What is this? Chinese plywood... [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Rick Gifford

03-28-2009, 11:18 AM

Bought some chinese plywood today. Have I ever mentioned how I hate this stuff?

But for lack of anything better readily available...

I am putting together a toybox. Going to be painted so I dont see a need for anything too fancy.

I didnt see this until I was cutting the dado's. The blades bore down and fibers started kicking out.

What the?

This is what was embedded between the layers. This one is a first for me. It is bad enough this cheap plywood has gaps and the layers dont hold together.. but now it has turned into Cracker Jack Plywood. Never know what kind of prize you will get.

I will be pointing this out to the Big Orange store I got it from.

114206

114207

Did I mention I hate chinese plywood? :rolleyes:

Rick Gifford

03-28-2009, 11:22 AM

I just went back out and examined the other piece. I now know what that is.

Believe it or not it is a basketball.

Dear Lord... next time at least include a tool or something!

Ben Franz

03-28-2009, 11:47 AM

I've been building shop cabinets and decided to buy some plywood at the BORG. The stuff I got is called Arauco plywood on the label - I won't tell you what I call it :mad:. Out of 8 or 9 sheets I returned 2 because they were so bad even before cutting. The lumber dept. manager tried to claim that it was the low humidity in NM that caused problems for everyone selling sheet goods. I think that's a crock - decent goods from hardwood suppliers aren't as unstable. Learned my lesson (again :() - you get what you pay for.

Stephen Edwards

03-28-2009, 11:52 AM

I just went back out and examined the other piece. I now know what that is.

Believe it or not it is a basketball.

Dear Lord... next time at least include a tool or something!

Who "wood" ever have imagined that?! If you drop a sheet of does it bounce on the floor? :D

Joe Scharle

03-28-2009, 12:48 PM

We've stopped using the stuff after one of the local group members hit some metal and tore up his saw blade.

Robert Parrish

03-28-2009, 1:42 PM

Roger Jensen

03-28-2009, 1:46 PM

Unfortunately, it's probably the stuff you don't see in it that is the REAL problem. If you put this stuff in your house you'll be breathing formaldehyde and who knows what else for months. They have no safety controls on their glues or other additives.

As long as Americans keep buying this stuff because it is cheaper than US-made plywood they'll keep pumping it out as cheaply as they can, cutting whatever corners they can to save a few bucks per sheet.

Roger

jim sauterer

03-28-2009, 1:51 PM

same thing happened to me with no prize.i never cut plywood with sparks coming out of it some sort of metal.emailed home depot they dont care.store manager told me they sell quite a bit of it with no returns.never again for me it is crap.i ripped the sheet lenght wise and went to move it and snap it delaminated in the middle.i cant believe all the junk we import that is not worth a darn.just my 2 cents.jim

David DeCristoforo

03-28-2009, 2:28 PM

Those guys in the plywood factory are probably still wondering what the hey ever happened to their basketball....

Pat Germain

03-28-2009, 5:29 PM

Wow, that's pretty amazing, Rick. Seems that plywood manufacturer has a few quality control problems to say the least.

I don't care where it's made. If it's a good product sold for a good price, I'll use it. If it's a lousy product at any price, I won't.

My Grizzly machines were made in China and they're awesome! My pickup truck was made in the USA and it's a poorly engineered, unreliable mess.

Bob Slater

03-28-2009, 5:34 PM

I Sense a Tide turning...at least I hope so. Price without quality is of no value.

John Keeton

03-28-2009, 6:36 PM

Chinese plywood is China's waste disposal system. Works pretty good - they put their garbage in it, ship it to us, and we pay top dollar for it. You gotta hand to 'em - not a bad system!!

Peter Quinn

03-28-2009, 6:48 PM

Hey, wait a minute, a good basket ball costs more than a sheet of C-4 plywood. So you got a free basket ball and you are complaining! The nerve!:rolleyes:

Benjamin Dahl

03-28-2009, 6:56 PM

maybe it is not china ply but some recycled boston garden parquet. you might have a piece of history.;)

Roger Jensen

03-28-2009, 8:00 PM

Just imagine what they grind up for their particle board...

Mark Bolton

03-28-2009, 8:29 PM

Whats really scary about this stuff is that as a woodworker you can choose not to use the stuff if you want. But as the drywall post mentioned, how many contractors are incorporating this stuff into their work merely due to the cost savings. Imagine an entire house subfloored with this stuff. Its burried under tile, carpet, linoleum. Wall sheathing, and so on.

It would seem to me its the stuff we dont know about thats scary. Not that this pertains to my other post but it seems some things could surely be awry here.

Mark

Daniel Winsor

03-28-2009, 8:31 PM

Just imagine what they grind up for their particle board...

Well they already poisoned dog food, milk powder, and toothpaste so they could save money. I guess poisoning plywood isn't such a stretch after all.

Dan

Leo Graywacz

03-28-2009, 8:32 PM

Chinese plywood is China's waste disposal system. Works pretty good - they put their garbage in it, ship it to us, and we pay top dollar for it. You gotta hand to 'em - not a bad system!!

You beat me to it. Just look at what they put in various products they sell. Melamine in baby formula, garbage in plywood, sulfur in drywall. Just like you said, their goods are their dumping grounds.. No wonder they can sell it for so cheap, it's all garbage.....really.

Ben Rafael

03-28-2009, 10:01 PM

If they put that in plywood I wonder what they put in their sausage.:eek::eek::eek:

In all fairness. I just bought some american made cherry plywood. It is full of voids and has way too many spots that are not glued.
I haven't had a good piece of plywood from the US or china in years.
I bought some phenolic laminated plywood, made in the US a few weeks ago and when I got it home and was about to cut it I noticed it was out of flat, bad enough that it was useless. I took it back to where I bought it. I couldn't find another piece that was close enough to flat to be useful.
Let's face it; plywood aint what it used to be.

Wilbur Pan

03-28-2009, 10:15 PM

You beat me to it. Just look at what they put in various products they sell. Melamine in baby formula, garbage in plywood, sulfur in drywall. Just like you said, their goods are their dumping grounds.. No wonder they can sell it for so cheap, it's all garbage.....really.

Not to mention salmonella in peanuts, peanut products, and spinach.

Oh, wait...that was here in the U.S.

Dave Cav

03-28-2009, 10:26 PM

My plywood dealer used to sell Chinese plywood. I got a couple of sheets, and had problems with the plies delaminating. Last week he showed me a sheet that came back- a commercial cabinet shop was using a CNC router and hit a piece of metal. They pulled the plies apart and found a 6" piece of rotary slicer knife embedded in it.

Leo Graywacz

03-28-2009, 10:28 PM

That must of made that expensive router bit look nice.

Justin McCarthy

03-29-2009, 12:04 AM

I haven't purchased any ply in awhile. How would one know if you buy this? Do you have to look for the "made in China" label?

I'm staying away!

Rick Gifford

03-29-2009, 1:27 AM

I haven't purchased any ply in awhile. How would one know if you buy this? Do you have to look for the "made in China" label?

I'm staying away!

In this case it has Made in China stamped on the side.

As a continuation of the thread, I took the layered pieces back to the store and they replaced with a new sheet of plywood.

I have looked in most places I could think of and I am unable to find anyone selling domestic plywood around here.

I have no idea what I will do if I need quality plywood...

David Weiser

03-29-2009, 2:45 AM

Those guys in the plywood factory are probably still wondering what the hey ever happened to their basketball....

LOL! I bet they are looking for a lot of other things. I will holler if I find a tennis ball in my plywood.

Neal Clayton

03-29-2009, 2:51 AM

I live down the road from a subdivision that is made of Chinese drywall!! Most of the residents have had to move out because of the smell and the fact that all their wiring and plumbing is corroding. I try to avoid buying anything made in China but it is almost impossible!!

that happened after the hurricane in new orleans too. the borgs brought in that chinese drywall and sold it by the truckload. now alot of those people who completely rebuilt their houses couldn't give them away because it all has to be torn out and done again.

Christopher Pine

03-29-2009, 10:52 AM

This plywood is in my experience around $5 to $10 a sheet cheaper, Than the wood supplier whoich offers a quality product. The little extra price is worth it!
Chris

Jack Ellis

03-29-2009, 4:12 PM

I've been building shop cabinets and decided to buy some plywood at the BORG. The stuff I got is called Arauco plywood on the label - I won't tell you what I call it :mad:. Out of 8 or 9 sheets I returned 2 because they were so bad even before cutting.

I've used this stuff (from Lowes) for shop cabinets and I've been pretty happy with it, especially for the price. Except perhaps for the 6 mm ( 1/4 inch), which tends to warp. I used the 1/2 inch for drawers and the only (minor) complaint there is that it tends to fuzz a bit when routed.

Chris Barnett

03-29-2009, 4:37 PM

They have solved the problem of getting rid of their old folks...ever see "Solyent Green"...I saw it when working in Japan...:eek:

Jeff Skory

03-29-2009, 7:15 PM

So where do you go to get quality plywood? I also have pretty much stopped buying it from the Borg for all the mentioned reasons.

How about small sheets of quality ply for building jigs?

Is there an online supply that can be trusted?

Michael Pyron

03-29-2009, 7:32 PM

where to go?

even the lumber yards are often not a good bet...I've got 2 decent local suppliers and both have their 'issues' when it comes to supplying kwality products...

I've been using a LOT of cherry plywood...the closest location has some stuff, that as it turns out, is from Indonesia (it rather upset me off that they had some cardboard labeled Dixie Products covering it...as that led me to believe it was domestic)...this Indonesia stuff is pretty worthless as the veneer is ~1/200th of an inch thick...I'm not joking...the other supplier is a rather decent drive away and their cherry is from China....actually its some pretty nice stuff....decent thickness veneer and some grain patterns to die for...I got about 5 sheets out of an order of 30 sheets that were HEAVILY quilted and turned honey orange when finished....blows the eyes away....the stuff from Indonesia is flatter (probably those 2 layers of 1/8" MDF on each side) but just doesn't really look like cherry in color...it looks good in the location I put it so that's OK...the more distant supplier finally got a good amount in so I switched to it for various reasons...the latest stuff I've been building for the restaurant I'm working on needs to have no MDF in it and also I get a discount there and end up getting better, prettier plywood for $10 a sheet cheaper...$82.50 still isn't cheap, but its decent....

I've noticed pretty much all plywood in the past few years being a joke as compared to what I used to be able to get let's say 10 years ago....rather annoying to say the least...I will say that Lowe's has some pretty decent domestic made Maple ply....

Tony Bilello

03-29-2009, 7:37 PM

As far as I am concerned, all of their lumber is pure crap.
I travel about an hour each way through some rough Houston traffic to buy quality hardwood and plywood.
If you buy at the Borg, they will continue to carry crap.

Jeff Skory

03-29-2009, 10:12 PM

I haven't checked out Lowes yet. I'll do that next time I'm there. I'm definitely done with HD though. The last time I was there it seems that half of all their boards, sheets, etc. were all bowed.

Myk Rian

03-29-2009, 10:24 PM

Michael Donahue

03-29-2009, 10:57 PM

I live down the road from a subdivision that is made of Chinese drywall!! Most of the residents have had to move out because of the smell and the fact that all their wiring and plumbing is corroding. I try to avoid buying anything made in China but it is almost impossible!!

Wow! I still can't believe that it's cheaper to import something as heavy as drywall all the way from China instead of buying it from North America. The drywall at my local HD is from Canada, but I guess that's because we're in CT and (relatively) close to our neighbors up north.

If this is the 'cabinet grade' plywood at HD, I'm not surprised you're having so much trouble. I've seen this stuff there and I'd be surprised if 50% of those sheets ever stay flat :(

Ken Higginbotham

03-30-2009, 7:11 AM

Sounds like head cheese :p

Headcheese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_cheese)

Stephen Edwards

03-30-2009, 7:46 AM

Sounds like head cheese :p

Headcheese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_cheese)

Too funny!! I actually tried to buy the domain name headcheese.com a little over a year ago. Someone already owned it. Drats! However, I did get headcheeze.com and sousemeat.com ! Now, you've given me an idea. Perhaps I can market those domain names to certain plywood manufacturers or retailers. Or better yet, perhaps buy try to buy the domain name headcheeseplywood.com! Too funny!

Alex Shanku

03-30-2009, 8:03 AM

I haven't checked out Lowes yet. I'll do that next time I'm there. I'm definitely done with HD though. The last time I was there it seems that half of all their boards, sheets, etc. were all bowed.

Where do you go???

You drive to the city and go to a real lumberyard/plywood dealer.

http://www.allamericaplywood.com/

On John R. I used to buy all my sheetgoods there.

Marty Paulus

03-30-2009, 8:41 AM

Alex Shanku

03-30-2009, 9:24 AM

I have gotten some boards from here. Not sure about their ply but if you are going to go to All American these guys are just around the corner. Can compare pricing and quality.

http://www.publiclumber.com/

Great lumberyard. I used to buy the bulk of my hardwood there when I lived in Detroit. They didnt have the greatest selection of plywood last time I was there (2 years ago), but what they did have was very nice and affordable.

Just keep the windows up and the doors locked!:rolleyes:

Fred Belknap

03-30-2009, 10:05 AM

In this case it has Made in China stamped on the side.

As a continuation of the thread, I took the layered pieces back to the store and they replaced with a new sheet of plywood.

I have looked in most places I could think of and I am unable to find anyone selling domestic plywood around here.

I have no idea what I will do if I need quality plywood...

I haven't found a source either in central WV. Was cutting a sheet of Asian plywood and saw sparks coming off my saw blade. I checked and found that I had sawed a utility knife blade in two. Cost $40 to fix the WW-II.

Neal Clayton

03-30-2009, 11:09 AM

Wow! I still can't believe that it's cheaper to import something as heavy as drywall all the way from China instead of buying it from North America. The drywall at my local HD is from Canada, but I guess that's because we're in CT and (relatively) close to our neighbors up north.

If this is the 'cabinet grade' plywood at HD, I'm not surprised you're having so much trouble. I've seen this stuff there and I'd be surprised if 50% of those sheets ever stay flat :(

i don't think it was necessarily cheaper, just a lack of supply. the people that got hit worst by the bad drywall were those in florida/mississippi/alabama/louisiana after a hurricane. i think the cheap stuff from china was brought in to fill excess demand.

Bill Blackburn

03-30-2009, 11:10 AM

Even the better high end lumber yards around me carry mostly the China made plywood.:(

Now I don't care for it at all but the guy(s at the city desk(s) say it best - "we, being Americans, really don't want) to pay more. This is what we get."

As much as it troubles me to admit it -- he's way more accurate than we are willing to admit. I'm willing to pay what I pay and maybe a tiny bit more but my gosh - it's gotten so expensive I'd also find I stop doing things totally before I can pay what I'm seeing for good plywood.

5/8" 9 layer thin veneer maple. 4x8 sheet. $147. It is good product but come on now! Money does not grow on my maple trees out yonder either

Steve Clardy

03-30-2009, 11:14 AM

Getting hard to find decent plywood anywhere.
I've found metal twice lately in 1/2" birch ply.
Looks like razor blades. Sure takes the edge off the saw blade.

Edit. I do not buy, never have, HD or Lowes material

Byron Trantham

03-30-2009, 11:25 AM

If you look for the SKU on the board it will be in one of two place (at the Borgs), either on the surface of the plywood (Chinese) or on the edge (American made). The surface label is HD or Lowe's label about 2" square. A US label will be about 1/2"W x 3-4"L and have their name on it. Apparently the Chinese don't know how or don't care to put a SKU on their products. Hope this helps.

Roger Jensen

03-30-2009, 11:34 AM

Since folks go with the cheaper product almost all of the time the Chinese have won the battle.

I'm building my own kitchen cabinets, so paying $70 for pre-finished, American-made plywood isn't going to kill me. However, if I was a cabinet maker and I had to come in with a low bid I'd use the imported stuff. I may give the person two quotes - one with American plywood and one with imported, just in case the customer was a pro buy American person or was worried about the health hazards.

Oh well, it is the world of globalization we live in today.

Roger

guy knight

03-30-2009, 12:20 PM

My Grizzly machines were made in China and they're awesome! My pickup truck was made in the USA and it's a poorly engineered, unreliable mess.

my grizz 609 jointer made in china was made when they ran out of air all of the bolts were loose and 2 broke when tightening them cheap bolts as far as American trucks i only buy 1 ton ford and gm and have great trucks wont buy a dodge to many friends had bad luck with those and the 2 i rented new mind you were junk

Bill Blackburn

03-30-2009, 12:25 PM

Since folks go with the cheaper product almost all of the time the Chinese have won the battle.

Oh well, it is the world of globalization we live in today.

Roger

Guess that be the simplest way to explain things. The cheaper thing seems to have become the way to go or what we want in the 70s and taken off from there.

I do think it's just like buying dope - there would be no market it we stopped using but it seems the boat long ago left the dock. Today with so many struggling to make ends meet we will likely see further increases from elsewhere. I think we totally have lost this war and may as well wave the white flag and at least start forcing the importers, whom ever they be, to use some decent QC and standards. We can do that .... but likley won't. It is all about profit today.

Justin McCarthy

03-30-2009, 2:42 PM

For those folks who are having blades dulled or ruined by this cheap stuff, i hope that you are not only demanding a replacement ply but also that the BORG pay for the sharpening of your saw blade...... Seems only right to me.

Only if we demand better from the BORGS we will get better.

This is not only irritating but dangerous. I'd hate to have my life ruined by a piece of cheap junk ply. Perhaps a lumber wizard is now a necessity for woodworkers with NEW wood.

Eric Gustafson

03-30-2009, 3:17 PM

As of late, HD has been stocking Arauco plywood. I bought a sheet that measured .704" for where I needed 3/4". This ply was very good for a softwood ply. Consistent, very few voids, and did not warp. Maybe with the slowdown in the housing market, better ply will be back at the borgs.

Chris Padilla

03-30-2009, 4:21 PM

I've been seeing tiny bits of metal in my MDF from the borg although it hasn't caused me any issues.

My engineered maple wood floor (~1/8" thick veneer, "hand-planed" look) is from China and so far is doing very well and looks great. Not everything from China is bad but just like anywhere, there are good and bad.

Glen Butler

03-30-2009, 11:40 PM

LOL! I bet they are looking for a lot of other things. I will holler if I find a tennis ball in my plywood.

Well I am a bit late but it appears everyone has passed on the obvious joke. What ever happened to Cho Mi Ling?

James Carmichael

03-31-2009, 7:37 AM

Greg Deakins

03-31-2009, 9:12 AM

aside from the basketball, it seems all we find in our plywood is weaponry. I for one am a little offended to have knives kicked back at me.

John Carlo

03-31-2009, 1:51 PM

My hardwood lumber supplier told me the plywood he sells comes from trees cut here and made into plywood over there. He says he buys it and sells it for $6 a sheet less than the pure domestic version. This plywood has sliced red oak vernier rather than lathe cut and looks like beautifully edge joined boards. I love it and find the cores are excellent.

Bill White

03-31-2009, 2:12 PM

While in my local BORG Sunday, I noticed their hardwood-veneer plywoods were once-again domestic, lumber-core Columbian. Yea!

From the top 10 signs of a slow economy:
"You walk into Home Depot and someone in orange offers to help"

On the same note, I guess they're starting to listen to their customers.

Having lived in Atlanta for 15 yrs., I remember when the standard at HD was "don't point a customer, take a customer where they will find the product". Now ya can't even find someone to point. Our Lowe's is WAY better on customer, and the folks at the commercial desk are super.
Bill