Gloat and First Attempt

[Cody Colston]

I've been wanting to attempt carving and between that desire and Mike Henderson's tutorials, I've taken the plunge.

I got 10 Pheil chisels from Woodcraft and just finished a practice attempt at a ball & claw foot. I band sawed a scrap piece of Sweetgum turning stock for the blank. After carving, I wiped on a coat of Cherry gel stain to help with the details.

It's not very refined but it's a start. I hope to get better.

Mike, any chance of a ball & claw tutorial? :)

[Jim Kountz]

Whoa first one?? Amazing!! I think you have this down, really.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Looks good for a first attempt. My first wasn't that nice.

[mike holden]

Cody,
Excellent first try! especially for on your own!

What type of claw & ball were you trying for?
The reason I ask, is most have webbing between the knuckles and over the ball slightly, this appears missing from yours.

This seems to be very chinese in style (the originators of the claw & ball foot) as the chinese dragon did not have the webbing.

I would recommend either of the John Kirk books, American Chairs or American Furniture, for a good overview of a variety of styles. He shows British and French chairs/furniture in these books as well to show the differences. Good source books.

Mike

[Cody Colston]

Thanks for the comments, guys.

Mike, I was attempting to carve a er, Chinese inspired ball & claw. yeah, that's what I was attempting to do! ;)

Actually, I had no idea except "ball & claw." After carving it I looked at some pictures I have in a book and realized that I should have left some webbing between the talons, along with including another knuckle on the three front ones, plus the knuckles I carved were a bit knobby and the claws were too fat. Other than that, I think it was okay. :D

I think I like the Philadelphia style best although perhaps with a slightly more pronounced claw. I'm practicing on another one and hopefully it will be better.

Thanks again for the comments.

[Bill Bolen]

Fin job Cody...you will only get better...Bill..

[Mike Henderson]

Looks terrific for a first attempt. Looks terrific even for a later attempt. No simple little shells or flowers for you:)

Good job. I could do a ball and claw tutorial but I'm not that experienced in carving them (I've only done a few). Maybe we could talk one of the more experienced carvers on the forum to do a tutorial.

Mike

[Dewey Torres]

Looks terrific for a first attempt. Looks terrific even for a later attempt. No simple little shells or flowers for you:)

Good job. I could do a ball and claw tutorial but I'm not that experienced in carving them (I've only done a few). Maybe we could talk one of the more experienced carvers on the forum to do a tutorial.

Mike


Mike Holden...I think he means you!

[mike holden]

Dewey,
Thank you, but first I have to get well (getting there, I go to the doctor today and hopefully he will remove the last tube sticking out of me) and then of course there is a group build box to do my part of! (grin)
Mike

In the meantime, I would recommend either Phil Lowe or Andy Marlow for printed instructions on carving claw and ball feet, Phil Lowe for his video if you prefer visual. mike

[mike holden]

Cody,
I owe you an apology.

Turns out that claw & ball feet without webs are more prevalent than I thought.

First, here is what I thought of first when I saw your foot:
114559
Taken at the summer palace outside of Beijing

But, when I was going over some magazines last night, I came across this:
114560

So, you are far more correct than I thought, sorry.

Mike

[Cody Colston]

It's cool, Mike. You know that old adage, "even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then." I certainly didn't know what I was doing...and still don't, for that matter. :D

Actually, I was looking through Nutting's "Furniture Treasury" last night and saw some examples without the webbing. But, I'm doing a practice one with webbing and I think I like it better.

Nutting also wrote that the first known instance of a ball & claw being used in furniture was an 8th Century piece from China. It has something to do with a Dragon protecting the world. Different strokes, evidently. :)

[David Keller NC]

"Actually, I had no idea except "ball & claw." After carving it I looked at some pictures I have in a book and realized that I should have left some webbing between the talons, along with including another knuckle on the three front ones, plus the knuckles I carved were a bit knobby and the claws were too fat. Other than that, I think it was okay."

Mike H.'s posted some examples, but the one you carved without webbing is probably the more prevalent style. Philadelphia B&C feet typically have an understated webbing between the front toes, a short set of talons, and somewhat pronounced knuckles. Massachusetts & New England B&C feet typically have no webbing, somewhat more pronounced talons, and back-swept side toes. Newport B&C feet have very pronounced talons, somewhat knobby knuckles on the toes, no webbing, and in some cases (Goddard-Townsend school), separated feet/balls and separated talons. Finally, New York B&C feet are very easy to recognize - the front profile has the top knuckles of the front and side toes at exactly the same height, which gives the overall appearance of being "squared".

Guys - It might be possible for me to offer a tutorial on this subject, but it will take me a while. While Phil Lowe and Allan Breed can knock one of these out in a couple of hours, I'm not that efficient. It'll take a day of carving with photos.

Cody - A couple of suggestions. Gum (if it's the sweetgum that we have here in the South) is extraordinarily difficult to carve. Even for practice, I'd suggest going slightly upscale and using a block of basswood from Henicke, or mahogany if you've a local source for 16/4 turning blanks. White pine, if you can find it in 4" beams that has a clear section for 3 feet, also makes great practice wood, but your tools have to be sharp.

And, if you'd like an example by a true master at this, Phil Lowe's now 25-year old video "Carve a Ball and Claw Foot" is a classic, and for good reason. It's available reasonably from Taunton, and is well worth buying and watching.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Cody, that's terrific for a first attempt, I can't imagine what you will do after a few years of practice under your belt.

[Cody Colston]

Thanks, Zahid.

David, a tutorial would be great if you are able. I also discovered that dry Sweetgum is difficult to carve. I've turned a bunch of it green and it cuts like butter but when it gets dry, it gets really hard.

I've switched to Cedar for practice, at least until I have a better idea of what I'm doing. The Cedar is brittle but at least it's soft and I don't trash the edge on my gouges too quickly.

I'll check out that book.

[Zahid Naqvi]

I'd be interested in a ball and claw tutorial too, in fact that's why I got into carving because I wanted to me these.

Any takers to do a B&C tutorial?

[David Keller NC]

Guys - I just did an internet search for Phil's video. It looks like it's out of print for the moment (out of video, actually). The one I have is VHS, and I'm guessing that you may be able to get it in DVD format from Taunton - I'd be surprised if they didn't update it to current format sometime soon, as it really is the go-to video for this subject.

You can buy one used, but it's going to cost - a couple of sellers on Amazon had it for $80, which is a lot to pay for a perishable format like VHS.

You may want to ping Taunton and ask them if this title is due to be released in DVD soon, because it's going to be far easier to learn to carve these from this video than it is from a SMC tutorial, no matter how well done.

[David Keller NC]

So for those looking for a printed resource for carving these - I found my Taunton book "Period Furniture Details" by Lonnie Bird. There's a pretty decent tutorial on carving ball and claw feet on pages 46-48, with enough photographs to explain how to do it (and frankly, as many photos as is typical for SMC tutorials). The book, like most Taunton publications, has been reprinted endlessly, so it's cheap on Amazon - about $17, I think.

What Lonnie illustrates is a typical Philadelphia ball and claw - other regions will be a bit different as described in the post I wrote above.

[Cody Colston]

I have the Lonnie Bird book...I got it after I made that first practice attempt.

What I found interesting is that he carves the ball with basically just a 3/8" bench chisel. I tried with a 1/2" but quickly went back to my carving gouges.

[David Keller NC]

Cody - yeah, interstingly enough, there's a number of teachers that use a flat chisel to get the ball to the "soup can" stage. I suspect that this is the most efficient method if you're planning on getting the finished surface with sandpaper and/or rasps.

My own personal preference is not to use abrasives - I want evidence of carving left behind, just not too much evidence. For that reason, I carve the ball with a couple of #3 (Pfiel system) gouges, the talons with an inverted #7 gouge, and the sweep between the knuckles along the length of the talon with a #5 gouge. These tools result in a ball of about 3" in diameter, which I think is about right for a tea table.

For larger case pieces, I go for a slightly larger ball of about 4", but have still been able to use the #3 as the primary tool for getting the ball cylindirical and then round.