Veneered bow front drawers

[Jim Tobias]

Need some advice from the voices of experience. I am about to start building a couple of bedside tables with 3 drawers in each. The cabinet frame and side panels will be painted poplar. I plan to veneer (vacuum bag) the bow front drawers and the top panel. My question is about the substrate for the bow front drawers. The 3 drawers in each will be 4" , 6" and 8" tall. I have been reading a lot on this and it seems that there are several ways to approach this:
1- Laminate thin pieces into the curved form to create the substrate for the drawer and then veneer the form in the vacuum bag(with proper support for the shape)
2- Cut the shapes (bow)on the bandsaw from a solid piece of poplar and then veneer to it in the vacuum bag. This measn veneers to the face grain of the poplar.
3- Cut several pieces of 1" think poplar and glue them face grain to face grain to create the necessary height of the drawers. Then, cut the bow shape on the bandsaw and smooth and venner from there.

My concerns are:
A)In method #2 , will I have issues with expansion of the poplar across the face of 4" - 8" faces with the veneer?
B)I want to cut half blind dovetails on the drawers and although it is possible, it is more difficult if I begin wiht a curved surface as in method #1.
C) Will this method prevent any issues wiht expansion of the drawer face? This method puts edge grain on the face from several stacked 1" pieces.
One day I will learn to cut hand cut dovetails, but that learning curve is not "in the cards" for this project. So, can I get some pros and cons of the above methods (or of any other methods) that might may the process simpler?

Thanks in advance,

Jim

[David DeCristoforo]

Of your three possible methods, I would go with 3. What you will be doing (with method 2 also) is making a "lumber core" that you can veneer. As with any other core, you would want crossbanding veneers under the face veneers. This method has been used for many years and is "tried and true". The reason I suggest "#3 over #2 is that you can machine your dovetails with the stock still square and then cut your curves.

[Frank Drew]

Jim,

With the proper shaped form (could be made out of MDF ) you could do all of step #1 in one go, with enough laminates plus the face veneer to add up to your desired thickness glued up at once. You can buy 1/16" construction veneer in a variety of woods for this, or resaw your own. I'd recommend a slow setting glue such as Weldwood's Plastic Resin to give yourself some working time.

The resulting lamination can be treated as solid wood when it comes to your drawer side joinery, as could methods 2 & 3.

If the amount of curve isn't too much, #2 would work; too much curve and the poplar start getting into the end grain towards the ends, which isn't as good a surface for veneering as face or side grain. With this method, you could leave the back flat until you've done all the cutting and joinery; some leave it flat even after that but I don't think that looks as good as when the inside is curved to match the outer face. This would be my least preferred method.

In your plan #3, you could cut the pieces of poplar into slightly curved bricks before laying them up (this needs a full-sized drawing for design and layout, not a bad thing to have in any case), thus getting your needed height and curve in the same operation, while avoiding the end grain issues I mentioned above; clean up and veneer in a bag or with hot glue and a veneer hammer. Again, treat as solid wood when done. I haven't found it necessary to veneer the backs of brick lays, but a counter veneer under your face veneer would help hide the joints between the "bricks".

To understand your question about dovetailing, are you asking if these drawer faces would lend themselves to machine dovetailing? Probably only method #2, and only before any curve was cut. I'd prefer hand cut, though; it's a little tricker with curved stock, but once you have your drawer fronts cut to length and with ends cut parallel to one another and to the case sides, it mostly a matter of holding the material; the sides and drawer back are cut as normal.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

David, couldn't the dovetailing be done with everything square in option 2 as well?

I'd consider a 4th option as well maybe, bending ply. Make a bending ply sandwich/backer veneer sandwich and put it in the bag with the form. After the glue sets, you get a very solid piece. Apply the face veneer with no form in the bag. Works very well, and you could use the form to hold the piece to cut the dovetails maybe. The grain on bending ply all runs one way, with the exception of one layer so the grain would show as vertical when you cut the dovetails. Just an option, maybe not the best for you, but it is easy.

For your drawer fronts, solid core would give you a good solid traditional approach. I guess I'd try option #2, and rig a jig for the dovetails.

[Thomas S Stockton]

I use method one a lot. The core is italian bending poplar and bending luan. Works great, I usually bend the core first, cut it close to size usually about 1/16" to 1/8" oversize and edgeband it with solid wood. You can then veneer it in the press using the same form. I prefer this over resawing thin strips because I get very little spring back since the ply holds it shape very well.
The first picture is of some doors and drawer fronts done in the bending poplar.
The second picture shows some cabinet sides bent using both bending polar and bending luan, you can see the cores in the top 2 pieces
The third picture shows the bending form and a bent drawer front, I used bending poplar for this project.
Usually when I do a curved drawer like this the drawer side is splined into the front instead of dovetailed ( the back is dovetailed) if you want dovetails I would use method 1 or 2.
Tom

[David DeCristoforo]

"David, couldn't the dovetailing be done with everything square in option 2 as well?"

Not if he cuts the curved pieces before he laminates them.

[Jim Tobias]

Thanks for all of the advice. I knew I could count on the experience of the creek.
It seems to me that method #3 is my best bet. Doing it that way I can:
A) Take away any worry about expansion of the substrate.
B) I can cut the half blind dovetails on the Leigh Jig while the piece is flat and square. The width of the drawers is 21" and the arc is only 21.284 so it is a very gentle bow.
C) After cutting dovetails, I will bandsaw the curves (front and back) and smooth for veneer. I assume that on this solid piece, I would NOT need to veneer the inside curve of the drawer front??
D) After cutting curves, I would veneer the faces of all of the drawers in the vacuum bag with form/support for the back of the drawers faces.

Do you see any "hiccups" in this plan??

Thanks again for the advice,
Jim

[David DeCristoforo]

Veneer both sides! The very best thing would be to "counter veneer" both sides and then face veneer over that. Also after your DTs are cut you will have voids. I would make temporary "plugs" to fill them with when they go into the vacuum bag. Don't need to be real close fitting or anything... just something to keep the bag from getting sucked into the voids.

[Jim Tobias]

Dave,
Thanks for the "Fill the void tip" before putting in bag. I would not have thought of that and maybe have damaged the bag.
By "counter veneer", do you mean put a veneer(face and inside) opposite to the grain of the drawer front substrate and then put the "show" veneer on the face only??
Thanks,
Jim

[David DeCristoforo]

"By "counter veneer", do you mean..."

What you said except that you should also apply a "face" veneer to the back even though it is not really the "face" and does not need to be "show quality" veneer. The "goal" here is balance. Always treat both sides the same. That will provide the highest degree of stability.

[Jim Tobias]

Again, Thanks for all of the suggestions. Now, if I can just get these built in a couple of months!!

Jim