Need Some Neighborly Advice

[Dave Right]

I have 2 neighbors that I am good friends with. We share work where extra muscle is needed. We take care of each others dogs and cats when one is on vacation. But how far should it go to sharing tools? One man has limited workshop in his garage and the other has none and is not afraid of telling anyone " Why should I buy tools when Dave has all I need." I am the only one who has a building with a lot of tools which I have collected over the years.
Here comes the rub. When they borrow a biscuit jointer I am expected to supply the biscuits for the entire project, or borrow the saw-all I supply the blades that often come back bent or dull, or the roto zip with dull bits.
I dont recall ever borrowing tools from either of them but they always borrow tools from me.
At the present time one neighbor borrowed the power washer a week ago and told my wife he would return it in 1/2 hour at the time he borrowed it.
He still has it.
I have several times given him a week to return tools only having to go over there and get them before I forget where they were which is my biggest fear. - and the additional cost to me just for them to borrow my tools.
I am considering either the policy of supply your own bits, etc or no more
tools borrowed which I have heard it not that uncommon.
Help! Need some advice.

[Greg Heppeard]

My rule is, it's ok to use it in my shop, it doesn't leave my shop and I expect the person using my shop to buy consumables to replace what they've used. I've used my tools too many years making a living with them, I don't have time or money to replace them needlessly.

[Brian Austin]

All of my neighbors have different types of tools (I'm the woodworker, one neighbor is the welder/machinist, another is a mechanic, etc.) so when we borrow, we treat them like our own. Every tool I've returned has been cleaned, oiled (if possible) and bits/blades replaced or sharpened. Every tool that's been returned to me has been treated the same way (with the exception of my chisels, since they don't know how to hand sharpen anyway! ;) ).

Set the policy and provide no exceptions. It's your property and your money. A good neighbor wouldn't have a problem with it.

My $.02.

[Waymon Campbell]

David - I agree with Brian on this one. It's a respect issue. If I borrow a friends tool I treat it as if is mine. It gets returned in better shape than it was borrowed. If the tool uses consumables, I buy them (and usually send some back with the tool). If I need it longer than I had originally said I let the owner know ASAP and its up to them whether I can continue using it or not. It's a privilege to have friends/neighbors with tools who are willing to share. I don't abuse the privilege and I expect the same from them.

Set your expectations and they should be willing to comply.

Good luck.

[Rob Littleton]

How about this, when they borrow the tool, they get the tool. The blades etc stay in my shop. Tell him the local hardware store has the bits or the blade he needs.

Also, make it known, in a pleasant way, that the tool will need to be returned soon as you loan many tools out and cant keep track.

As someone else said, a good neighbor should understand.

[Wes Bischel]

Dave,

This is a tough one for sure. Since they are good friends, just let them know they need to buy a blade, or have an old blade for them to use (like the original equipment blade). Let them know it may not be sharp, and they should get a new blade(s) for their job. If they look at the price of blades, they may find the old one works fine. ;) I have known others (professionals) that have old or beater tools they lend.

My neighbor borrowed a block plane three years ago -proceeded to leave it outside. He swore he would get me a new one even though I told him it was OK, I'd clean up the old one - still haven't seen it, and I haven't had the heart to ask - I think he's embarrassed. I wasn't really bothered by the incident, but he hasn't asked to borrow anything since then. Thankfully it wasn't a LN. :p

Good luck, Wes

[Rob Russell]

Dave,

I'm rather a tool nut, with the largest tool collection of the neighhood. I don't mind loaning "unbreakable" stuff like my ladders out, and have never been asked about other stuff.

Were I asked, I would:


Keep a log book. Item loaned, to whom, date out, condition out, expected return date, actual return date and item condition on return. One reason for the log would be so you don't forget who has a tool and what you agreed to when you lent it.
Expect borrowers to supply their own consumable and provide some of the leftovers (like biscuits) to you as "rent" for the tool.
If a tool came back damaged, grungy or abused - tell the borrower right then and there that he needed to restore the tool to it's "borrowed" condition.


You can tell your neighbors the next time they ask to borrow a tool that you have new policies. Rationale for you is the cost of tools, cost of consumables, and - frankly - you're not a Home Depot or Taylor Rental that can writeoff abused tools and sell them for cheap. If your neighbors want to borrow things, they need to learn the rhyme Your Tools - Your Rules!. If they don't like your rules, they are free to rent tools from HD or Taylor.

Think those terms are harsh?

Ask them:
If you loaned out your car, would you have an expected return date?
If you loaned out your car, would you expect the gas tank to be empty when you got it back?
If you loaned out your car, would you expect someone to fix the damage if they hit a tree?


Same principles for your tools, just a different dollar amount.

I've always subscribed to Brian and Waymon's position - anything I borrowed before I had the tools was returned cleaner than I got it.

Just my opinion.

Rob

[Dennis Peacock]

My policy is:

<b>I don't loan tools. Not even to my best of neighbors.</b>

I have lost several tools to "good neighbors" over the years in the past. If they need a tool....they can come in MY SHOP and be supervised and replace consumables at just above my cost as I have to drive and get them.

There are a few folks that I would loan tools to without a problem: Terry Hatfield, Bob Lasley, Kevin G., Terry Quiram....well...you get the right idea here. The popular DIY'er that needs tools above a tape measure or pencil, doesn't understand nor has ever experienced buy a "good" tool and realizing the actual cost of the tools, cutters, bits and etc. Several people have asked me for my jigsaw.....I told them it was a $160 jigsaw and they like to have blew a gasket. You mean to tell me that you spend THAT kind of money on a stupid "tool"? I tell them...."YES".....after all YOU are the one coming to me to borrow a tool...right? :rolleyes: ;) :D

Just be careful......some folks just like taking advantage of you and your shop and your tools and your kindness....and the list goes on from here.

[Steven Wilson]

Good tools are like musical instruments - I don't let others borrow them unless I know that they will take better care of them than I do. I do however have some tools that I'm glad to loan out, these are mostly house tools and stay in a different tool box. These are the tools that my wife, kids, and neighbor can freely use.

[Perry Schmidt]

I'm like Dennis - after 'having to loan' them out to relatives and getting them dinged up a bit, I use the same rule - I never loan them out. Ever. If you need a specialized tool, I'll help you out and bring it over. Otherwise they stay in my shop. It's caused some questionable looks, but it's saved some of my tools too. And just about every time I've broken the rule I've regretted it.

Perry

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Like others on this thread....when I borrow something I bring it back in better condition than I borrowed it! I have a close friend....he's loaned me things he won't loan his own brother because he know how I take care of things! I do the same with him. Over the years we've borrowed each others' vehicles, rifles, tools, etc. I have other friends that I will duck and dodge to keep from loaning a tool. They forget to return it or break it and return something of lesser quality. In short it's tough! One thing's for sure.......if you don't do something....nothing will change! Maybe you could "borrow" something that belongs to them.....buy a new blade....etc.. and return it with the new "consumeable". Maybe after a time or two they'd get the message. I'd make sure to apologize for the length of time it was borrowed and thank them for the loan. Good Luck! It's a tough situation that needs to be remedied!

[Bill Grumbine]

Well when I was a boy, my Mama made me treat the things of others better than my own stuff. I rarely need to borrow something, but when I do, I always treat it like it needs to come back better than it went out. But that is me, not the hordes of people who borrow from me. Well, maybe horde isn't quite accurate, but I do get a fair number of requests.

I have been the gamut of emotions and policies. I started out just handing my tools over and hoping they would come back. When one friend returned a belt sander with a bent roller bracket and had the gall to tell me it wasn't that way when he was using it, I went to a no tools for nobody policy.

Now it is like this. If someone wants to borrow a tool, they are welcome to it. I am very straightforward that they are expensive, and in some cases delicate. I am not obligated to provide consumable items such as paper, blades, bits, whatever. If they want to borrow it, they will supply what they need if they need it. If that is too onerous a restriction, then no one is forcing them to take the tool.

You have an added complication in that you have an established pattern and habit here, and it is going to be tough to break, probably for everyone. This is when you will find out who is truly a friend and who is a sponging mooch. Just tell the petitioner matter of factly that he is welcome to borrow the tool, but that he needs to provide the proper blade for his application, one which you conveniently do not have. This is in fact true, regardless of the application, since it is his and not yours. If he presses you, tell him point blank (in a nice way of course) that it is costing you money and time to have the privilege of helping him out in this manner and that you would appreciate a little bit of consideration on his part. The wording on a confrontation like this (and it is a confrontation) can be a bit tricky, so you might want to rehearse it a bit before the fact.

If you friend is truly a friend, then he will understand. If he isn't, and walks away in a huff, you haven't really lost anything because you never really had it in the first place.

Bill

[Dan Mages]

I have no problems lending out tools to my friends. Some times I even help out with the project. However, if they make a habit out of borrowing a certain tool, I politely let them know that it is not that expense and the should look into purchasing one.

Dan

[Jim Becker]

There are only a very few folks that I would ever lend a tool to and they are folks who I know will treat them well and return them in the same condition as they went out. I'm a very generous person in most cases, but I do have limits that once broken, don't get repaired. In most cases, even with folks I trust, my preference would be for them to use the tool in my shop...at their own risk, of course.

I think that the situation at the top of this thread is complicated, as Bill said, by a pattern of lending over a longer period of time. But that shouldn't stop the setting of limits or even cutting things off. In fact, the offer to take the person to the store and help them pick out a tool of their own is yet another option to consider.

[Bart Leetch]

I only loan & borrow tools with 1 friend & he & I always takes care of them & return them in good condition.. We also keep an eye out for tools new & used for each other.

I would post a sign in the shop or over the entry door Tool loaning policy first 8 hours free then a nominal fee for each day there after with a check out list as to who has what & when they got it & the fact that they will supply consumables.

[Jim Becker]

I would post a sign in the shop or over the entry door Tool loaning policy first 8 hours free then a nominal fee for each day there after with a check out list as to who has what & when they got it & the fact that they will supply consumables.
This might have some legal liability ramifications...check first before you post such a sign!

[Rob Littleton]

The sign to the entry of my shop (and on the wall inside) will read:

Do NOT ask to borrow tools as a refusal may offend :-)

The original was gonna say:

Do NOT ask to borrow tools as a smack upside the head may offend........

Hmmm, may still use the original :-)

[Ian Barley]

I have one friend and shop neighbour to whom I will lend, and from whom I will borrow, certain tools. He is a joiner by trade and knows the value of tools better then I do. Other than that I do not lend and will not borrow tools. Too many bad experiences both ways.

I think that you need to start being polite but firm and establish that there will be no future tool lending. If I have the tool and want to help I would rather do the job myself than get involved in dispute over tools.

[Greg Mann]

Dave, I have not had to confront this issue myself, at least since my boys grew up and move out on their own, but I like Rob's approach using a log book. Since you have a precedent to break you can explain it as having had a few bad experiences, maybe forgetting who borrowed a tool, and you now want to keep track for everyone's sake. This will demonstrate that your tools are important to you and allow some dialogue without too much confrontation. Only you can determine how otherwise equitable your relationships are. You mentioned trading muscle. You made need to factor in whether you have gotten more than you have given, but generally speaking, good friend never keep score. They just kind of know where they stand with each other. I have friends who have done so much to help me over the years that they could ruin a prized tool and I would still be way ahead. Of course, those are the same guys that would never do that. Good luck in resolving this.

Greg

[Jack Wood]

I have one neighbor who I will loan tools to, but only one. Before I got my shop built he helped me a lot with help and loaning me his tools to build it. He is a "handyman" by trade and knows the value of a tool goes beyond it's monetary value. In addition anytime I borrowed a tool I gave it back clean and with new blades, belts etc. I loaned a skill saw out one time and it came back with black tar on it and I asked the guy what it was from and he casually told me he used it to cut out a hole in his roof for a vent!:eek: There were missing carbide teeth and those left looked like they wouldn't cut butter. He didn't even try to offer to buy a new blade, just gave it back with the shingle tar and dull blade and said "thanks, I might need it again in a day or two." :mad: The next time I told him to go to the local rental place as I didn't want him to be using my tools and cut his hand off. He was miffed at that, and wouldn't talk to me for a while, oh well. You will find out a lot about someone when you tell them you won't loan them a tool.

[Chad Pater]

Like was said before, it's easier to start with a policy then to start one half way threw...I'd try the log book idea. If a new neighbor asks, start out with a policy...good luck

By the way, even though this is a rough situation for you,others here are learning a bunch from it. People who haven't loan out there tools yet now will think about it (me included) ... and hopefully newbes will rethink their own borrowing from now on

[Paul Downes]

I will loan out tools to friends who are RESPONSIBLE. I always make it clear that I expect them returned in like condition. Consumables are the problem of the borrower. If it gets broken, it gets replaced or fixed.
I spent the morning welding up heavy duty hinge/knockdown pins for the sides of a car hauler trailer I borrowed from a friend. It was screwed togeather and a pain in the a** to take the sides off. I also bumped out the dents in the fenders and repainted those areas, and welded on a better license plate holder. I don't think I will have a problem borrowing the trailer in the future.
My only problem is remembering who has what so I'm planning to have a sign out clipboard in the shop in the future. It's nice not having to buy one of everything. There are a few slobs who have lost their priveliges. I think the benefits far outweigh the occaisional problem.
I am part of a great network of friends who help each other out. When I need to re-roof the house or barn, I just make a few phone calls and make sure there is plenty of food and drink ready. We all save each other lots of money and have a good time working together. It's a good thing for the kids to experiance, and they benifit from many teachers.