Handcut Dovetail Question

[John Czaplicki]

I apologize in advance if this questions has been asked before, or just plain foolish.....I am a relative novice at cutting dovetails, but I've been practicing and getting better.

The first step in most of the information I've read is to mark the ends of the board with marking gauge or knive, cutting the wood fibers 1/32" or so. I undertand the usefulness of this line in cutting your joint, but it leaves a mark on your finished product if you don't take steps to remove it. You could of course use a pencil line. You would lose the benefits of the cut line, but avoid the noticable marks on the finished product.

I've noticed several fine pieces of furniture where dove tails are used for the carcass assembly, or prominently exposed otherwise, and the scribe line is very clear and visible. I'm not sure if I like that feature or not.....I suppose it depends upon the application.

Now for my questions......Is this known to be a signature of hand cut joinery? Inidividual statement so no one thinks they used a router jig? do some people sand them off or account for them in some other way?

Thanks in advance for your input.

[John Keeton]

John, I am new to the handcut dovetail game. But on the scribe line, most of the instructional materials suggest leaving the side of the drawer (the tails) a little proud of the pin stock (drawer front) and then planing the sides flush in the process of fitting the drawer - thereby removing the line.

But, some folks like the scribe lines - as you say, a signature mark of handcraft. Personally, they don't bother me as I have seen them on several old pieces.

[Wilbur Pan]

What John said. He nailed it.

[Frank Drew]

John,

On case work with dovetails showing, I'd probably get rid of the scribe lines just as part of the cleaning up process; I don't worry about them on drawer sides.

Most people who hand-cut their dovetails take some pains not to make them look like machine cut, so leaving the scribe lines would be superfluous. That said, I wouldn't think less of, say, Keller jig cut dovetails on something like a blanket chest.

[David Keller NC]

"Now for my questions......Is this known to be a signature of hand cut joinery?"

The answer is yes. It is one of the principal ways to determine if an antique was made in the age of handwork - it was an almost universal practice to leave the scribe line on the sides of drawers. There are some exceptions, but they are rare.

For a modern piece, it's a matter of preference. In my personal opinion, they should be left on an 18th or early 19th century reproduction, just as the originals have them. One a modern, studio-styled piece, I think it's a personal preference, though I'd note that it makes sense to differentiate your work from that produced in a factory, since you're likely going to be charging (a lot) more for it.

[Andrew Hughes]

I try to scribe my line lite.Then when i clean up the pins and tails with a hand plane hopefully the line will be removed.Some time it does and sometimes not.I stop when the sides look good and flat.

[Greg Campbell]

I think it's a matter of personal preference.

I plane out the scribe lines on my dovetails. If you were going to remove the line, I suggest you only scribe deep enough to mark the line; 1/32" seems kinda deep and would be harder to plane out.

You can also give dovetails a handmade look by varying the spacing, making the pins narrower, using a higher pitch for the tails/pins (i.e. 1:8), playing around with pin spacing pattern, etc.

Bottom line, it's beautiful joinery with or without the scribe line.

[Dave Samborski]

Not trying to hijack the thread here, but as long as we're on the subject of dovetails,

Is there any advantage to making dovetails with such small pins and wide tails? I see pictures of some pins with near points on the case corners.
Aren't equal proportioned pins & tails stronger?

[Andrew Hughes]

I agree with Greg its a matter of choice.

Evenly spaced tails and pins would be stronger but may not look right.Thin pins slicing through the tails look delicate and are classic.Evenly spaced kinda chunky.

When I start a new project I like to make dovetail box.This give me a chance to become acquainted with the wood.How does it plane?How do the chisels hold?Is it stable to work?And most am i allergic?I consider many things before i start building.

[John Keeton]

Andrew, let me just comment that those are some beautiful dovetails! With apologies to the OP for a diversion...

[David Keller NC]

"Is there any advantage to making dovetails with such small pins and wide tails? I see pictures of some pins with near points on the case corners.
Aren't equal proportioned pins & tails stronger?"

In theory, yes. In actual practice, probably not. It's hard to know what the failure point will be 100 years down the road, but with either spacing, the surface area for glue is about the same. The disadvantage with small pins is that the wood itself may fracture across the small cross-sectional area. However, the typical practice when making drawers is to make the fronts out of a hard (and strong) wood, and the sides out of a soft secondary wood. The pins go in the hardwood, and the tails in the secondary wood, so in a sense its good practice to make the largest cross sectional area in the softwood. In this respect it may well be that small pins/large tails in such a situation are actually stronger.

[Ben Rafael]

I've seen award winning furniture with the scribe marks.
Personally, I dont like them and I make very lite scribe lines in my work and they go away when I sand or plane before applying finish.
On another note, you can add scribe lines to machine made dovetails and fool people.:D:D

[Mark Singer]

It is really a question of style and preference . Once the basics of dovetailing are learned then the design and spacing of pins, paring pins, large tails and whether to leave the scribe lines becomes the detail choices. To start with a half pin, the ratio of the pins 6 to1 or 8 to 1 are asthetic decisions. Then there are mitered doves, houndstooth and an almost infinite variety of options.
In the end you are making a primitive joint with good mechanical properties so enjoy!! If it looks artistic and hand made yet well fitting ....your there