gloat and a question

[Maria Alvarado]

Hi folks,
I thought yesterday that I had scored leyland cypress (because of leaves), but it seems more likely that what I have is southern red cedar. My wood spy network is working and told me of fresh cut logs in front of a house.
I scored these:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=152&pictureid=1635

Very aromatic, I may have to go get the rest.
Anyway, the edge and heartwood was so cool that I had to try an endgrain bowl. The bark gave me fits and finally I just peeled it of (very easy), but then the inner layer just shredded so I had to clean that up with a knife. Here it is so far (it's thinner than the edge makes it appear). Not sanded yet.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=152&pictureid=1636
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=152&pictureid=1637
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=152&pictureid=1638

So my question is about finish. I've heard that the natural oils can eat degrade some finishes and I'd like to preserve the smell and the color. Any recommendations?
Thanks

[Rob Mathis]

Maria that is going to be a really nice looking bowl!

Wow!

[alex carey]

I love cedar and that stuff looks top notch. Great score.

[robert hainstock]

Aromatic red cedar if left unfinished will retain its aroma for some time, but will eventually fade both in color and intensity. I hopee someone knows of away around that, but I've never heard of one. beautigul gloat, good luck with it. be sure to anchorseal the ends. :):)
Bob

[Bernie Weishapl]

Congrats on some great looking wood. The bowl it is going to be beautiful. If you finish it you will not preserve the smell. Finishing it will make the color last longer but it to will change with time. Make sure as Robert said to anchorseal those logs because they will crack big time. I got a load of cedar and forgot to seal the end of one log. I had to cut off about 6 to 7 inches to get to good wood.

[Jarrod McGehee]

Maria that's a beautiful bowl and it looks great. Nice gloat and good luck keeping the smell and color.

[Don Carter]

Maria:
That looks like a beautiful flower! Love the colors and the work that you did! Looking forward to the finished product. I have access to a lot of this wood, but I have yet to turn any. Let us know how it "turns" out.

All the best.

Don

[Kaptan J.W. Meek]

I have alot of that cedar down here in Texas.. I knew right away what it was.. I LOVE THE LIGHT SHADE!!
Problem I've had with this cedar is cracks. It dries and it cracks. I haven't turned anything from it that didn't crack. I turned some "acorns" to put in my clothes drawers to keep bugs out. (thats what you do, when you live out in the sticks.) Anyway, the acorns , about the size of an egg, cracked and split all over. I've oiled 'em, poly'd 'em, lacquerd 'em, and it doesn't seem to matter.. they crack. Good luck with it.

[Bill Bolen]

Maria the only way I have found to keep the aroma is to well....do nothing. Any finish will seal the smell in even mineral oil will retard it. Finish(poly) works well to keep the color and protect that soft wood but again you will loose the aroma. As for cracking....it will crack , just the nature of the beast. Enjoy it, I do. Love your end grain bowl BTW! That flower shape is cool...Bill...

[Steve Schlumpf]

Maria - love the bowl! Great form, wonderful colors and I really like the natural edge! I honestly do not know of a finish that can preserve the wood and also allow the smell to come through. I love the smell of cedar but find any finish I have used kills it! I have used different danish oils and also various brands of poly and they all are surface finishes which block the natural odor of the wood. If you find something that works for you - be sure to pass it on as we would all love to know what it is!

Also, I agree with Bob - make sure you coat the ends of your cedar logs with anchorseal or something real soon because once it starts checking - you may lose a lot of wood!

Nice work on this - shows a lot of imagination!

[Bill Bulloch]

I went to a frends house today and cut down a Cedar Tree. It was small in hight, but I got ten logs from it; from at the bottom 15" diameter to at the top about 8". It was a live tree, but the wood seemed dry. I put my moisture meter to it and it was in the 7 to 10 percent range. Is this normal for Red Cedar?

I had not tought about doing an end grain bowl with it, but really like the way yours turned out. One question: How are you treating the PIT? I know for sure it is going to crack big time. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle the PIT in end grain bowls, especially cedar?

[Allen Neighbors]

Here's an idea... but I can't guarantee it... to maybe retain the color for a longer time: (no help on the smell)
There is a rattle-can Lacquer that you can purchase in photography supply stores and camera shops. It is formulated for spraying color photographs, to keep them from fading when exposed to light for long periods of time, by reducing the penetration of UV radiation. I'm not sure if it will work on wood, cedar in particular, but it might. Has anyone tried it?
BTW. That is shaping up to be a beautiful bowl... well done.
As far as the pith is concerned, I would try to make the bottom, with or without a foot, somewhat thinner than the sides (to reduce the stresses on the rest of the bowl), and then watch it closely... when a small crack appears in the pith, hit it with a dose of thinned CA (thin with Acetone). I would apply it thusly: Apply a shot of CA, and wipe it off, letting what stays in the crack to remain. Let that set for a few secs, and then do it again. Wiping it off the outside will make it easier to buff out the minor damage it might do to the bottom finish, but the CA should stop the cracking.
Cedar is very prone to cracking while sanding, if you allow it to get too hot. Use light pressure when sanding, allowing the sandpaper the time it takes for it to do the job it is designed to do. I have a hard time doing that, myself, but it's supposedly the best way to keep the heat checking down. Hope this helps somebody out. :)

[curtis rosche]

since that wood is still wet, you should play with making paperthin bowls from endgrain, then while they are wet, fold them around and make them look even more like flowers. nice score

[Dean Thomas]

Allen has the right idea, I think, and the others have told you true. Once you have covered the wood in finish, the aroma goes away. :(

HOWEVER, if you preserve the chips you made while making this bowl (and others from the rest of the wood!!) you can create a little potpourri with a nice holey lid, maybe even out of cedar, and put some of the chips in there.

Also, our friends at Woodcraft have cans of oil of cedar. GREAT stuff that can be used to help replenish the scent. I've not found it useful for finishing, but the scent is incredible. I think it was originally produced for wiping down cedar lined closets and chests to replenish that anti-bug quality noted so well by friend in the stix, J.W.

Lacquer has been the best I've found for preserving the color of the wood. I've thought about some of the water based lacquer, but my last experiment with the stuff raised some highly buffed grain, so I stopped and regrouped.

So far as the PITH goes, Bill has asked a legitimate question. If you've turned this green, you may well lose the pith to cracking, but if you get it sanded and well-sealed, you might not. Depends on how stable the environment is in Georgia or where ever that lovely bowl ends up. REALLY nice job. Good eye to see the lovely shape and to take advantage of it.

[Maria Alvarado]

Thanks everyone for your comments. It will be interesting to see whether this cracks or not. Being end-grain turned, it warped even while I was turning it. I thought the tailstock was out of alignment, but it was just the wood twisting as I cut (so Curtis, your idea of very thin turning would probably work quite well here). It's fairly thin, but of course the pith is dead center, not to mention all the little branchlets, so I'll have to stock up on CA glue. I guess I will try for color over aroma on the finish. Thanks for all the advice!

[alex carey]

I made some bottle stoppers out of cedar and I finished it with

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5344&filter=bowl%20finish

The smell is still pretty strong on it. It didn't change it at all...YET. It only been about 2 weeks. I won't know for sure anymore because I gave them away.

[robert hainstock]

LOML suggested after I explained your delema, (color preservation vs aroma preservation). finish the outside, and leave the inside unfinished. Just her 2C worth. :cool::)
Bob

[Tamara Brown]

Here's an idea... but I can't guarantee it... to maybe retain the color for a longer time: (no help on the smell)
There is a rattle-can Lacquer that you can purchase in photography supply stores and camera shops. It is formulated for spraying color photographs, to keep them from fading when exposed to light for long periods of time, by reducing the penetration of UV radiation. I'm not sure if it will work on wood, cedar in particular, but it might. Has anyone tried it?
. :)

Haven't tried the photo lacquer on wood but my husband has for photo props. However, you will not retain any smell from the cedar if you use it. It smells like Banana oil...also, please use it in a well ventilated area. Not good for the sinuses, lung, liver and I am sure many other body parts. It will yellow over time and it will blush when spraying if it is too cold or to much humidity. This is the oil based version, not the water based spray.

Just as the color would fade over time with exposure to UV light, the effectiveness of the UV inhibitor also diminishes over time when it is exposed to UV light. The only real way to stop colors from fading is to limit the exposure to UV light. There are some marine grade finishes like spar varnish that also have UV protection, they will last longer than photo spray. The UV protection is also limited. The varnishes need to be reapplied periodically.

Hope this helps...Good luck!

[David Christopher]

Yoy can use this as a finish and it will retain the smell


http://www.texascedaroil.com/

[Wally Dickerman]

I have a Vic Wood box made of Huon Pine from Tasmania. Huon Pine is a very fragrant wood with an odor similar to red cedar. Vic included a very small cloth bag filled with fresh Huon Pine chips. The bag is inside the box and whenever the lid is removed the very fragrant smell is just as fresh as it was over 20 years ago when I received the box in a trade with Vic. Perhaps that would work if you decide to make some boxes from that very attractive wood.

Wally

[Bob Haverstock]

Maria,

When the pith cracks and the bowl is dry, remove the pith and fill it with the instant coffee/epoxy mix. Finish turn, and people will wonder why it is not cracked.

I'm playing with cedar bowls now, I think I'll cloth bag some chips.

Bob

[Skip Spaulding]

Has anyone tried DNA with cedar? I was using microwave oven with a lot of my bowls but a lot of them warped. Many on this site use DNA, so I gave it a try, so far it seems to be working out but I haven't tried it on softer woods.

[curtis rosche]

i dont remember the turners name, but there is a famous turner who turns thin wet "goblets" and uses a very thin parting tool to make the wood warp the way they want, and make it look like a flower. i dont remember who it was though