearout, but with more resistance and increased chance of burning. With that said, your 60T TCG blade as a crosscutter will be a mixed bag...it has adequate tooth count, and should leave smooth edges, but will likely have more tearout than an ATB or a Hi-ATB grind in the same exact configuration. The TCG will keep an edge longer than the other two grinds, so it'll do what it does for longer. The hook angle will play a factor too....a lower hook angle tends to have less tearout but has higher resistance than a positive hook angle....similar to more vs less teeth. I think you may find some opportunity to get more from your crosscuts with an ATB or Hi-ATB blade.

Within the classification of general purpose blades, there are still overall strengths and weakness with certain models. The same principles that define the strengths and weaknesses of task specific baldes pertain to GP blades as well, so choosing the right GP blade can depend on what you do most. As a "not necessarily meaningful generalization", I tend to find that most standard 40T ATB grinds like the WWII 40T, DW7657, Tenryu Gold Medal, Infinity General (010-040) and Ridge Carbide TS2000, tend to leave less pronounced edge marks than standard 50T ATB/R grinds that use flat rakers. It's logical to assume it's the flat raker that's leaving the more pronounced marks, and possibly the space from the large gullet, but side clearances play a role too. One possible exception is the Infinity Combomax 50T ATB/R because it uses a chamfered raker vs a flat raker on it's ATB/R configuration, and leaves less pronounced saw marks than the other 50T combos I've tried (Freud LU84, DeWalt 7640, Leitz/Irwin 50T, and Tenryu RS25550). I've noticed very little difference in tearout between the 40T ATB blades and the 50T ATB/R types. I tend to think the 40T ATB blades also rip a bit more efficiently, but that's another generalization that changes from blade to blade depending on the finer details of the blade's configuration.

The 40T Hi-ATB Freud Fusion and Infinity "Super" General (010-044) blades are in a different subset than the other types. Both have a dual side grind, and a 30° top bevel (which is about double the WWII geometry). They have notably lower tearout than the other GP blades, and the dual side grind leaves a more polished edge. The downside is that they're less efficient at ripping, more prone to burning, and more susceptible to tip abrasion.

There are also some 30T general purpose ATB variations that can fill a niche....the WWII 30T and the former DW7653 (now the Delta 35-7653) are two examples of GP blades that rip more efficiently than most, and still offer respectable crosscuts. They're weakness is fine crosscuts, ply, and sheetgoods.

Once you reach a certain quality level, the best choice is largely a matter of preference and your objectives .

[Andrew Joiner]

I've had good luck with borg blades. I just got 2 packs of Dewalt 3106 for $30. That's $15 a blade for a great combo blade. It's $15 ea for my local sharpening shop to sharpen ,so I will use and toss.

I tested a bunch of borg blades and the 60 tooth 3106 was fine. I just asked the borg tool guy " if these blades don't cut as good as the package claims can I return them?" Yup if your not happy with the cut after testing just return.

The Dewalt DW3106 is so close in cut quality to my expensive blades I won't be visiting the sharpening shop for a long time!

[Jim O'Dell]

Scott, your information is appreciated!! After reading your post, I've done some more research, part of which is your updated blade comparison chart, and I think I need to re-evaluate what I am looking for. I have the WWII 30t thin kerf that is in your chart. Looks like it is a keeper. I got it on sale last summer, and it still has the rubber protective coating on the teeth. Great find at about 53.00 after the final mark down on Amazon (free shipping to boot). So that will work for my combo blade for now. I still have my Systimatic 60 tooth laminate blade that does fair for cross cuts. I've been using it on the SCMS lately while I wait to purchase a specific blade for it. So I guess what I really need a quality plywood blade that will work with hardwood veneer ply, instead of a combo blade. Maybe I can get a cheap sharpen on the Systimatic 50t I have, and use it for cutting 2X material, and not worry about the broken teeth.
So, when will you get around to doing a chart for SCMS and Plywood blades???? :D:D:D Actually, I know of several SCMS blades that will work well. Anyone have any preferences for a plywood blade? Jim.

edit: What makes a great plywood blade better for that purpose over say a combo blade? More teeth? Different hook angle? With or without raker? Thanks!!

[scott spencer]

....

edit: What makes a great plywood blade better for that purpose over say a combo blade? More teeth? Different hook angle? With or without raker? Thanks!!

More teeth is good, but I think it's the grind that makes the most difference....Hi-ATB is as clean as it gets. Combine a Hi-ATB grind with higher tooth count and a moderate hook angle, and that's about as good as it gets. Infinity 010-080, or 010-060, Freud LU79(TK) or LU80, Forrest Duraline, Forrest WWI are all excellent. I'm fond of the 010-060 as a ply and general purpose blade....it's a super compliment to your WWII 30T TK.

HTH!

[John Thompson]

I just recieved an Oshlun 40 T ATB from Brian at Holbren for $25 to use as a general purpose blade. I have the Infinity 40 T General and 40 T Super Generals (both great blades). But.. I wanted something to cut ply on the occasion I use it which is mainly for drawer bottoms and chest dust backs.

I just used that blade for the first time about 45 minutes ago to size some 1/2" ply. I started to use painters tape over the cut line and thought what the heck as it was not going to be seen inside the cabinet. So... I just cut it and I was more than surprised.

It left the ply splinter free and I was kind of shocked... and in a good way I may add. So... fuel for thought if you only do ply on occasion as I do.

Good luck...

Sarge..

[Jim O'Dell]

More teeth is good, but I think it's the grind that makes the most difference....Hi-ATB is as clean as it gets. Combine a Hi-ATB grind with higher tooth count and a moderate hook angle, and that's about as good as it gets. Infinity 010-080, or 010-060, Freud LU79(TK) or LU80, Forrest Duraline, Forrest WWI are all excellent. I'm fond of the 010-060 as a ply and general purpose blade....it's a super compliment to your WWII 30T TK.

HTH!

Interesting...the 010-060 was one I was considering for the SCMS since it is their RAS blade. although going back and looking between the RAS blade and the Miter saw blade, the RAS is +5 rake, and the Miter is -5 rake which should actually be better for a SCMS, but is 80t. HMMMM more and more things to think about. I actually like the Systimatic specs better for the SCMS. -6 rake, 60t, and about 15.00 less. But ordering from Infinity gets some discount, and free shipping over 100.00. Overall, getting both Systimatic blades from Carbide Processors would be about 10.00 less. But the web site doesn't show what the grind angle is...I have an email out to them for that question.


I just recieved an Oshlun 40 T ATB from Brian at Holbren for $25 to use as a general purpose blade. I have the Infinity 40 T General and 40 T Super Generals (both great blades). But.. I wanted something to cut ply on the occasion I use it which is mainly for drawer bottoms and chest dust backs.

I just used that blade for the first time about 45 minutes ago to size some 1/2" ply. I started to use painters tape over the cut line and thought what the heck as it was not going to be seen inside the cabinet. So... I just cut it and I was more than surprised.

It left the ply splinter free and I was kind of shocked... and in a good way I may add. So... fuel for thought if you only do ply on occasion as I do.

Good luck...

Sarge..

Yeah, yeah, muddy the waters even more for me!!:p Thanks for the info Sarge...I'll go look to see what's available.

Thanks guys! Jim.