Veneer Over Hardwood

[Nick Shepler]

I am in the process of building a solid cherry headboard for a queen size bed. This is a Woodsmith project where the top rail has an arch in it. Achieving the arch required having a 5/4 cherry board 12" wide by 6' long. Trying to find a clear piece with little to no sap wood was impossible. Therfore, I elected to sandwich together 1/4" & 3/4" MDF panels to achieve the desired 1" final thickness.

I then purchased a sheet of paper-backed cherry veneer from VeneerSupplies.com along with their recommended Flex-Pro adhesive and the appropriate application tools. I do not have a vacuum press so this proved to be a suitable alternative. The arched rail turned out so beautiful that I am considering applying the same veneer to 3 center panels that are made up of 3/4" solid cherry planks edge glued together. The panels are roughly 12" & 24" wide by about 24" tall.

The only reason I am considering veneer over the panels is that they have a few imperfections in them. At the time I was building the panels, I had not given any consideration to the change in direction (MDF & veneer) associated with the arched rail. Otherwise, this would be a moot point.

Joe at VS.com didn't seem all that crazy about applying veneer over top of the hardwood panels but encouraged me to research it on line and recommended Sawmill Creek. I suppose the concern is that the panels will expand and contract & in the process the veneer may not move with the panel leading to delamination. The panels will be installed in such a manner to allow for seasonal movement, i.e. "float".

Anyone have suggestions or opinions on this?

Thanks

[Jamie Buxton]

Veneering is an old, old technique, antedating plywood by many centuries. Back then, the substrate for veneer was solid lumber. That is, veneer over hardwood is perfectly feasible, and can be structurally sound. That said, my experience with paper-backed veneers is that you can see the paper at the edge, which is not nice. And my experience with veneer and contact cement is that it doesn't work. The contact cement bond fails when solvents from the varnish hit it, or it fails in service.

[Chris Padilla]

Joe at VS knows his stuff. So far, he has been dead on with every bit of advice that I've asked of him. I would be very leary of veneering over solid wood.

The FlexPro looks like quality stuff so I wouldn't have any qualms with using it (I'm using the Better Bonds Cold Press Veneer Glue and it has been great) but your substrate is of concern.

[David DeCristoforo]

A plain sawn solid wood plank will make a poor substrate. There will simply be too much wood movement for veneer to be stable, especially considering those widths. It's true that veneer has traditionally been applied over a hardwood core but it was rarely a flat sawn plank. Vertical grain wood was used and even then, those panels had a tendency to crack and warp. More often than not, those hardwood cores (lumber cores) were glued up from strips of wood oriented so as to provide as close to a perfect vertical grain core as possible.

[Nick Shepler]

I have done some research and went back to look at the glued up panels again and I am going to forego veneering them. I will save the veneer for a future project.

Thanks for your input guys!

[george wilson]

Unless you have real good veneering technique,if using water based glue,like hide glue,which you should,the veneer will suck the veneered side very hollow when the glue dries. I've seen old pieces veneered over all manner of wood grain,but the veneer was applied right,so it did not stress the wood beneath it.

[Doug Hobkirk]

.....Joe at VS.com ...

Joe at VS knows his stuff...
I am unfamiliar with "Joe at VS" - I suspect the web site isn't the "flirt for free" I found at VS.com.

[Peter Stahl]

I am unfamiliar with "Joe at VS" - I suspect the web site isn't the "flirt for free" I found at VS.com.

VS.com he's talking about is VeneerSupplies.com

[Mike Henderson]

And "Joe" is Joe Woodworker. (Yes, that's not a joke.)

Mike

[Oh, and paper backed veneer is only good for certain applications. It's so thin you can go through it with fine sandpaper. If I were you, I'd look at some regular veneer if you decide to go forward.]

[Chris Padilla]

I am unfamiliar with "Joe at VS" - I suspect the web site isn't the "flirt for free" I found at VS.com.

Doug,

Sorry about all the "acronyms".

www.joewoodworker.com (http://www.joewoodworker.com) and www.veneersupplies.com (http://www.veneersupplies.com) are more or less one in the same site. Joe can be found: joe@veneersupplies.com or joe@joewoodworker.com and amazingly enough, he'll answer your email and even more amazing, it'll be quite fast. :)

[Scott Rollins]

While refurbishing top tops of several tables for antique stores I have found many instances of veneer over quartersawn hardwood. The veneer is generally wood backed (2 or 3 layers or poplar with premium wood on top). But I'm fixing them cuz the veneer broke free:rolleyes:.

[Joe Jensen]

I built my "Heirloom" bedroom suite from solid Sapele with ribbon stripe Sapele veneer over the top. I was careful to use quartersawn Sapele to minimize the wood movement. I built this about 18 years ago with no issues so far. I used Unibond Epoxy glue...joe