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View Full Version : HELP - Need Advice Installing HW Flooring



Andy Pedler
03-19-2009, 12:31 AM
I'm a few weeks away from starting my biggest home improvement project yet...we're going to redo our whole kitchen. One of the big jobs is going to be putting in a new hardwood floor. I haven't installed hardwood in the past so it is new to me. I have a few questions and I'm hoping the experts here can help out. My cluelessness in this area is probably going to be obvious by the questions. :rolleyes:

1. Once I've torn out the tile and backer board down to the subfloor, what do I need to do to prep the subfloor and get it flat enough for the HW? I've read various web sites that suggest renting a large sander and using it to prep the floor. Any advice?

2. How do you know when the floor is flat enough? Is there any reason I'd need to use a floor leveling compound to help get a flat subfloor?

3. The flooring place suggested that I only need a vapor barrier layer of 15 lb roofing felt paper between the floor and subfloor. I have seen laminates installed with a foam barrier as well. Is the felt paper all you need for HW?

4. Finally, I'm planning to buy 3/4" thick HW flooring but may go with a 5/8" bamboo floor (waiting for the gov't to make up her mind). I'm curious how the thickness of the floor is going to compare to the tile+OSB? Is the top of the floor likely to be lower/higher than the old floor? Do I need to worry about this at all?

Thanks in advance!

Andy - Newark, CA

Neal Clayton
03-19-2009, 1:32 AM
i'll go ahead and take the wife's role and answer all of your questions with more questions...

1) what kind of subfloor is it? if it's a hardwood subfloor you can sand it to level it if you like, but spot checking it with a long level/straight edge and knocking down high spots with a belt sander should be sufficient. if it's a ply subfloor, then sanding it won't give much benefit.

2) i wouldn't worry with extra leveling unless it's way off to start with. how picky are you about level floors? flat is good, level isn't required.

3) is the house on a slab or crawlspace? if it's on a crawlspace it doesn't really need anything between floor and subfloor, although the vapor barrier wouldn't hurt. if it's on a slab yeah, use the felt. google "rising damp" and you'll get the full history, compiled info, and solutions for moisture issues with masonry structures.

4) again, that depends. did previous owners of your house do dumb things like put 2 different sets of tile over the top of 4 old layers of linoleum and maybe some hardwood on the bottom, all while never removing any of the old flooring? if not, it'll be higher than the tile was. this isn't a huge problem. you can cut the boards to fit around your lower cabinets and then add a quarter round or some such to hide any gaps between the cabinet and the floor.

additional considerations...

a) let it acclimate in your house for at least two or three weeks.

b) what about thresholds between other rooms? if you have exits from your kitchen in multiple directions, you'll want to add thresholds in the areas where end grain butts into the next floor.

Andy Pedler
03-19-2009, 1:52 AM
i'll go ahead and take the wife's role and answer all of your questions with more questions...

1) what kind of subfloor is it? if it's a hardwood subfloor you can sand it to level it if you like, but spot checking it with a long level/straight edge and knocking down high spots with a belt sander should be sufficient. if it's a ply subfloor, then sanding it won't give much benefit.

Neal, thanks for all the info. For starters, the subfloor is (I think) hardwood.


2) i wouldn't worry with extra leveling unless it's way off to start with. how picky are you about level floors? flat is good, level isn't required.

That matches what I've been reading. Flat good, level not required. I suspect that my 40 year old house probably isn't going to be level. But I do want to make it as flat as possible.


3) is the house on a slab or crawlspace? if it's on a crawlspace it doesn't really need anything between floor and subfloor, although the vapor barrier wouldn't hurt. if it's on a slab yeah, use the felt. google "rising damp" and you'll get the full history, compiled info, and solutions for moisture issues with masonry structures.

Our house has a crawlspace, not a slab. The vapor barrier is no big deal to lay down, but how precise does that need to be? Just rolled on or do I need to seal up the edges?


4) again, that depends. did previous owners of your house do dumb things like put 2 different sets of tile over the top of 4 old layers of linoleum and maybe some hardwood on the bottom, all while never removing any of the old flooring? if not, it'll be higher than the tile was. this isn't a huge problem. you can cut the boards to fit around your lower cabinets and then add a quarter round or some such to hide any gaps between the cabinet and the floor.

The previous owners did a lot of dumb things to the house, but in this case they almost got the floor right. It is tile with thinset over OSB on the subfloor. The only mistake they made was poorly applying the thinset so the tiles cracked and the grout has been chipping out all over.



a) let it acclimate in your house for at least two or three weeks.

b) what about thresholds between other rooms? if you have exits from your kitchen in multiple directions, you'll want to add thresholds in the areas where end grain butts into the next floor.

Acclimation shouldn't be an issue...I will make sure it sits in the house for a few weeks. But the transitions...another big worry. There are two places where the floor will meet the living room carpet. And there are two exterior doors with jambs. I'll need thresholds for those. For the doors, does the flooring typically fit under the jambs or do you run it up to the jamb and then apply threshold/molding to make the transition?

Thanks for all the info!

Andy - Newark, CA

Brian Effinger
03-19-2009, 10:14 AM
Andy,
Yeah, level is not that important. You definitely want to put down a vapor barrier. The dampness of the crawl space could migrate up into the floor and it will buckle.

You shouldn't need to seal the edges of it though, just overlap them an inch or two.
Also, don't roll out the felt paper across the entire room and then lay the floor. It is just asking for trouble. Lay it out one length at a time, nail the floor down to cover most of it, and then roll out another length. I hope that made sense. If not, let me know & I'll try to re-write it.

As for the doors and transitions - you can undercut the door jambs with a flush trim saw and slide the floor underneath and for the carpet, you can get a transition piece from a flooring supplier. You could also butt the flooring up to the carpet. If the new wood runs into the carpet perpendicular, lay two rows of it in the opposite direction at the carpet (so it is parallel to the carpet) and run the other boards into these.

I hope this all made sense.

Brian

Neal Clayton
03-19-2009, 11:10 AM
But the transitions...another big worry. There are two places where the floor will meet the living room carpet. And there are two exterior doors with jambs. I'll need thresholds for those. For the doors, does the flooring typically fit under the jambs or do you run it up to the jamb and then apply threshold/molding to make the transition?

Thanks for all the info!

Andy - Newark, CAflooring typically runs under the door frames, yes. what i've done in the past is go ahead and get the flooring butted up, and then rout halfway through the floor with a hand held router and some edge guides nailed down into the floor itself beneath the door frame, then lay in a 3/8 inch threshold in the hole and toe nail it in both directions. that way if the floor ever tends to move, the threshold moves with it.

i'm sure others have come up with other solutions to avoid removing doors and door frames, but i'm a stickler for making things look original so if it were me, i'd remove the door and cut the frame out, run the floor underneath it, and then put it all back. removing the door and frame isn't that hard, just pull the trim, cut the nails with a sawzall, and it should come right out. just have to make sure you put it back level and square. an additional benefit of this method is you can scab some extra support under the threshold.