Curly maple raised panels...bad idea?

[Michael Donahue]

Hey folks. For one of my upcoming projects I'm planning a medicine cabinet and vanity that will be either sapele or walnut with (maybe) curly maple raised panels. Do you think it's a bad idea to use curly material for panels? Will they move alot and keep the door from staying flat, especially considering the humidity and heat in the bathroom? Will the maple be hard to route with decent (Freud) router bits? Gluing up and flattening the panels shouldn't be a problem (especially with my new drum sander!) but I'm nervous about using my router on them.

One last question....if you think the curly panels won't be a problem, do you think I should bookmatch the panels or would it look alright if I just edge glued a few boards with similar grain/color?

Thanks for the tips!

[Jamie Buxton]

No, curliness should not present any stuctural problems.

However, bookmatching some kinds of curl doesn't work quite as well as one might expect it to. Let's say you have perfect fiddleback curl. That is, when you look at the board, it looks like it has bands across the board which alternate dark and light. Resaw this board, and bookmatch it. The two boards will have the dark/light bands. However, where one board is light, the other board is dark, and vice versa. That is, the bookmatching doesn't give you symmetrical curl patterns.

[Rick Gooden]

I believe that most of the curly maple is soft maple and machines very nicely. I use it quite a lot and it has always been the soft variety from my supplier.

[Rob Russell]

No, curliness should not present any stuctural problems.

However, bookmatching some kinds of curl doesn't work quite as well as one might expect it to. Let's say you have perfect fiddleback curl. That is, when you look at the board, it looks like it has bands across the board which alternate dark and light. Resaw this board, and bookmatch it. The two boards will have the dark/light bands. However, where one board is light, the other board is dark, and vice versa. That is, the bookmatching doesn't give you symmetrical curl patterns.


I'm confused :confused: !

When you bookmatch 2 pieces of wood, the pattern will be a mirror image on 1 side of the glueup vs. the other. Using fiddleback/tiger maple as an example, the light line will run all the way across the board - you're not going to have a light line that suddenly becomes a dark line. The only way that wouldn't work is if you mismatch the boards during the glueup.

Am I missing something?

= = = = = =

To the OP's question - bookmatched curly maple would make a great raised panel. IMO, a medicine cabinet is a good use for the wood because you'll be looking at it frequently.

[Frank Drew]

Intuitively, I think Jamie's right although I've never resawn a figured board and seen this for myself. The exact nature of the chatoyance, the reflective luster of figured woods, is dependent on viewing angle -- if you move a figured board in front of your viewing position, the lights and darks switch position. Similarly, bookmatching will present, in effect, the top and bottom surfaces of the same board and in this way is a bit different from a true mirror image, which just switches right for left.

Interesting question, in any case.

[john bateman]

I'm confused :confused: !

When you bookmatch 2 pieces of wood, the pattern will be a mirror image on 1 side of the glueup vs. the other. Using fiddleback/tiger maple as an example, the light line will run all the way across the board - you're not going to have a light line that suddenly becomes a dark line. The only way that wouldn't work is if you mismatch the boards during the glueup.

Am I missing something?

= = = = = =

To the OP's question - bookmatched curly maple would make a great raised panel. IMO, a medicine cabinet is a good use for the wood because you'll be looking at it frequently.

Other poster's have explained it, but here's what bookmatching curly maple looks like:
http://www.petenoon.com/Gib_LP_Classic.jpg

[Sean Hughto]

Here's one I made last weekend in curly cherry:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3630/3358738340_9e13b41ba1.jpg

It's not a problem. Indeed, panels are a great place to show off grain patterns like this. You've probably seen crotch grains used in panels too, right? Those are potentially even more likely to squirm around a bit, but the frame and the fact that the panel floats in the grooves keep everything in line.

[Chris Padilla]

I'm confused :confused: !

When you bookmatch 2 pieces of wood, the pattern will be a mirror image on 1 side of the glueup vs. the other. Using fiddleback/tiger maple as an example, the light line will run all the way across the board - you're not going to have a light line that suddenly becomes a dark line. The only way that wouldn't work is if you mismatch the boards during the glueup.

Am I missing something?

Yes, you are, Rob! It has to do with how the grain flows and how the light reacts with it. I seen it all the time with heavy curl...the bookmatches are mirrors of each other but the light doesn't reflect off of them the same way because you are looking at the "back of the curl" on one board and the "front of the curl" on the other board so the grain actually is flowing differently. Pick yourself up some heavily figured wood and resaw and you'll see this.

[Chris Padilla]

Mike, your ideas are fine and should look very nice. As you might know, figured wood can have tear-out issues due to the grain switching directions on you so making raised panels with it *might* present some issues in that respect. Just take very light cuts to sneak up to your final cut and then do a very light final cut if possible.

You might also need to use a scraper or a gooseneck scraper on figured raised panels to clean them up...or dowels, time, and lottsa elbow grease.

[David Keller NC]

Michael - One comment about using curly maple in an application like this (a bathroom). While it doesn't present a structural problem (the grooves in the rails and stiles hold the panel from warping), the constantly cycling of humidity may yield a "washboard" surface to the panel after a couple of years.

The reason is that end grain/face grain/edge grain doesn't expand and contract at the same rate, and in a curly figured board, you've all three types of grain presenting themselves at the surface. Over time, parts of the same panel will expand/contract differentially, and because the board constrains the expansion, you get inelastic crushing of the wood fibers (so it's not a completely reversible process when it dries back out again).

The result is a surface that has subtle ripples in it, following the curl. You can definitely see this on old antiques made of curly maple, and in fact it's one clue to determine whether you're looking at an antique instead of a reproduction.

I'm not saying you shouldn't use it, just be aware that may be the result long term.

[Michael Donahue]

There's ALOT of good info here folks. Thanks!

Sean, how did you cut that panel? What brand of bit/cutter did you use? That's the same panel design that I want to do and yours is great inspiration!

[Sean Hughto]

I mostly used the Lie-Nielsen brand, but some Veritas too {chuckle}.

The details are towards the bottom here (different door - same process):

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Making%20a%20frame%20and%20panel%20door.html

[Chris Padilla]

Sean,

That is really a wonderful tutorial! No tails on your tools either...at least that you showed! ;) Thanks very much for sharing.

[Craig D Peltier]

My wood supllier has 6 office doors made of curly west maple. They look smooth an very pretty. Even the frames are made of it.

[Joe Jensen]

I'm confused :confused: !

When you bookmatch 2 pieces of wood, the pattern will be a mirror image on 1 side of the glueup vs. the other. Using fiddleback/tiger maple as an example, the light line will run all the way across the board - you're not going to have a light line that suddenly becomes a dark line. The only way that wouldn't work is if you mismatch the boards during the glueup.

Am I missing something?

= = = = = =

To the OP's question - bookmatched curly maple would make a great raised panel. IMO, a medicine cabinet is a good use for the wood because you'll be looking at it frequently.

You will have a light line that becomes dark at the glue line at some light angles. The wood property is Chatoyance. When wood has chatoyance, light reflects differently at different angles. When you book match, the grain for the two boards is at different angles. Some people ruin chatoyance by using oil on the wood to "make the grain pop". What this does is soak oil into the part of the grain that has chatoyance. If you do this, then you will be ok, but you will have ruined that chatoyance and that's what makes curly figure so amazing. Here is a pic of some jewelry boxes I make with amazing curly maple. I used french polish on these which enhances chatoyance. In this pic you can see that for part of the top, the chatoyance follows across the glue line, but for at least 1/2, the chatoyance flips. If I changed the angle I took the pic at, the god and bad match areas would change. In the second pic, look at the end panel. It is perfectly book matched, but the chatoyance flips from light to dark with the angle of light.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/_VIV4394.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/_VIV4402.jpg

[Chris Padilla]

Spectacular, Joe! :)

[Lee Schierer]

Will the maple be hard to route with decent (Freud) router bits? Gluing up and flattening the panels shouldn't be a problem (especially with my new drum sander!) but I'm nervous about using my router on them.

If you are concerned about tearout from your router you can cut very nice raised panels on a TS without tearout. I have a technique I used described on my web site.Raised Panels on a TS (http://www.home.earthlink.net/~us71na/raisedpanel.html)