Raised Panels and Power Feed

[William M Johnson]

I have been making quite a few raised panels for doors and have a couple of questions. My equipment is a Shop Fox Shaper, Power Feed and Freud cutters.

1. Do you make the cut in the panel in one pass or multiple?

2. Do you use a power feed for the panels?

3. What is the smallest size panel you would use the feeder on?

I have made about 50 before getting the power feed and to say that the 5" cutter swinging around in the open makes me uncomfortable is an understatement.

Probably should have asked these questions about 50 panels ago, but just recently found you.

Thanks
Bill

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Bill, for most panels I use two passes.

I don't think I've ever made panels that were narrower than 6 inches and that's been just fine with the feeder.

Regards, Rod.

[David DeCristoforo]

There are some "subtleties". For example, if you run your panels "face down, the feeder can tip the panel on take up and exit due to the fact that the edges have been undercut by the panel raiser. If you run face up, the cutter is above the stock so the feeder must be positioned fairly far from the fence. These factors must be considered when trying to determine how small a panel can be safely run. The number of passes is dependent only on your machines capability and the condition of your tooling. With enough power and sharp cutter, there is no reason to make more than one pass.

[Chip Lindley]

Feeders take all the *thrill* out of making raised panels on a big shaper!! But, I am not really an *adreneline junky* anyhow! I still mill face up, because that is the way I am most familiar with! I always use back-cutters to recess 3/4" panels in 3/4" rails/stiles. The table opening is too small for 5-1/2" or 6" dia. RPCs anyhow! With 3hp or 5hp shapers and sharp cutters, one pass works fine for me.

But, there is still a *thrill* in raising cathedral-style arched-top panels since PFs are not of much use with these. I use an oak clamping jig with good handholds, to raise the arched panels by hand. Not much call for this style nowdays, but you never know!!

[William M Johnson]

Having never done it before I just plunged in and did them in one pass by hand, including the back cutting. I did it this way because of the bearing between the cutter and backcutter limited the depth of cut. The fences were mostly in the way.

I think I will try a few with the power feed using the fence as the stop instead of the bushing. Sure makes a lot of noise and sawdust.

I think my cutter is 4" - 5" in diameter. Seem like a long way to span with the fence and the PF. I wonder if it will "tip in" and catch the outfeed fence?

Bill

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, make a single piece fence with a cutout for the cutter.

That way the stock is continuously supported.......Rod.

P.S. You can purchase commercial items such as Aigner make for fences.

You can also make table insert rings for your shaper to close up the gap between the table opening and the cutter. I make mine out of HDPE with some leveling screws in tapped holes.

[David DeCristoforo]

"You can purchase...Aigner...fences...."

NOOOOO!!!! Those are like twelve hundred bucks. What a complete wast of dough. You can easily make a "zero clearance" fence face from a strip of MDF (one of the few things the stuff is good for) for about a nickel.

OK, I guess this is "slightly" opinionated but come on, you can't possibly have that much money you can't think of anything to do with! If you do, I can give you lots of ideas.....

[William M Johnson]

Are you telling me that the cardboard fence that came with the machine is not sacred and can be modified:eek:

If you were making a zero clearance insert for said shaper, would you mount a piece of wood to the infeed fence then slide it into the cutter, thereby making the shape? Seems like it would splinter pretty bad. I guess you would do this twice and flip one to the other side.

Bill

[David DeCristoforo]

My "stock" fences usually end up "out behind the shed". I make my fences out of stacked plywood strips like this:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=103614&d=1229286270

The faces are always "sacrificial". You punch the cutter through by clamping one end and slowly advancing the other side into the cutter in an arc. It's easier and safer than it sounds and once you have done it once or twice you will never give it another thought.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have made a one piece fence out of plastic for face up panel raising, but before that I screwed a 1/4" x 3/4" piece of aluminum bar stock on the flat to the bottom of both fences. That way the piece can not tip into the cutter if you make sure it is held down. I have done raised edge rosettes with this setup and a holder for the rosettes. Those are 3 1/2" square, and it was not uncomfortable.

[Larry Edgerton]

If you were making a zero clearance insert for said shaper, would you mount a piece of wood to the infeed fence then slide it into the cutter, thereby making the shape? Seems like it would splinter pretty bad. I guess you would do this twice and flip one to the other side.

Bill

No, that doesn't work. Figure out exactly where you want the cutter to protrude from the fence and cut out the profile, minus the shaft width, and grind away the bevel, especially on the side the cutter will be exiting the fence. As you expected it will blow out bad on that side and the cutter was not meant to cut that way anyway.

Actually if I had not made one out of a expensive piece of plastic I would stick with the aluminum add-on guide I outlined above. It worked just as well and was much easier to make.

[Rod Sheridan]

"You can purchase...Aigner...fences...."

NOOOOO!!!! Those are like twelve hundred bucks. What a complete wast of dough. You can easily make a "zero clearance" fence face from a strip of MDF (one of the few things the stuff is good for) for about a nickel.

OK, I guess this is "slightly" opinionated but come on, you can't possibly have that much money you can't think of anything to do with! If you do, I can give you lots of ideas.....

David, you may have noticed the first line in my post?

I make shop made fences..........However some people like shiny new stuff:D.

Regards, Rod.

[Roger Barlow]

I use a 5hp delta, panels face up, one pass (tangtung freeborn cutters). If the wood is being unforgiving (read cutter is getting dull), I'll hog cut then take a 1/32 finish cut. I have a rub bearing or rub spacer under the cutter so I can run very narrow panels, and I use the feeder for all panel raising, and most every other shaper operation. Yeah, 6" spinning cutterheads and hands don't mix at all.

[Steve Clardy]

I make a 1-piece fence with cut out for cutter. [Bandsaw]

I power feed. Smallest width, probably 5"

I run face up. Always have. Just got started that way and continue to do so.

I make 2 passes. I do not adjust the fence out to do this. I simply start the work piece away from the fence about a 1/4" and let the feeder pull it through, holding on to the end of the panel to keep it halfway straight through the cut.
Second pass is against the fence.

[Peter Quinn]

Wow, lots of interesting ways to raise panels here. That Aigner fence is the best thing I have ever seen, hands down the most versatile and safe setup for the commercial production shop. Just perfect. Except the price is just harsh. You have to be making a hell of a lot of panels of different sorts to justify that cost. And for a few bucks, you can come pretty darn close.

Anyway, I use a shop made hood which is basically a piece of mdf clamped to the table with a cut out to slip around the spindle, total opening is about 2", with a hood built over the top to protect the hands and collect the chips. i have been using one at work for years, just made one this weekend for the home shop, works great. You have to try really hard to put your hands in the cutter with this setup. I have used a solid fence backed into the cutter, but by the time you back a 1/4" fence into a cutter with a 1/4" spacer between a panel raiser and a back cutter, you have so little fence at the center for the tongue to ride on that it is not worth the effort to me.

[David DeCristoforo]

I usually use 3/4" material for the fence face and hollow the back at the spindle if needed for cutter projection (not to scale!):

114034

This way the fence is pretty rigid but it's only a quarter or three eights thick right at the spindle so it can move back enough.

PS Oh and Peter... you are forgiven for buying an Aigner fence. They really are pretty slick and I can understand being tempted... but the price... my god... the price! I can buy a lot of 6" X 36" pieces of 3/4" MDF for that kind of dough!

[Steve Clardy]

I usually use 3/4" material for the fence face and hollow the back at the spindle if needed for cutter projection (not to scale!):

114034

This way the fence is pretty rigid but it's only a quarter or three eights thick right at the spindle so it can move back enough.

Ditto. I do the same

[Chip Lindley]

IF a rub bearing is used with a panel-raising cutter, any fence has negligible utility! It's only real purpose is to guide the work in a general direction. The rub bearing does all the real guiding! The fence opening then serves to channel chips toward the DC hood!

In making cathedral-style panels, NO fence can be used. The rub bearing does all the work! If one can do arched-panels by hand, then square panels will be a piece of cake! But, I do use power feeders for convenience and a margin of safety. They combat fatigue and assure more consistent output!

[J.R. Rutter]

I now have some dedicated aluminum fences similar to the Aigner. They take multiple aluminum inserts for a continuous fence for various profiles and change out in seconds. These fences shine in production environments where the cut changes frequently and you don't have room (or time) for a pile of dedicated fences. In the past, my raised panel setup also used a strip of aluminum for the panel to ride past the cutter. I had a single fence that clamped to the stock fence using some dowels to register it. One edge had the aluminum strip attached flush to the table for panels with no back cut (reverse raised, door edges, etc.). Flip it over and the aluminum was spaced up to allow for the back cutter. The middle was simply open to allow a stack of cutters to move up and down (several profiles kept mounted). With a single cutter, you could make it stiffer by making it more like a zero clearance fence.

As for the smallest part that can run through the feeder, you can go very small with an auxiliary jig. I make throw away small panel jigs by using a piece of panel thickness scrap about 6" square. Then super glue a piece of 9" x 2" x 1/4" ply or similar to the top so that it hangs off one side about 3" and is otherwise centered on the square. The small panel fits underneath the overhanging plywood so that the end rides the fence and the long edge is backed up by the square. As it is fed, the plywood puts extra pressure on the panel, while the square keeps it from twisting. Do both ends, then feed as normal. Be willing to sacrifice a bit of rubber near the cutter and you can get pretty close.

Here is a pic of my old shaper fence setup...

[David DeCristoforo]

"Be willing to sacrifice a bit of rubber ..."

Another good point.... feeder wheels are expendable....

[Peter Quinn]

I usually use 3/4" material for the fence face and hollow the back at the spindle if needed for cutter projection (not to scale!):

114034

This way the fence is pretty rigid but it's only a quarter or three eights thick right at the spindle so it can move back enough.

PS Oh and Peter... you are forgiven for buying an Aigner fence. They really are pretty slick and I can understand being tempted... but the price... my god... the price! I can buy a lot of 6" X 36" pieces of 3/4" MDF for that kind of dough!

David, I use that same continuous fence set up for coping rails on passage doors and have used it for some very narrow panels but have had issues with a few of my cutters when trying to squeeze out a 1/2" or 5/8" panel tongue just not having enough clearance for any material at all at the apex of the spindle. Probably not an issue for cabinet door panels with 3/8" tongues. Am I doing something wrong there or missing something? I wind up with the spindle spacers rubbing on the back of the fence and burning. I tend to go for the easiest possible set up, so for me the hood with the two inch slot in the base plate covers 90% of my needs and 100% of the cutter.

Oh, I didn't mean to suggest I had BOUGHT an Aigner fence. I looked at them, I studied them, I LOVE them, I drooled on one once, but good god man, I ain't made of money!:D And really, do they do a better job? Not so much. Maybe like J.R. said real quick for a custom production shop with tons of different panels in production, but not for my little home spun shop, and if I asked my boss to spring for a $1400 fence at work I think he would slap me when he stopped laughing. It is way cheaper to pay me to make fence plates and bases as needed for each job than to buy one fence once that does it all. At least in any given month.

[David DeCristoforo]

"I ...have had issues...trying to squeeze out a 1/2" or 5/8" panel tongue..."

That's like for when you want to use an applied bolection moulding or something? There are times when you can't escape having to use a split fence. But you can still make the "ZC" face and then just cut it out at the spindle. You still get pretty good support. The Aigner fence will present the same problem but you don't want to go hacking up a $1,200 fence face!

[J.R. Rutter]

Seems like almost all of the spindle spacers that I have are about 1 cm thick radially. For squeezing a deeper cut out of raised panel cutters, I have some thinner wall spacers - more like 3/16". I think that I got them from Freeborn of Schmidt years ago. Maybe you could even get a custom spacer made by a machine shop that was more like 1/8 or 3/32 wall thickness?

[Richard McComas]

Of course you could always make your own Aigner type fence.

http://www.woodweb.com/forum_fdse_files/swmf/595060.html

[Larry Edgerton]

David, I use that same continuous fence set up for coping rails on passage doors and have used it for some very narrow panels but have had issues with a few of my cutters when trying to squeeze out a 1/2" or 5/8" panel tongue just not having enough clearance for any material at all at the apex of the spindle. Probably not an issue for cabinet door panels with 3/8" tongues. Am I doing something wrong there or missing something? I wind up with the spindle spacers rubbing on the back of the fence and burning. I tend to go for the easiest possible set up, so for me the hood with the two inch slot in the base plate covers 90% of my needs and 100% of the cutter.

Oh, I didn't mean to suggest I had BOUGHT an Aigner fence. I looked at them, I studied them, I LOVE them, I drooled on one once, but good god man, I ain't made of money!:D And really, do they do a better job? Not so much. Maybe like J.R. said real quick for a custom production shop with tons of different panels in production, but not for my little home spun shop, and if I asked my boss to spring for a $1400 fence at work I think he would slap me when he stopped laughing. It is way cheaper to pay me to make fence plates and bases as needed for each job than to buy one fence once that does it all. At least in any given month.

This is why I started using Aluminum bar stock. You can cut it to about an 1/8 at the spindle and as long as it is supported, screwed to the bottom of the seperate fences, it will remain stiff, where when a wood, or a plastic fence gets to thin it can bend into the cutter in the case of a bite. I have my plastic one peice machined out for the spindle like Daves, but I am going to add a piece of aluminum on the bottom like JR's home brew, and steal JR's idea for a flip fence, back cut and no back cut.

Thanks JR! http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

I like the fence I have machined out of high molecular whatever plastic, but I have a problem with static. Any ideas how to stop the static. I have to blow the static buildup of small chips off ever pass of so. Maybe ground the aluminum I am going to install to the shaper chassis?

[Larry Edgerton]

Oh ya, another thing on small panels.....

I like drawer fronts with raised panels, and the top panel often has a narrow flat, as little as 3/4". What I do in this case is glue up real wide boards, say 20" or whatever works, cut them to length, run the ends right away on the shaper before they start to bow, then rip them to width and do the long sides. I get at least the top two, and sometimes all three drawers if the rails and styles are wide.

By the way, most of my kitchens have few if any doors, mostly drawers so this is just what works for me.