An argument for hand planes....educate the newb.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

Okay....so I have some idea, but aside from the simple joy of working with hand tools, explain to me the true niche that hand planes fall into that you just can't cover with power tools. Between power jointers, planers, drum sanders, and other electric handheld tools, make an argument to me that justifies the need for hand planes. :D (this IS a serious inquiry)

[Bill Houghton]

Imagine you've got to fit a board into a space, and you need to remove just a bit from the edge, slightly different on one end than the other. Yes, you can do it with a power jointer, or a router with the right jig, or a belt sander - you can also mess it up amazingly quickly with those tools.

With a hand plane, you can do it accurately; and often as quickly as the setup would take for many power tool approaches.

There are lots of other examples, but I wanted to get the conversation started.

[Ben Rafael]

Hand planes can leave a finish ready surface. Power tools cannot.
While sanding can leave a decent surface, in no way can it beat a surface that is prepped with a good plane.

[Brian Kent]

Control of material removal in specific places on a face or edge.

Ability to trim the end of a board without moving the board.

Adjusting the fit of boards just before or after assembly.

Quality of final finish beyond that of sanding.

[Michael Sobik]

For me the argument breaks down like this: power tools are fast, hand tools offer control. For detail work, you just can't beat planes. I use them mostly for trimming and final fitting. I cut parts close to length on the power miter box, then make them exactly square and clean on the shooting board. You can make assemblies then flush them up as a unit, like the tops of a drawer. How would you make a tight fitting drawer without a plane? You can remove 0.001" with a plane, and remove it with precision. I can't think of a power tool that can do that.

[Tri Hoang]

./rant
Personally, I turn to hand tools to minimize the amount of dust and noise generated from my workshop. It is now possible to work early mornings or late nights without disturbing other family members.

Most power tools fall between coarse & medium tools, leaving one with lots of sanding. Hand tools can pretty much get you to the finish. They are relatively safer as well.

For those who enjoy both the process as well as the product, hand tools will lengthen that enjoyment time...for about the same amount of money/materials.

High quality hand tools don't depreciate as much as power tools. They don't take much space. They are easier to sell if one changes his mind(ship anywhere since most are relatively light).

Hand tools force beginners to acquire valuable skills rather than depending on quality/amount of gadgets.

./done

[Rick Erickson]

Precision: There is no way you can get precision with power tools (at least ones available to the normal consumer). The accuracy you can get with hand tools is unsurpassed.

Beauty: No power tool (that I'm aware) can even come close to the look of a hand-cut dovetail with a sliver-sized pin. Put some finish on a nicely figured piece of wood smoothed with a hand plane and on wood sanded with paper (pick your grit). The beauty of the grain from the planed wood is without question better (see finish below).

Finish: How many grits of sandpaper would you have to go through to obtain the smoothness (and flatness - which by the way isn't possible) of a #4.

Peace and Quite: Try one day in the shop without electricity. Your ears and nerves will thank you. The sound of a sub-thou shaving coming off the end of a piece of hard maple is music to your ears compared to the loud chatter of the jointer (not to mention you will NEVER get a sub-thou shaving from a power jointer).

Health and Safety: How many times have you blown your nose after a long day in the shop and be able to determine what type of wood you used that day. I love my table saw, jointer, router table and band saw but man are they scary. 9 times out of 10 I will reach for my #8 to joint the edge of my panels for glue. My power jointer can't get the accuracy that I'm looking for for glue-ups (see precision above).

Satisfaction: There is nothing more satisfying then hand joinery. A hand cut dovetail is beautiful. A mitered edge shot with a low-angle jack and shooting board has an amazingly accurate fit (see precision above).


This is a good start but I'm sure I could come up with about a thousand other reasons :)

[glenn bradley]

You really probably shouldn't have posted this in this sub-forum ;-) There are some serious Galoots here who think 'we of the tailed tool' are a bit off.

Power tools offer speed and accuracy. A hand plane is not he only method of achieving a finish ready surface. Noise and dust can be fun. Let's see what else ;-)

I believe Brian Kent gave a good answer except for the finish ready surface part. Anyone who has burnished ebony peg heads knows this is nowhere for a metal cutter, untailed or otherwise. Now flat surfaces, hand beading and such; I'm with him on that.

All this aside, I am a woodworker and no better or worse for having a shoulder plane and a router table. Pass on the cheap "starter" planes and get yourself (or borrow) a good bench plane and shoulder plane (beware, the slope starts here). If you assemble your pieces with anything besides biscuits and pocket screws (I use both as well an M&T, etc.) you will immediately see WHY these (and other) hand tools are so indispensable.

[Mark Singer]

I use both power and hand tools. Without the handtools my work would be mediocre at best

[Rick Cicciarelli]

Actually I posted this in this sub forum for a reason...I figured I'd get the most heartfelt answers. This is about what I figured. Now the problem is the fact that I only like the best tools...and LN are quite pricey. The other problem is knowing where to start. Seems everyone has differing opinions on this. As a newb, it seems like an adjustable throat low angle block plane, a #4, and a #8 are the three to start with which would pretty much cover the widest range of tasks, perhaps following it up with some kind of shoulder plane? Correct me if I am wrong.

[scott spencer]

Hand planes are great for working a large area that won't fit through a planer or jointer, or a surface that's part of an existing structure that you don't want to take apart....workbench, table top, etc.

[mike holden]

Rick,
Take 0.002" off a surface.

The only tool that will do it neatly and easily is a handplane.

When are you going to work that close? - any joint.

Mike

[Ben Rafael]

Rick,
If the LN are too pricey for you then check out Lee Valley. They make excellent planes and are somewhat cheaper in price. I have both and I more than happy with them.

[Dan Karachio]

If he isn't sold than I don't know what you could say. I find it interesting that tolerances and super minute measurements/adjustments are the domain of the hand tools. It's pretty cool when you think about it. As someone now using hand planes for many of the things listed above, this is fun (chisels and scrapers too). I think too often people think the hand tool guys are just stubborn Luddites stuck in a time warp. I admit it, I thought that at first, but now am educated a bit. As Bush might ask, "Is our power tool users learning?"

[Wilbur Pan]

The other problem is knowing where to start. Seems everyone has differing opinions on this. As a newb, it seems like an adjustable throat low angle block plane, a #4, and a #8 are the three to start with which would pretty much cover the widest range of tasks, perhaps following it up with some kind of shoulder plane? Correct me if I am wrong.

Those planes (including the shoulder plane) will cover a great deal of woodworking tasks. With that selection, you can flatten and smooth boards larger than your current jointer and planer can handle to a degree that you can't get with sanding, edge joint boards, get a precision fit on mortise and tenon joints, shoot miters, trim endgrain, clean up an assembled dovetail joint, and probably some other tasks that I can't think of right now.

Although I'd rather have a #7 than a #8, but that's just me.

As to the cost, consider this: running up the tab for those four planes on the Lie-Nielsen website comes to $1135. (I picked the #102 block plane since you don't really need the adjustable throat, and the medium shoulder plane.) Plus, you'll need a method of sharpening if you don't have one already. Just to really bias this total against the hand tool side, I'll toss in a set of Shapton stones and the flattening plate for an additional $488, bringing our grand total to $1625.

Now, this is quite a chunk of change, even in non-recessionary times. But the cost of power tools that would be able to accomplish these tasks would be far more than $1625, and that's buying low to medium end import machines, whereas this selection of hand tools is close to top of the line. And you still wouldn't have the precision that you would have by using hand planes.

[Joel Runyan]

Short version:

When the shaving in my calipers reads .01mm, and it seems like I could see my reflection in the wood if I could just get the angle right...


Rant:

It's all about ends. I never felt that there was much virtue in singing "This didn't take me much sweat or time at all, and now I get to sell it!" Machines are necessary to make money today, but the comparable hand skills seem to ask much more of a man, and are consequently more impressive in my eyes, and more indicative of the art. There's obviously a limit to that. It might be impressive if a man were able to build a perfect highboy wielding only a dull rock, his fingernails and a horse carcass, but I think most would say he was succeeding in spite of his tools and not because of them. (On the other hand, I can imagine sometime in the future one will just lay some boards on a table, press a button, and a few minutes later, that same highboy will pop out at the other end of the shop. What do we call the button pusher?)

In any case, I believe traditional (insomuch as the last few centuries are concerned) handtools are the perfect marriage of the human body and our capacity for invention. They get us as close as possible to the wood while still allowing us to work it efficiently. There's no better example of this than the handplane.

[Jim Koepke]

Sometimes the tight fit trimming precision is what it is all about.

Sometimes it is what can be done with the rough stuff. Today I had to put a back on a fire wood bin. The wood I wanted to use was 3/8 thin scrap salvaged from a pallet. It was warped and rough. It did not need to be dimensionally flat, but I wanted it somewhat smoother and a little better looking. As much cup as some of the pieces had, a joiner or power planer would have been a tough job. A few swipes each with a wide plane had them acceptable in little time.

Though Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley both make excellent tools, they are a little rich for my blood. They do have good resale value if you change your mind. So do old Stanley/Bailey and especially the Stanley Bedrock planes. If you do not mind the idea about having to learn the in and outs of rehabilitating the old tools, they can be had fairly inexpensively. No matter what you settle on, you will need to learn to sharpen blades. There are also a few reputable dealers of old Stanley planes that for a little more you can get a plane that does not need rehab work.

If you go the old plane route, you may as well learn a few of the tricks in the fine art of fettling, because some day you will want to play with the frog and adjust the throat.

I joke with people about using hand tools because mistakes are made slower.

jim

[David Gendron]

I'll make it short, Peacefullness, Joy, and beauty of the wood!!!
David

[Mike Null]

I agree with David. I have all the power stuff but I'd rather use the plane. There is nothing in woodworking that matches the feel, the sound and the look of a planed surface. Taking off a paper thin ribbon of wood is one of the joys of woodworking.

[Eric Brown]

Therapy. Sometimes I plane just for the sheer pleasure. Kinda like whittlin' I suppose. When I do make something with handtools, wheneverI look at it there is a special bond, an appreciation of the wood itself. With handtools you work with the wood, you don't get that kind of intimate feeling with power tools.

Eric

[Will Blick]

Ditto on the therapy.....

I would have not dreamed of saying that 5 years ago....

You Neanders are the best... love the reasonings... all make sense, no sarcasm...

I will add one... edge jointing boards to be glued up...
Yep, a power jointer will get you close enough for most people....but if clamp the boards together and clean up the machine marks with a jointer plane with a fence, you also get the added benefit of having the two boards perfectly aligned when glued as any slight errors offset each other.

[Dave Spaeder]

When it's about process, there really isn't anything like using a handplane. I think the only thing that gets me through the last phases of a project (glue-up, finishing) is the curiosity I feel about seeing the final product. But I much prefer the earlier stages where I'm shaping the individual pieces and doing the joinery. That's what keeps me going. And I love moving from handplane to handplane as I shape a piece, sometimes choosing logically according to practice, sometimes just by whim.

Other people have already pointed out the great benefits in control, contact, and quiet that using handplanes offers. For me, it's all that and great fun, too.

[David Keller NC]

"This is about what I figured. Now the problem is the fact that I only like the best tools...and LN are quite pricey."

I guess I get to repeat this a lot, but no they're not. LN and LV planes are very much middle of the road, price-wise. The only reason they look expensive is comparing them to an inappropriate standard - either unworkable junk produced abroad by Stanley and others, and the rather vast reserve of antiques from the teens, 20's and 1930's when every carpenter had a hand plane in his tool box, and used them.

These same handplanes from the early 20th century cost just as much, if not considerably more than, a LV or LN plane in equivalent wages. However, because there's not nearly as much demand for them on the professional side of things, and the supply is huge, an antique can be had for next to nothing.

However, to get the same performance and features out of an antique, you have to compare them to Stanley's Bedrock line of planes, and you will have to include a thicker replacement blade. Because of their collector's value, a antique Bedrock is a much more expensive plane, and by the time you figure in the replacement blade, you will be quite close to the price of a new Lie Nielsen.

[Chris Padilla]

Hit eBay...you might get lucky and get a good price on a slighly used LN or LV handplane.

[Mark Roderick]

All the reasons above are correct. But to look at it from a different direction, you might ask yourself why every maker of fine furniture uses hand planes (typically along with power tools). The reason they're doing it isn't because they're trying to be cool or old-fashioned or something, or even that they all hate the dust and noise of powered tools. The reason they're doing it is because hand planes work, meaning they do a job no other tool does nearly as well. And if it works for them, why wouldn't it work for you?

[John Messinger]

I very much like Wilber Pans analysis. I used a jointer once and lost any desire to own one. They are loud, very dusty, and take up a lot of space for essentially one purpose. I never had a need to joint many boards a day and thus could never justify the space or dollar cost.

Hand planes are far more versitile and can be used for many more purposes. I have a #8 Stanley "Jointer" plane which I use a lot. A #6 Stanley "Fore" which I have resharpened the blade to use as a scrub plane. I have 3 or 4 Stanley "Jack" planes which I almost never use. I carry a LN low angle block plane in my apron and use it constantly. I have a LN shoulder plane and a couple others that are very nice and I use them frequently, but I don't consider them necessary.

[David White II]

Hit eBay...you might get lucky and get a good price on a slighly used LN or LV handplane.

Or you'll be reassured by how well they seem to hold their value :)

[James Carmichael]

I used a jointer once and lost any desire to own one. They are loud, very dusty, and take up a lot of space for essentially one purpose.

I gotta take some issue with that comment. Jointers are not especially noisy or dusty as stationary power tools go. You wanna ruin your hearing? Try a lunchbox planer with that universal motor! A jointer with DC does not produce that much dust, and it's captured much easier than with a table saw or other tools.

A 6"-8" jointer does not have an enormous footprint. Mine's on a mobile base and fits neatly against the wall.

I love working with hand tools as much as anyone, but I'd sure hate to have face-joint very many boards without a power jointer.

[John Messinger]

Jointers are not especially noisy or dusty as stationary power tools go.
A 6"-8" jointer does not have an enormous footprint. Mine's on a mobile base and fits neatly against the wall.Its all relative. IMHO Too much for my purposes.


... but I'd sure hate to have face-joint very many boards without a power jointer. Fair enough. But you are definately not a Neanderthal! :p