what wood for flower beds/pots

[Zahid Naqvi]

I was thinking about making a few "trough" style flower beds to plant some flowers. Not having done something along this line I figured I'd ask about lumber choices. Cedar comes to mind but it is rather expensive for use as a flower pot. I was thinking pressure treated fencing lumber, but I think it has some mild poison in it to ward off bugs, which might be harmful for plants.

Or should I just go at it with your basic white pine and just dump the whole thing in 4-5 yrs if the wood rots by that time.

[Prashun Patel]

Any kind of wood isn't a good choice for planters coming in direct contact with soil. PT will harm the roots. Anything else will rot unless treated, which makes it bad for the roots. If it were me, I'd make a box sized to fit a plastic or terra cotta or metal window box. You can put yr organic material inside there.

I guess you COULD make a plastic liner for the box, but potting them individually will be better for the plants and more modular anyway...

[Alex Shanku]

Cypress is fairly cheap and holds up pretty well out of doors.

[Marty Paulus]

I have seen a home improvement show that used a pond liner in box. From there I don't think it matters what type of wood is used.

[Eric Roberge]

I thought they stopped using the pesticide (poison) in PT wood and moved to some earth friendly coating.:confused:

How about composite decking material? It comes in several different colors. Short of that, I would do cedar.
Doesn't fir hold up well outside?

[David Keller NC]

Zahid - I have some specialized knowledge in this area as a result of growing bonsai trees. In the early stages of development, the starter trees are often grown in a wooden box as the root mass is gradually reduced from field-grown to bonsai pot.

First thought is that if you make these out of white pine and directly put soil in them, you'll be throwing them out by the 2nd growing season, not 4-5 years. It's rather incredible how fast wood will rot in contact with soil, even sterile potting soil.

If you want them to last, then heart cypress, (and it must be the heart - the sapwood will rot very quickly), eastern red cedar, or the ultimate, northern white cedar or atlantic white cedar are the woods to use. Western red cedar will rot very quickly in contact with soil, whether finished or not.

In regards to PT wood, you're actually OK with that so long as you're not growing food plants, like tomatos or cucumbers. Today's pressure-treated wood no longer contains arsenic, but it still contains copper, and in some cases chromium, niehter of which are all that good for you when concentrated by the fruits of a plant. However, the copper concentration is low enough that it will permit annual-type flowers to grow, and the PT will last about as long as eastern red cedar or cypress in ground contact - probably about 5 years or so, depending one whether they're refinished occasionally.

For an inside finish, the toughest is epoxy, followed by a marine varnish. The outside can simply be painted with any good exterior latex paint.

[Joe Mioux]

I am in the greenhouse business.

traditionally, Cedar, cypress and Redwood were the species of choice for both old glass greenhouses and greenhouse benches.

All will last a really long time.

We had an old Cypress greenhouse door that laid in the grass for at least 25 years, prior to that it was in use from 1914 until 1965.

The door was true straight and not rotted.

joe

[Zahid Naqvi]

thanks David, I am not thinking paint at this time, just need some planters for outdoors. PT lumber sounds like the way to go.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Yep, thjat's your best bet. I have built hundreds of them over the years and PT pine holds up better these days than Cedar or Redwood IF the pine is SYP as it is here in the south. Direct contact with dirt will rot both Cedar and Redwood faster than SYP because they are both much softer and will more readily accept moisture.

I have lined the outside of several PT pine boxes with Cedar ...works well for looks and leaves the SYP for the tough stuff inside the box. On the example below, I even set some copper tubing into the flor of the boxes to aid in draining them to the ground.

[Myk Rian]

My grandfather built and ran a greenhouse, then my uncles took it over. The beds were cement base with cedar edges. I don't remember seeing any of them rotted.
They would even fill them with dirt, fire up the boiler, and send steam into them to sterilize the dirt.

[Cody Colston]

Zahid,

Redwood, Eastern Red Cedar and Cypress are domestic woods that will last well outdoors. However, none of them will last long in direct contact with soil. You would be pretty much wasting your time and would have a rotten mess to dispose of after the first season.

I'd suggest you use plastic box liners inside your planter boxes like this: http://www.amazon.com/Poly-Pro-Flower-Box-Liner-inch/dp/B0009IP4BS

I'm pretty sure you can find them at the Box Store garden centers, too.

[Bob Rufener]

Zahid, I built a flower box about 30 years ago and it still looks good. I did use cedar but you could use something else. I had a galvanized sheet metal box made with pipe for drainage to set in the box. It has worked very well as it allows the soil to drain and it protects the wood from long time exposure to moisture. My local HVAC did it for a relatively reasonable price. Something you might consider.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

I was thinking about making a few "trough" style flower beds to plant some flowers
Believe it or not, the best place I found to buy the materials to make trough style planeter boxes is - Lowes.

They have cedar dog eared fence pieces - ~ 5" wide & 6' long for a couple of bucks each.
They stock them outside in the garden area with the stones and rocks, not inside with the lumber & pre made sections.

I made a few of them - maybe 3(?) years ago using simple butt joints, some Titebond II and a few 18 ga brads.
Slapped a couple coats of spar varnish on them & they looked great.

If you want/feel the need for keeping the soil away from the inside, just make them slightly larger than one of those plastic water troughs used to hang pre-pasted wallpaper.

I really doubt you'll need it though.
I made a cedar trough planter for the front porch out of 2" thick rough cedar stock that I left rough, well over 25 years ago.
It was scrap left over from the deck.
I nailed the butt joints w/spiral decking nails and filled it with potting soil.
Every few years the joints open up a bit, and I whack them back tight w/a 4# sledge.


Doesn't fir hold up well outside?
I used Doug fir around the outside of the deck I built in 1986 as a skirt. It was well up from the ground.
Other than a mist of Thompson's water seal on it right after I put it up, I did nothng else to it.
When the deck was removed in 2002, there was no sign of any rot.
The only protection it had from the weather was the decking up above it.
This isn't a definitive answer by any means, just my experience using it outside & untreated in any way.

[Craig Moulton]

I use PT wood that's separated from the dirt by a plastic liner (Painter's drop cloth). The only place that gets wetted is the drain holes, and in the future I'll bore largish holes for them and insert a section of PVC pipe that I can press through the liner for a good seal.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Rich, I will check out Lowes for the cedar fencing on my way back from work. If I can find something similar it would be the best option, since cedar is recommended by many.

[Chris Padilla]

Zahid,

How about the "milk jug" (plastic) lumber? They even make it look like pine or redwood from 10' feet away. As you well know, it'll last forever. :)

I've used this around my pool and as ground dividers in sections of my yard. It is kinda spendy, however. The borg likely has it.

[Dan Karachio]

Rich, thanks so much for the tip. You saved me a boat load of money. I am building my wife a sort of garden bench/storage box with cedar. The sides will have a panel made from vertical cedar slats. After reading your post I went to Lowes today and bought about 12 of those fence pieces for 1.69 each! I planed them (boy were they rough), jointed, ripped and cut about 60 pieces (2.25" x 18"). I have nice red cedar for the frame and top and I think its lighter color with some interesting knots will be a nice contrast.

[Kevin L. Pauba]

Why not PVC -- Azek, etc.?

[Ryan Griffey]

Rich, thanks so much for the tip. You saved me a boat load of money. I am building my wife a sort of garden bench/storage box with cedar. The sides will have a panel made from vertical cedar slats. After reading your post I went to Lowes today and bought about 12 of those fence pieces for 1.69 each! I planed them (boy were they rough), jointed, ripped and cut about 60 pieces (2.25" x 18"). I have nice red cedar for the frame and top and I think its lighter color with some interesting knots will be a nice contrast.

The stuff at Lowes/HD tends to have a lot of sapwood in it. Which doesn't last long in the outdoors.

If you can't get some nice thick cedar you can line the inside of the box with the PT and fasten the cedar to the outside. A top rail will hide the PT. For planter boxes I make sure there is good spacing in the bottom for drainage and line it with weed fabric.

[Joe Mioux]

My grandfather built and ran a greenhouse, then my uncles took it over. The beds were cement base with cedar edges. I don't remember seeing any of them rotted.
They would even fill them with dirt, fire up the boiler, and send steam into them to sterilize the dirt.

those were raised cut flower beds.

[Dan Karachio]

The stuff at Lowes/HD tends to have a lot of sapwood in it. Which doesn't last long in the outdoors.


Thanks Ryan. Point well taken. My box is no heirloom type project and will not contain dirt and be under a covered porch and sealed. I was just looking for some cheap cedar and this was about as cheap as I could ask for.

[Jim Becker]

Zahid, while it's counter to my love of wood, I switched to using "manufactured" materials ("Trex" or similar) for holding back the raised beds in our veggie garden. Even cedar would only last a few years with ground contact. I'd likely use it for planters, too. If I'm remembering correctly, there is at least one outfit that offers this material in "dimensional" configurations...I think they are based out of Plymouth Meeting, PA. Tom Henry, I think, posted about them in a thread in the last year or so.