Self adhesive rule that came with my table saw....junk?

[Craig Johnson]

I bought my Steel City table saw last year and had noticed the self adhesive rule that came with it was off by at least a 16th or more when measuring/cutting longer distances with the fence.
The fence is in alignment with the blade so Im pretty sure thats not the problem.
Measurements under about a foot and a half or so are fine.
What I did do was peel that one off and replace it with a Starrett.
So far so good based on what I measured.
My question is are all of the ones that come with the saw junk?
I would assume they dont spend a lot on real accurate ones.

What say you....

[Chip Lindley]

Those printed measuring tapes do not *go bad* in two years. Craig, sounds like this is an *issue* that needs to be taken up with Steel City! Give 'em an Inch, they'll Take a Mile!

[Tom Veatch]

...My question is are all of the ones that come with the saw crap?...

Not necessarily - either way. All tapes/rules have some inherent inaccuracies, some more than others. You often find differences in a measured dimension when you take the same measurement with two or more measuring devices that aren't calibrated and traceable back to a certified standard. That's why it's always a good idea to use story sticks in a given project or take all measurements using the same measuring instrument whenever possible.

What you are seeing could be a super accurate tape on the saw, and an inaccurate check measurement, or a bad tape on the saw and an accurate check measurement, or inaccuracies in both. All that can really be concluded from what you've reported is that the two (or three) measuring devices involved don't agree with each other.

[Russ Filtz]

I never rely on the TS tape anyway. Measure each cut at the blade tooth, perpendicular to the fence with a good metal rule.

[Ken Higginbotham]

I never rely on the TS tape anyway. Measure each cut at the blade tooth, perpendicular to the fence with a good metal rule.

I was going to say that all I ever use that rule for was rough cutting anyway where +-16th isn't an issue - :confused:

[Paul Ryan]

Craig,

I Just sold my steel city saw. I had it for a year and really liked the saw. The only complaint I had was the same as what you are going through. I had to recalibrate so to say, the sight glass on the fence with the tape about 3 times a year. It seemed to change with weather temperature. I called SC about that and they didn't seem to care, he said yup I can see how that could effect it. It wasn't that big of a deal. But every now and then I would check it an most of the time it was on. But spring, summer, fall, would effect it.

[Mike Henderson]

I never rely on the TS tape anyway. Measure each cut at the blade tooth, perpendicular to the fence with a good metal rule.
Me too. The only thing I use the rule for is to change the cut. So if I want to adjust a cut by 1/8" I'll move the fence 1/8" using the rule. But everything else is measured from the saw tooth to the fence.

Mike

[Bill White]

:eek:I trust my fence tape like I trust my ex wife.
Bill

[Craig Johnson]

Ok.
Thanks guys.
I also have done the same thing up to this point. I would double check with a different measuring device from the fence to the blade.
I was hoping I would not have to do that but if thats always going to be a concern I will continue (especially with expensive stock).

[Matt Meiser]

If its a plastic tape its possible to stretch it a little as its applied. My old saw's scale was inaccurate an the innacuracy increased as I went further. On my "new" saw, I didn't install my rails in the factory location so that I got more right-of-blade cut since I never use the fence left-of-blade and used a Starret tape which seems much more reliable. It was relatively inexpensive as well.

[Steve Clardy]

I went through 2 of the vinyl stick on tapes on my acqu square fence.

Vinyl tapes change with the weather.


I got one of Kreg's metal stick on tapes and its stays consistent

[Bruce Page]

Maybe I’m too trusting but I never double check the fence position relative to the blade, but this post made me wonder… I just went out and checked my Unisaw’s 50” Biesemeyer fence tape and it’s still dead on after 10 years.

[Joel Earl]

I did too - Unifence dead on still to this day but I admit I was a wee bit nervous after this thread since I never once have checked it since day #1. :o

[John Thompson]

I replaced the one on a PM.. Uni-saw and now Steel City with a Starrett metal self-adhesive tape. The vinyl does just what has been metioned here. The Starretts are available for about $6 give or take.

With that said.. I glide the fence into position using the tape. I check to make sure the curson didn't get bumped as I run some heavy.. long stock... then I have a framing square that has been trued. I under no circumstances would trust the measurements on a framing square. So I added a metal Starret tape over the original numbers on it.

So.. fence to get it there.. double check distance from teeth to fence with a framing square that should come up the same and... if making more than one lenght duplication... go to the story stick as mentioned. As Tom Veatch mentioned.. how can you insure that even a tape made by one company at different times are exact. You can't IMO...

But... if duplicating a lenght... you can always trust a story stick.

Sarge..

[Chip Lindley]

Remember that plastic stretches, lesser printing processes can induce error, contact adhesive can cause creep, and any scale can suffer from parallax error when viewed from an angle other than 90 degrees. All these may certainly affect a TS scale's reading. But the coefficient of expansion of securely bolted steel should never cause any gross error, as long as the user has set up the fence properly to begin with.

My first-ever TS was a '70s Crapsman with an absolutely unusable fence. Every single measurement had to be made between the blade tooth and fence, several times for each cut! What a POS! I am turned off from measuring in this respect, ForEver!

When I graduated to an old Rockwell Model 10 CS, I installed an *original* JetLock fence from a 1947 Unisaw, with the scale stamped on the tube. Once the fence was set up, I could set the width of cut, lock the fence and be within 1/64" inch every time (with only a pointer, no scale magnifier), and only 1/16" increments marked on the tube.

Now, on a PM66 with PM's Biese/clone fence, the steel scale glued to the front rail keeps it's accuracy just fine. Keyword is *steel* scale. Starrett metal self-adhesive tapes are worth the Bucks if you must retro-fit! The instructions strongly suggest that the self-adhesive not be relied on to hold the tape securely. 3M High Strength spray adhesive was recommended to further attach the scale for permanency, in old Biesemeyer instructions.

[Frank Drew]

Any saw with a tape rule for fence-setting needs an adjustable cursor to fine tune the measurement, something Biesemeyer popularized. After I got my Biesemeyer set up correctly and the cursor locked down, I never ever again needed to measure from the blade to the fence for each setting since it would have been a waste of time (or at least totally unnecessary), that's how dead-on accurate the thing was, in addition to being extremely easy to use with a fine line cursor directly over the tape (i.e. no parallax error).

I'd be amazed, frankly, if anyone with a Biesemeyer or equivalent still measures from the blade to the fence. I mean, what's the point? If something is off, adjust the cursor and tighten the screws; if your last, say, 1,000 setups have all been precise when you double checked with another rule, just how much evidence do you need?

[Chris Padilla]

I have an Incra fence. I set it the first time I got the fence 6 years ago. I check it every once in a while when I'm getting anal about a cut...still dead nuts on. :)

[Joe Jensen]

I never rely on the TS tape anyway. Measure each cut at the blade tooth, perpendicular to the fence with a good metal rule.

Is this with a good ridgid fence system like a Biesemeyer or a conractor saw style? No longer having to measure the blade to fence for every setting was the best benefit I received from moving to a cabinet saw with a great fence.

[Bruce Page]

Is this with a good ridgid fence system like a Biesemeyer or a conractor saw style? No longer having to measure the blade to fence for every setting was the best benefit I received from moving to a cabinet saw with a great fence.

I agree.

I used to have to do that with my old Craftsman TS.:(

I'm sure glad that I don't have to do that anymore. :)

[Dave Lehnert]

I have a JET cabinet saw and trust the tape 100%.

[Jim Heffner]

I think you are getting worried over a minor thing with the saw. The adhesive rule is really there for merely a rough measurement, more than
a real accurate one. If really need an accurate measurement...use a steel
rule not a tape of any kind. Tape measures are for rough cutting,like carpenters do, not woodworkers! Don't blame the saw for inaccuracies
in a stick on tape rule!

[Frank Drew]

Jim,

Respectfully, I completely disagree; the implication of your post is that you think the previous six posters haven't done accurate work, or don't know the meaning of the term.

[Craig Johnson]

Update-
I adjusted the adjustable cursor yesterday and I think I got her right on.
I also ordered a 36" straight edge to check the longer measurements since I dont have one now.
I will do some test cuts and see if all is good.

[Frank Drew]

I didn't mean to imply that there's never a reason to check your cut; different blades can have different amounts of set creating small but perhaps significant differences. So double check your saw's cursor/tape when you change blades. After that, however, the reading should be the reading.

[Bruce Page]

Jim,

Respectfully, I completely disagree; the implication of your post is that you think the previous six posters haven't done accurate work, or don't know the meaning of the term.

I agree. I’m about as anal as they come and I have never been disappointed with the Biesemeyer rule on my Unisaw. I took great care when setting up my new Uni ten years ago or so.

Jim, I’m an ex-machinist and have precision Starrett rules up to 48”. I can easily split .010 or less, by eye. (These days I might have to put on my Optivisors, but that’s a different story) :rolleyes:

[george wilson]

Somewhere I found out that government standards for a 6' tape measure is for it to be within 3/16" in 6'. Maybe someone can check this out?

[Frank Drew]

That might or might not be true, George, but it doesn't mean that manufacturers of good quality stick-down tapes adhere to such a casual standard.

[Craig Johnson]

I guess I am in the camp with you guys.
I want accurate cuts. Period.
If I set the fence at 12 inches then thats what I expect. Not 11 11/16ths.
I expect very very close cuts to that if not spot on.

[george wilson]

Frank,I have never had any tape measure of any price that wasn't pretty accurate. If I had one,I'd not use it. that's just what I read somewhere,and can't remember where.Maybe someone else knows about this.

I never use the built in rule(my saw doesn't have a tape,it's from 1964,it has a stamped in graduation.). I measure directly like most others seem to. Different thickness blades would affect any tape,anyway.I just don't trust them.

[Frank Drew]

Different thickness blades would affect any tape,anyway.

Not necessarily; no matter how thick the blade it still has to fit up against the arbor flange, so any blade plate would be the same distance to the fence, the only variable being the set or side projection of the teeth.

Those Powermatic and Unisaw fences with the bogus stamped-on markings were exactly what the newer fences improved on so much; I always measured from a tooth when I had the original fence on my Powermatic, but getting a Biesemeyer changed all that.

But everybody should do what they're comfortable with and have time for.

[I'm not a salesman for Biesemeyer, I just think they deserve a Nobel Prize for Most Improved Version of a Common Item :D.]