Finishing Steps For Southern Yellow Pine

[Keith Starosta]

I am reaching the final stages of the mission-inspired plant stand I am making for my wife, as documented in this thread (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=106117&highlight=plant). I should be able to start the initial finishing steps tonight, but wanted to get some opinions first.

This is the first time I am making a piece of "furniture" out of SYP, and am not sure what I should do first. I plan to use a combination of Transtint Dyes to achieve the color I want, will most likely go with satin Arm-R-Seal as a topcoat. What I am unsure about is when I should seal the wood. :confused: Should I use a de-waxed shellac before I apply the dye, or after? Or is there not really a difference in this case? Obviously, I don't want to muddle this thing up at this stage, so any opinions you could give would be greatly appreciated!

Regards,

Keith

[Prashun Patel]

Dye will penetrate more evenly than pigment stain, so you don't need to preseal the wood with shellac as a blotch-preventer. If you were using a pig stain, some might counsel to wash it with very thin shellac to seal some of the blotch prone areas, which would have the negative affect of reducing overall darkness of subsequent stain coats, but the positive effect of evening the tone that does penetrate.

If it were me, I'd dye first. You can keep adding coats to darken, and if it's too dark, you can wipe it with water to lighten it. You can also selectively lighten or darken areas that might blotch over. You should sponge the wood 1st, though, and knock the grain back b4 dying. if you don't, then you risk sanding thru the dye if you raise grain during that stage.

You can shellac if you want, but you might just go straight to yr top coat. If yr going for a dark brown Mission finish, then any kind of amber shellac might make the pc too red (IMHO). I'd just 'seal' the wood with a thinned topcoat. If yr topcoat's oil, there's no reason to seal the dye in anyway...

Also, some Mission finish schedules include glazing a black or chocolate brown color after sealing. You can do this by mixing a little oil-based artist color to yr varnish top coat, wiping it on and then brushing off most or all of it, taking care to leave deposits in the crevices. Of course, when you put on the 1st subsequent topcoat, you gotta take care not to lift out the glaze.

[Neal Clayton]

well, yellow pines are very thirsty, so would absorb a seal coat entirely before you dye, but as shawn said it might not be necessary. i like using an oil sealer to darken the grain a bit before the color coats, but i use shellac for color so i need that, you probably don't with a dye.

and yes amber/garnet shellac will redden it quite a bit.

here's what your pine would look like with an oil sealer, garnet/amber shellac, and an oil varnish on top (this is garnet, the amber would be more yellow, but still have a red'ish tint)...

so i think if you want to seal it first, use something clear, not amber, assuming you don't want an amber finish. if you do want an amber finish, shellac away ;).

but if you do use a sealer first, no matter what color it is, it will redden the rings a bit. how much depends on the color of the sealer.

[Keith Starosta]

Thanks for the responses, guys! A lot to think about...




...

If it were me, I'd dye first. You can keep adding coats to darken, and if it's too dark, you can wipe it with water to lighten it. You can also selectively lighten or darken areas that might blotch over. You should sponge the wood 1st, though, and knock the grain back b4 dying. if you don't, then you risk sanding thru the dye if you raise grain during that stage.

...


Shawn, I sanded the piece with 120, then 150. At that point, I lightly sprayed all of pieces with distilled water, let it sit for a few seconds, and then wiped off the excess. I then sanded away any fuzz thoroughly with 180 grit. Do you think that process will eliminate what I've bolded above?

I'm certainly going to prepare a number of test pieces before I move on to the final product.

Thanks again!

- Keith

[Prashun Patel]

I've heard that it's a myth that sanding above 150 is necessary on soft woods, but I've had good luck sanding up to 220. Then sponge, then resand with 220. Sanding to a higher grit will help with even color absorption and avoid any muddy spots. Too high, and you start to burnish the wood which actually impedes the absorption.

[Keith Starosta]

OK. Thanks, Shawn!!

- Keith

[Neal Clayton]

not only that, but with yellow pine, the heartwood is abnormally hard, and the sapwood abnormally soft. once you get it smooth, additional sanding actually does more harm than good, since the sapwood will continue to sand away, and the heartwood won't (to an extent). therefore you actually make it less smooth by sanding it more. the heat from sanding compounds the problem (hence the idea of sponging it).

once you get the hang of working with it it's not difficult, i still like it, it's the least expensive domestic wood we have that's highly grain figured. but there are a few tricks and gotchas ;).

[Keith Starosta]

not only that, but with yellow pine, the heartwood is abnormally hard, and the sapwood abnormally soft. once you get it smooth, additional sanding actually does more harm than good, since the sapwood will continue to sand away, and the heartwood won't (to an extent). therefore you actually make it less smooth by sanding it more. the heat from sanding compounds the problem (hence the idea of sponging it).

once you get the hang of working with it it's not difficult, i still like it, it's the least expensive domestic wood we have that's highly grain figured. but there are a few tricks and gotchas ;).

Neal, that is a great observation...and one that I unfortunately discovered over the weekend. Luckily, it was only the underside of the top, so it won't be seen by anyone. I made sure to take it easy over the rest of the piece.

- Keith