Planer AND a jointer?? Why not just planer?

[Rick Cicciarelli]

So I understand the accepted process of milling lumber....jointer one face and then the one edge...and flip it over and plane the other face and saw off the other edge. Why not plane one face and then just flip it over and plane the other face...wouldn't that get you two parallel faces??

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

wouldn't that get you two parallel faces??

yes, but not necessarily a flat board. if the board has a bend or twist to it, the planer will often "flatten" it out as it runs through, but it will spring back once it comes out the other side. so it will plane it to the same thickness, but the bends and twists will stay.

it *is* possible to flatten it with a sled that the board rides on - the dles supporting the board so it does not deflect, and then it's possible to take a little off at a time and get the board flat.

[Jesse Espe]

The issue with planing one face and then the other is that, while the second face that you plane should be parallel to the first, there's no guarantee that the dressed piece, overall, would not be warped, crooked, bent, etc. Unlike the planer, the jointer creates a flat surface, independent of what the opposite face looks like. This reference face allows for a flat opposite face when run through the planer (hopefully).

Similar argument for squaring an edge on the jointer.

[glenn bradley]

As the others have stated; a planer creates parallel surfaces, even if the surfaces are not flat. If your board is bowed when run through the planer, you get a bowed board of a specific thickness.

A jointer creates a flat surface. This is the reference surface for all the following mill operations. A planer sled (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=58735)can be a substitute but a jointer is more 'available' if you can have both.

[Rick Fisher]

Its most noticable when working with rough lumber. If you buy glue line ripped, S2S1E boards, you can often get by without a Jointer. If your dealing with true rough lumber, you will make a mess of it with just a planer.

[Mats Bengtsson]

Its most noticable when working with rough lumber. If you buy glue line ripped, S2S1E boards, you can often get by without a Jointer. If your dealing with true rough lumber, you will make a mess of it with just a planer.

Even then, you are likely to want to joint the edge now and then. And if you are working with thinner boards and visible joining, you might need to joint the surface to allow for good joinery.

--- Mats ---

[Jason Beam]

the others have you answered quite well ... but since I like to blab, here's how i answer folks who ask me:

A jointer creates a reference surface where none exists (face jointing)

A planer uses a reference surface to create an opposite parallel surface (face planing)

Since a jointer does not rely on a pre-existing reference surface, it is able to create a straight surface where none had previously existed.

With a planer, the mantra ia "Banana In, Banana Out".

You do need both, or a means to perform both operations.

[Chip Lindley]

So I understand the accepted process of milling lumber....jointer one face and then the one edge...and flip it over and plane the other face and saw off the other edge. Why not plane one face and then just flip it over and plane the other face...wouldn't that get you two parallel faces??

Rick, I am wondering if you DO understand! Generally, we do not *joint* on a planer, and do not *plane* on a jointer. At the risk of being Reredundundant:

A *thickness planer* can only plane the top side of a board, following the flatness (or not) of the underside, fed across the planer bed. Any bow, warp or twist WILL remain.

A *jointer* can both flatten a board across its width AND length, and also joint a straight, square edge in relationship to that flattened width. But, without special fixtures, a *jointer* cannot achieve any parallelism between top and bottom surfaces, or both edges.

Joint and plane your first pile of rough lumber. Then you WILL Understand!

[Mike Robbins]

It is possible to get by with just a planer, but you will need to be very selective in your lumber selection and use.

I have only a planer, and wind up picking through the piles at my local lumber yard to find boards which are 'straight enough'. About one in four qualify, at best. So it takes me about a half-hour to select and sort out about 35 BF.

Would love to have a jointer, and it is next on my bargain hunting list.

[Mats Bengtsson]

It is possible to get by with just a planer, but you will need to be very selective in your lumber selection and use.

I have only a planer, and wind up picking through the piles at my local lumber yard to find boards which are 'straight enough'. About one in four qualify, at best. So it takes me about a half-hour to select and sort out about 35 BF.

Would love to have a jointer, and it is next on my bargain hunting list.

And for that strategy to succeed (I have been there) then I would claim you can not use thin boards, they tend to be more bent than thicker ones, and you need to trust the table saw for straigthening the edges.

--- Mats ---

[Prashun Patel]

The debate is which one to get first.
I opted for planer bkz at $300-500 the lunchbox planers for the space-constrained are generally regarded as reasonable substitutes for their floorstanding big brothers.

I don't know that the same can be said for jointers (I don't have one). Also, I hear a lot of people wishing they had bought an 8" jointer instead of a 6".

Bottom line, in a pinch, you can use a planer to joint board faces (with a planer sled) and you can get by jointing edges with a router table and a tablesaw.

[Sean Hughto]

Parallel, yes, but not necessarily FLAT as others have explained.

If you learn to use hand planes, you can do without a jointer. You use the planes to make the reference surface for the 'lectric thickness planer to finish up. The reference face doesn't have to be pretty - just flat.

As for edges, you can, again use a handplane (like a 7), or you can get acceptably square adn smooth long edges for edge jointing and the like from you table saw if you have a decent blade and well set up fence.

[Doug Hobkirk]

... A planer sled (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=58735)can be a substitute...

I love the planer sled 2.0 - I've seen some other designs but I like the wedging. I've never used one but I want to - I don't have a jointer nor space for one. I am already trying to figure out where I could store the sled. My questions are would you make any changes if you were to make a version 3 and to verify I grasp how a planer sled works.

I grasp the non-slip surface on the cross bars although it seems like you would have a small lip also to eliminate any tendency of the planed board to slip, especially since the crossbars are only held in position by the bungee cord.

Do you reposition the distance between the crossbars? It seems to me (who has never used any planer sled, much less your design) that it might be better to countersink a screw in an over-sized hole with just enough tension that the wedges would not fall out.

I would like to be sure I grasp the wedging. When a twisted (or concave or convex or whatever) board is put on the sled it will not rest evenly on the cross supports. The wedges are driven in on each support where the twisted board is not in contact with the cross support. Now the twisted board will be fully supported as it goes through the planer and the finished surface will be flat. Is that correct?

I humbly thank you for your excellent post on Planer Sled 2.0.