Hand Plane Poll...

[Aaron Hamilton]

Hey Creekers with Callused Hands,
I am a weekend warrior type woodworker and have an extensive collection of powered cast iron tools. With every project I complete, I find myself needing hand tools to increase the quality of my work. The number one thing that I find myself needing is a few good planes. I often have a glue up panel that just needs the slightest of tweaking to level out a seam or a cope and stick or frame door that needs the slightest trim off the end grain of a stile to even things up for an edge profile rout.

That said…I know NOTHING about hand planes. I’ve read a lot but there is so much random info that I’m overwhelmed. So, I want to poll the professionals. I have determined that I think I need one block plane and one smoothing/jack plane (and a shoulder plane down the road). My questions are these.

1. Can anyone point me to their two favorite planes (for the purposes listed above).
2. Assuming that I don’t want to spend more than $200 each for these, which ones would you buy?
3. What is a good sharpening system for under $150 to accompany these bad boys.
4. If I were to buy a 3rd plane, would a shoulder plane be my best choice? (I do a lot of mortise and tenon work)

Thanks in advance!

[Brian Kent]

My 2 cents:

Block Plane: $20 to $179
Old Stanley 60-1/2 or
Lie-Nielsen 102 or
Lie-Nielsen 60-1/2 or
Lee Valley Apron or
Lee Valley DX60

Lee Valley Low Angle Jack: $219
or an Old Stanley #4 & #5 ($20 to $50 each)

Lee Valley Medium Shoulder Plane (but only by everyone's recommendation - I don't own one): $179

Have fun.

Brian

[Jim Koepke]

I will second most of what Brian said.

My suggestion is for a 60-1/2 or 65 equivalent block plane. The particular model would depend on your hand size. The 65 is bigger. I have not used one, but the 60-1/2R rabbeting block plane from Lie-Nielsen might help at killing two birds with one plane.

A smoother recommendation would depend a bit more on knowing your needs. A few swipes over a small area to clean up a glue line, a #3, #4 or a #4-1/2 depending on your hand size. These planes are about the same length, but they get wider and heavier as the numbers get higher.

Look here for links to more information about planes and such to get a better understanding:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=103805

If you need to plane pieces longer than 20 - 30 inches, then a #5 or 5-1/2 may serve you better. The 1/2 sizes are wider.

If you are buying used, I would suggest Stanley planes from about 1920 or earlier.

A shoulder plane is handy for mortice and tenon work. They are also useful in a few other applications such as cutting half laps and when trimming an edge. I got lucky on an old Stanley 93. It is not as good as what is available today from LN or LV, but it does the job for me. I tried out a Bridge City shoulder plane and was very impressed, but for the money, the Stanley was about $80 and the BC is about $600. Bells and whistles are nice, but I'll just turn up the radio and sing along if the money is not in my pocket to spend.


For sharpening, there are a lot of systems. For you price point, you may want to learn sharpening with the scary sharp method. Once you work out the kinks, then you may be better able to decide if you want to use diamond, ceramic, oil stones or water stones. Each of these can be an investment that will take you close to the $150 you mention.

I have tried all but the ceramic stones. Each system has its benefits and its short falls.

jim

[Sean Hughto]

Okay, here's my dos pesos:

Let's start at sharpening: While a little ($20) over your budget, I recommend this (Norton's waterstone kit):

http://www.nortonstonesstore.com/Store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=157

I'd also recommend you pick up one of these:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=60311&cat=1,43072,43078&ap=1

or if you're feeling wealthy, one of these (with the camber roller):

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=51868&cat=1,43072,43078&ap=1

Now, for planes, you have lots of choices. If I were you, and didn't plane anything too gnarly (highly figured or exotics), I might just buy a vintage Stanley 4 (Sweetheart - 1930s - or earlier) and a Lie Nielsen Stanley replacement blade. That will get your feet wet just fine, and nice ones can be had for well under $50 on eBay and elsewhere.

Another good choice in my experience is the LN low angle jack (Stanley 62), but that's $245.

As for a block plane, my very favorite because of its quality and versatility (it can do a ton of things for you INCLUDING shave tenon cheeks well) is LN's rabbet block at $165. It does everything a regular block does too, of course.

As for a shoulder, my go to is the LN Large shoulder plane (styled after the Record 073), which goes for around $250.

Frankly though, a good bet for tenon cheeks (and a ton of other stuff) is Lee Valley's router plane:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=52609&cat=1,41182,48945

Well, those are some of my favorites, hope that helps.

[Sean Hughto]

By the way, I won't offer an opinion on any plane I haven't used. Here are mine - feel free to ask about any of these:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3469/3354647916_7d5c6e017a_b.jpg

[David Keller NC]

Aaron - A couple of thoughts. Based on what you said you needed to do, I'd buy a smoother first (this gets you the smoothing of glue lines on a panel, trimming small cabinet doors, etc..). While you can do this with a block plane, their small size means more work, and I find the grip on most any block plane not ideal for fairly large planing jobs - you want a "toted" plane.

There are tons of choices, but you can narrow it down by looking at a larger perspective - do you want to spend time on tuning up a plane, or have one that's ready to go out of the box (so you spend your time learning to sharpen the blade and use it)? If the answer is the former, a Stanely (I'll expand Jim's suggestion and say that a pre-1960's Stanely may do what you want - the late models and current production are junk) will do the job, but everyone I know (and myself) finds them to be far better users with a replaced blade - I would recommend a Hock.

If the answer is the latter, then you've a choice between Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley's offerings. They are not as cheap as an antique Stanley, but they are pretty cheap on an absolute scale. Frankly, I would avoid the "paralysis by analysis" that can result in parsing out the #3, #4, #4-1/2, Bevel Up vs. Bevel Down, etc... debate and just pick one that appeals to you. Any of them will certainly get the job done, and will be leagues better than a random orbit sander.

For mortise and tenon work, you've lots of choices, but again, any of the L-N/L-V offerings will get the job done - just match the size to the size of work that you do most often. If it's large pieces, buy a large shoulder plane. If it's small pieces, buy a smaller one.

Regarding the block plane - I guarantee that if you decide you need planes based on the smoother and the shoulder, you'll wind up with a block plane (and a good deal of other ones besides :D).

[Aaron Hamilton]

I'll clarify a couple of things you guys asked.

I do not want to have to do any "work" on the plane straight out of the box besides putting an edge on the blade.
As far as planing/smoothing large boards, I have a 20" planer right now so the big stuff I can even out. I'm talking about tiny misalignments on edge glueups that aren't worth the risk of sending through the planer.

So, I'm hearing a #4 low angle jack plane and a block plane would be my two best bets? I really like the idea of the LN rabbet block. Anybody else have this plane? Also, for a #4, is there any better plane between a LV and a LN?

Also, is there anything wrong with the motorized sharpeners like the Sheppach Tiger or the Tormek or is a wetstone just better all around?

[Sean Hughto]

I do not want to have to do any "work" on the plane straight out of the box besides putting an edge on the blade.

For your purposes, you would not likely have to do anything significant to a vintage Stanley. Some guys take fettling to extremes, but that is not really necessary to have avery good worker. I'd also ask you whether you expect your table saw, jointer, band saw, etc. to work without periodic upkeep? Why would you expect a plane to be different?


As far as planing/smoothing large boards, I have a 20" planer right now so the big stuff I can even out. I'm talking about tiny misalignments on edge glueups that aren't worth the risk of sending through the planer.

This may not be a realistic expectation. Handplaning, just like machine planing, risks tearout too. Also, you often can't work on one localized (even tiny) "step" ona panel without working a much larger area, at least if you want to keep the panel flat. If panel work is a main thing you'll be doing, you may prefer a 4 1/2 for it's extra width.


Also, for a #4, is there any better plane between a LV and a LN?

It's just a matter of personal preference really.

[Aaron Hamilton]

I totally get what you are saying on the localized planing. I intend to learn the method on how to properly do things with hand planes. I just want an alternative to running the board through the big planer.


I assume I'll probably pick up these first two and then start collecting like all the other guys I see on the neander side.

[Richard Dooling]

My $0.02

For slight adjustments to glue-ups with low tearout risk you might want to consider the Veritas (#05P29.01) or another brand of scraper plane. I find mine very useful and more versitile than might be expected. Maybe you just need a card scraper and a holder.

I see you have the Veritas Sean. What do you think?

I have picked up a couple of pre WWII Stanley/Bailey #4s in very good condition fro $15 each from a local antiques dealer. great planes.

My LN low angle block with adjustable throat is largely responsible for opening my eyes to what a quality tool can do.

Even the best of these will likely need a little tuning. I just spent 20 minutes flattening a Hock blade. Not bad but not much is just right, right out of the box.

I can't speak to other ceramic stones but if you get the Spyderco stones you will need a diamond stone, some elbow grease and too much time to flatten them. Having said that, my understanding is that they should stay flat for a very long time and they do give a very nice edge.

[Sean Hughto]

Richard,

I like the Veritas scraper fine. I bought it after reading a FWW article about it, and decided to see if it was better than an 80 or a card. It definitely is easier on the hands, produces a more regular surface (probably just my own poor technique with the cards), and works well. It saved my butt on some really curly cherry that tore out no matter what direction of plane I came at it with (I {gulp} was almost ready to reach for the shoed belt sander!). ;-)

[Todd Bin]

Lie=Nielsen planes are ready out of the box. The blade will cut. That said I do always sharpen them on waterstones. If you watch the video on plane blade sharpening by David Charlesworth he will show you how easy it is to sharpen a plane blade with only 3 waterstones -- 800, 1200 and 8000 grit. You will also want go get some wet/dry sand paper and a granite block. All of this should be at about the $150 mark.

My first two planes were the LN 5 1/2 and the 60 1/2 Low angle block plane. The 60 1/2 is THE low angle block plane. Everyone raves about it. And I confirm that it is marvelous. Works great on end grain. As one poster stateed you could get the rabbet block plane and this would work for your shoulder trimming as well.

The 5 1/2 makes a great smoother and is long enough to be useful for jointing and flattening boards. You could also get a second blade and put a large camber on it and use it as a scrub plane.

So in summary, the 60 1/2 rabbet and the 5 1/2 represent a lot of bang for the buck in that they can perform a great many tasks. I also prefer the LN over the LV but I do own some LV planes because LN doesn't make them and they perform well.

Beware the slipperyness of the slope you are about to step on.

[phil harold]

I use a cabinet scraper by sandvik or crown tools to remove, glue flattening, dealing with wavy grains, and genral smooting instead of sand paper ( I use a 5" 100 grit wheel to put my bur on )

for sharpening plane blades I would use the " scary sharp" method to start

then I would go to japanese water stones when you got some bucks to spare

I use old stanely planes just make sure the blade is not pitted and you can produce nice cuts

for info on old stanely planes Patricks Blood and gore is a great
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html

[Sean Hughto]

Todd,

I find your comments about teh 5 1/2 interesting. Just so Aaron knows that there are a variety of opinions out there to consider, I offer the following.

- I think Ian Kirby did a lot to bring the 5 1/2 some popularity as he advocated the 7 jointer and same blade width 5 1/2 as super smoother (super in terms of large, I guess).

- I have one, and don't see the attraction for the following reasons:

- a smoother, by definition is supposed to have a short sole so that it can smooth localized areas without registering on higher adjacent areas - the 5 1/2 has a sole as long as jack (indeed, it's just an extra wide jack)

- a jointer is supposed to have a long sole so that it registers on as much of an edge or face as possible for truing - the 7 is much better for that with its significantly longer sole

- unless you are a really big guy, the 5 1/2 can see really cumbersome as a smoother - far far from a nible 3 or 4, or even 4 1/2

- I can't imagine a 5 1/2 as a decent scrub since its blade is so wide - a true scrub is narrow for a reason: when you are going deep, you want to go narrow or the thing is gonna be a bear to push

Aaron, as always, there is never one size (or method) fits all in woodworking. These are just some thoughts to inform your decision.

[David Keller NC]

"So, I'm hearing a #4 low angle jack plane and a block plane would be my two best bets? I really like the idea of the LN rabbet block. Anybody else have this plane? Also, for a #4, is there any better plane between a LV and a LN?

Also, is there anything wrong with the motorized sharpeners like the Sheppach Tiger or the Tormek or is a wetstone just better all around?"

I have the LN rabbet block - also the LN LA 60 series block, the standard angle 60 series block, the #4, the #4-1/2, the #5-1/2, a #8, and a bunch of other ones that's more than you'd want to know (the slope is indeed very slippery ;)).

Regarding M&T - while I suppose it's possible to use the rabbet block to tune shoulders, I use a shoulder plane for this purpose (I've all 4 LN sizes). There's good reason why you want a tall, narrow plane for this purpose, and the L-N rabbet block isn't ideally suited for this task IMO because of the grip - your fingers get in the way. What it does do well is adjust the thickness of the tenon (by planing the cheek), and of course its main purpose, which is adjusting rabbets. An alternative to using a plane, BTW, for adjusting the cheeks is to use one of LN's joinery floats - they work very well for this purpose, and is what I use most often.

Regarding the large panels you're referring to, I would get a smoother. I'm assuming you're not after getting the whole panel dead flat (in which case a jointer plane is what you want - a #7 or a #8), just to remove slight mis-alignments. In this case, the short sole of a smoother will allow you to do this without having to plane the stuffing out of large areas of the panel.

Regarding LA, bevel up planes - they work as advertised, but be aware that they can be more difficult to set up and use for a newbie than a standard Bailey design. It's not rocket science, but you will have to camber the blade to a greater extent than a bevel-down plane, and at least in my shop, there's no great performance advantage to them. They do, however, feel different (lower center of gravity), which some users prefer.

Regarding sharpening - You don't absolutely have to have a grinder, but I think you will want one at some point. The reason is that hand-honing is worlds easier with the hollow grind to the bevel that a grinder yields. I have a Tormek, but you can just as easily learn to use a (cheaper) dry grinder for the purpose. You can also get by with a 1000 grit and 8000 grit Norton water stone (and some means to flatten them - wet dry sandpaper and a chinese granite surface plate is perhaps the cheapest option) for now, at least until you've rounded the bevel sufficiently to the point where it requires re-grinding. You can do this by hand on a coarse stone (220 grit waterstone, washita oilstone, 220 grit wet dry, etc...), but it does take a while to grind back a flat bevel because you're taking the whole bevel back.

[Martin Cash]

I have been woodworking for fifty years and now have a large number of different handplanes.
If I had to go back to just two, I would choose the first two I ever owned.
My first was a Stanley 4 1/2 Smoother. I did nearly everything with this plane. After a few years I needed a longer plane for Jointing and tried a Stanley Number 7 and an Anchor Number 7.
The Anchor (Jernbolaget Blade) seemed so much more comfortable in my hand so I kept it.
So there you have it - a 4 1/2 and a 7.
There is almost nothing that I do today that these two wouldn't tackle, and I would find other ways of doing the jobs that the other planes do.
Cheers
MC

[Joel Goodman]

I would consider a LN BU Jack (with an extra iron honed at 38 degrees) which is LN's recommendation as a good place to start. It is capable of many tasks and is not fussy to set up. I would get a coarse and extra fine DMT Duo diamond stone and a Norton 8K waterstone. And add a simple honing guide from LN. IMHO this is a setup that will take you down the slope with minimum frustration and maximum productivity. Also call LN and discuss it with them. Another alternative is the LN 5 1/2 which is excellent but is perhaps not as good a choice for a first plane. The beauty of the BU Jack is that it's just an oversize block plane and is really simple. With an iron sharpened at a higher angle you can do a lot.

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

The party line here is "It depends", and for good reason. Roughly in order:


There are two kinds of block planes: standard angle and low angle. Most people gravitate toward the low angle variety as they're more useful for planing end grain. Standard angle block planes are very useful but not necessarily something you want to go after. Good candidates here are a Stanley #60 ½, any of the Lee Valley low angle block planes, the Lie-Nielsens, hard to go too far wrong. The antiques are dime a dozen and the most fettling you'll usually have to do is sharpen the iron and maybe squirt WD-40 in a couple places (never a bad idea with an antique anyway).

The bench plane is much more complicated. You don't indicate if you intend to use your bench plane for final smoothing--if you do, and you want to use an antique, it will require fettling. If you just want to use it for a first pass and follow it with a random orbital sander later, I would recommend an antique Stanley #5, or possibly a #5 ½, but basically whatever jack plane comes your way. The low angle jacks from LV and LN are excellent choices here but may be overkill. I only have the LV one and it is a very, very nice plane, worth the money, but you can get in deep trouble using the low angle iron on curly maple. (DAMHIKT)

If you want to use it for final surfacing, that's a different kettle of worms. Almost all antique Stanleys can be fiddled with to make them excellent for this purpose but it sometimes requires a lot of effort. I notice LN has a 4 ½ with a high angle frog, which would be absolutely delightful if not for the $335 price. I hear excellent things about the LV Bevel-Up Smoother but have no personal experience. One excellent step, if you have an antique in mind, is to buy a replacement iron, be it from LV or Hock or wherever. There's nothing inherently wrong with the stock irons but these are usually better.

For sharpening I use Norton waterstones. I started with the 220/1000 and 4000/8000 combination stones, and had to buy a replacement 220 due to excessive wear trying to lap antique tools. It should last you years if you don't develop a fetish for flattening chisels. I also use a felt wheel and buffing compound. There are much more complicated ways to go. There are much more expensive ways to go. There are ways to go that have a lower up front cost but wear quickly (sandpaper, for example). This is what I do.

I have one shoulder plane, the LV bullnose, which is quite servicable. Usually I use chisels, or rarely my float. I don't feel competent to recommend something here.

[Danny Thompson]

The problem with the Rabbet block plane is that the blade can't be cambered, so it is more prone to leaving plane tracks..

I'd go with the LN or new LV adjustable mouth low-angle block plane.

You could go with a smoother, but the jack would provide greater flexibility. If you don't plan on buying more than the three planes, then I'd go with the LV Low Angle Smoother or Low Angle Jack, which are both bevel-up and can accommodate a variety of micro-bevels to achieve a variety of effective cutting angles.

[Sean Hughto]

How do you go about cambering your BU planes?

I ask because, stuff like this makes it sound like sort of a pain (sorry, Derek!):

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/TheSecretToCamberinBUPlaneBlades.html

[Joel Goodman]

For use for smoothing a very slight camber to avoid tracks is all that's required as you are taking a very fine cut. I have no problem with a camber roller on the LV mk 2 or on the elipse style guides with a LN BU jack. For rougher planing I use a BD but there are several options for a BU including a toothed blade which takes a lot off and needs no cambering. I got the impression the OP was more interested in fine planing that rough and quick stock removal.

[lowell holmes]

There is an excellent article (actually two articles ) about hand planes in the current issue of Fine Woodworking.
I started with two planes and progressed to more than I need. :)

The second article really helped me with the proper use of the jack plane.

The Garrett Hack book on handplanes is entrtaining as well as informative.

[James Harrison]

A type that I have not seen mentioned is the ECE Prius wooden hand planes. They are rated very high. The ones with the adjustable throat run at 200 or more. They are something to look at and consider.
I have the LieN low angle jack plane and it is excellent. I have used it for hours flattening and squaring rough cypress lumber. I also have one of the old No.4 Bailey planes with a Lie-Neilsen blade in it and it works beautifully. There are some excellent video's on Fine Woodworking that show sharpening and using planes. It costs about 14.00 per yr. to become a member but it is worth it.

[Danny Thompson]

Steve,

Derek's technique is genius. I don't have a belt sander of the type he uses, so I had to try some other options inspired by his ideas. Three different cambering techniques in all:

Standard Roller Technique (the simplest and probably the easiest for slight cambering, probably all you need for a smoother, jack, or jointer):
Load the blade in a honing guide (a Veritas MK. II in my case, but it shouldn't matter) to take a 2º microbevel and hone the microbevel square on your middle level (say a 1000 or 1200 grit waterstone or a 5 micron microabrassive sheet). Then shift my fingertips to one corner of the blade (middle finger on the blade, index finger on top of it) and press progressively harder through the stroke for a good number of pull strokes (10-20 or more). It is important to press progressively harder through each stroke to achieve a curve instead of a facet. Check it, and if it looks like enough is taken off for your tastes, then repeat with the other corner. Then repeat--hone square, then hone the corners with increasing pressure through the stroke--with your higher grits.

I used this to camber a #4 Hock blade and a 25º LV BU blade.

The second easiest option:
Buy a camber roller for the Mk.II and do the same as above, although, with the camber roller you can take multiple passes with constant pressure, with your fingers placed at various places along the camber from stroke to stroke.

I used this for a 50º camber (set the honing angle to 50º) on a 25º LV BU blade and a 40º camber on a 38º LV BU blade.

The toughest, but cheapest option:
Hollow grind a curved bevel in the blade freehand. Then sharpen and hone the blade by turning your stone or sandpaper sideways, and freehand the curved bevel across the sharpening medium using a controlled swinging action of the shoulders. Tough to get right.

I used this on my very first no-name, big box store block plane when I needed a scrub plane, but didn't know what a scrub plane was. It worked, but was a pain.