Can't rip hard maple on my TS

[Justin Crabtree]

I'm having difficulties ripping 4/4 hard maple on my TS (Bosch 4001 w/ Freud glue line rip blade *using the Grr-ripper*). I can't seem to get a straight line when ripping. I don't have much of a problem cutting softer woods straight, but on hard maple it always seems to veer. Could it be that my TS is underpowered for cutting hard maple?

I was considering trying to make some sort of ripping sled in hopes that maybe it would help control the cut while also keeping safety in mind. Are there any ripping sleds that would work if i'm only ripping 20" long boards?

Also, would a decent band saw (14") ($600-800 range) be better for ripping hard maple if i'm ripping often? I'm starting a small cutting board business as a hobby so I will be making repeated 1.25" wide strips on 4/4 hard maple.

Here is what i'm making, but i'd like to be a little more efficient with the whole process.

http://www.havokclothing.com/images/ebay/cutboard1.jpg

[Chris Schumann]

I'm still pretty new, but be sure your fence and blade are parallel, and that you're feeding the board straight. That last part can be really difficult with long boards... but 20" should not be an issue.

If your saw is staying at a good speed, then it has enough power.

One potential source of problems is case-hardened wood, where the exterior part of the board is dry but the interior is still wet; or reaction wood. Either can warp as it's being cut, with potentially hazardous consequences.

Any bandsaw should cut through an inch of maple. It won't be as smooth as your glue line blade, but it could save you a lot of lumber as the kerf is a lot smaller. (Ten cuts on the table saw eats an entire strip.)

I'm still learning to use my tools, and I'm learning that each species (or even each BATCH of lumber!) has its own feel that just becomes second nature when you've been doing it long enough.

[Eddie Kaden]

You might try building a tablesaw sled. If you do a search there are several threads on here with plans and examples.

[Brent Leonard]

Use a splitter maybe? Or a featherboard, ahead of the blade to keep the stock tight to the fence? Do you have a good straight edge on the stock that is against the rip fence? Any cup or twist to the stock?

As was mentioned, is everything tight (tolerances) on the saw?

You shouldn't have a problem cutting 4/4 maple.

[Alan Schwabacher]

A bandsaw is used in order to avoid kickback, but if you have a good straight reference edge to ride along the fence, a tablesaw should give very straight cuts, much smoother and faster than the bandsaw. Something is wrong if yours deviates. It could be dangerous to use the saw if it's misaligned.

A tablesaw sled is usually used for crosscuts. The sliding tables useful for ripping are pretty big things.

I think it would be wise to get someone to help you tune up your saw, and to go over the things to watch out for as you use it. A book (e.g. Kelly Mehler's Tablesaw book) could also be useful.

[scott spencer]

Maple can be tough stuff but your saw should have plenty of power for that cut. When you used the term "difficulties", do you mean laboring the saw or is just a matter of the piece veering away from the fence? Is your Freud "GLR" a 30T LM74 or a 24T ripper? The 30T will pose more resistance. A 24T thin kerf ripper should cut through it fairly easily. Also, is the stock flat and straight prior to the cut? It could also be that your maple is reactive. Be sure you're blade/fence alignment is good, the throat plate is flat and stiff, put a well aligned splitter in place, and use a featherboard in front of the blade if possible. If the saw is laboring, try raising the blade a little higher.

[Chris Schumann]

Taken from another recent thread here...
- Your fence could have a curve, or not be plumb along the entire height you need.
- Your trunnions could be loose, even a little.

[george wilson]

Have you tried cutting only part way through the maple and ripping it in 2 or 3 successively deeper cuts? Maybe take a 1/2" deep cut,flip the board,and do the same on the opposite side,raise the blade and repeat?If you do this it probably would help the blade to stay straighter.

[Frank Drew]

Justin,

Are you using a good, sharp ripping blade? A poor quality blade, or one not meant specifically for ripping, could cause the problems you're having.

[Joe Scharle]

I've seen that class saw discussed often for fence deflection problems. Try clamping the back end and see if that helps.

[Lee Schierer]

Your saw is rated at 4 Hp, but the motor amps say it is only 2-1/2 Hp at best. Cutting hard maple is a lot of work for a saw.

If you haven't checked the alignment do so. Saws are rarely precisely aligned by the factory.

As others have suggested, try making the cut in two passes. A thin kerf blade will work better for ripping. If you are forcing the cut you are likely to get an uneven cut, let the blade do the cutting staying at the highest rpm possible. If you feed steady, never stopping you shouldn't get any burn marks if you saw is well aligned.

A band saw will cut the wood, but you will not have a glueable surface and will need a jointing operation.

[Nissim Avrahami]

After you'll check all the alignments etc, if you still have a problem with straight cut....

Rise the blade to maximum height...USE the riving knife (splitter) and the BLADE GUARD and try to rip again...

When the blade is at full height, the cut is the cleanest, the motor power required is the lowest (faster feeding rate) and the blade is coolest (no twisting of the blade or burn marks).

You just have to remember one thing....no fingers at least 6" around the blade...

BTW - the blade on the pics is Makita 100 tooth and I use it also for ripping but HIGH....

Regards
niki

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Picture%20frame%20WIP/03.jpg


http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Picture%20frame%20WIP/04.jpg

[John Thompson]

"I don't have much of a problem cutting softer woods straight, but on hard maple it always seems to veer".

Describe much.. Can you cut softer wood straight or not? If so.. logic tells me the alignment is not the issue as if one cut is straight and the other not... that would send me elsewhere to solve the mystery.


"Could it be that my TS is underpowered for cutting hard maple"?

Could be... you didn't mention the type blade (TK or full kerf).. if the saw seemed to bog.. did you get burn marks and number of teeth... if using the in-appropriate blade or the saw is under-powered.. maple will put up a nasty fight that would not be so noticeable on soft-wood as the fibers sever easier.

Sarge...

[dan lemkin]

I had this saw until a few weeks ago... It is underpowered. I noticed a dramatic difference between it and the contractor SS.

My fence was really off. When I clamped it and measured from front and back of blade, it was off a 1/16". Whenever I was making real cuts, I had to manually align it using a ruler... All my cuts had burn marks, confirming the lack of parallelism.

I was not able to figure out how to true up the fence. (There are no adjustment screws... guess you could bend it) This was the primary reason for my upgrade.

[Howard Acheson]

A board pulling away from the fence when ripping is a symptom of a saw that is in need alignment or sometime it's a blade that needs sharpening.

When was the last time you checked you blades parallelism to the miter slot and then the parallelism of your fence to the miter slot? When was the last time you had your blade sharpened?

Here is the low tech, low cost way to align a tablesaw that I learned maybe forty years ago and use to teach to my students.

Make 3/4 x 3/4 x 12" hardwood stick. Drill a hole somewhat centered in one end and insert a brass #8 x 1" round head fine thread machine screw about half way. UNPLUG THE SAW. Raise the blade completely up. Clamp this board in your miter gauge (if you determine that there is some slop in your slot to miter gauge, use a playing card to take up the slop) so the screw head just about touches the blade at the front. Now rotate the blade by hand and determine which tooth is the closest. Adjust the screw in or out until it just touches this tooth. Mark this tooth. Rotate the blade so the tooth is now at the back of the table and move the miter gauge/stick assembly to the back and see if it touches the marked tooth to the same extent. If it doesn't, adjust the trunnion (if a contractor saw) or the tabletop (if a cabinet saw) until it does.

For a contractor saw, first use a small c-clamp on the rear trunnion and cradle to keep the assembly from moving. Then loosen the two rear trunnion bolts and one front trunnion bolt. Slightly loosen the other front trunnion bolt and use a stick to tap the trunnion until the blade and screw lightly touch. The blade does not move directly around the center so you will need to repeatedly go back to the front of the blade, readjust the screw, and then again measure the back. Be sure to check after tightening the trunnion as the trunnion frequently moves when being tightened.

For cabinet saws, loosen the bolts that hold the tabletop and tap one corner until things come into alignment.

The same adjustment gauge can be used to set the fence parallel to the miter slot. Slide the miter gauge to the front of the table and move the fence over to the screw head and insert a playing card between the screw head and the fence just so you can move the card as it touches both the fence and the screw head. Now move the miter gauge to the back of the table and see if you have the same feel when you insert the card. I like my fence absolutely parallel--if you want to have a slight opening to the fence, you can easily estimate the opening by adding a thickness of paper to the card.

I always show my students with a dial gauge that their adjustments are within .001 - .002.

You can also use the same gauge to measure blade runout by using a $5.00 feeler gauge.

Finally, after you are satisfied with the above adjustments, check the position of the splitter to make sure it is exactly in line with the blade.

Bottom line, there is no need to spend more than the $0.05 for the brass screw.

[Tom Esh]

I had this saw until a few weeks ago...
I was not able to figure out how to true up the fence. (There are no adjustment screws... guess you could bend it) This was the primary reason for my upgrade.

You loosen two cap screws, align the fence, and re-tighten ...but hey if it works as an excuse to justify a new saw - go for it:D

[Darius Ferlas]

I was considering trying to make some sort of ripping sled in hopes that maybe it would help control the cut while also keeping safety in mind. Are there any ripping sleds that would work if i'm only ripping 20" long boards?

A sled that is longer than the piece you rip is not a problem. Actually, it could work to your benefit since you the sled could be already well positioned on the TS and within the miter slot before the blade hits the stock.

I made a 70" sled to rip 5/4 64" long cherry boards and it works great. I didn't make any attempts to make the sled of showcase quality. It works for my rough (pre-jointing) cuts using a cheap 40T blade and that's all I care about.

I used 1/2" veneered particle board, a couple clamps and a 3/8" by 3/4" by 70" strip pf cherry for the miter slot guide. You'll see a lot screw holes from my hit and miss readjustments of the rail (not shown, under the shameful trail of holes). The hardest part was to adjust the rail so it was perfectly straight and didn't wedge inside the TS miter slot.

[Peter Scoma]

I'm having difficulties ripping 4/4 hard maple on my TS (Bosch 4001 w/ Freud glue line rip blade *using the Grr-ripper*). I can't seem to get a straight line when ripping. I don't have much of a problem cutting softer woods straight, but on hard maple it always seems to veer. Could it be that my TS is underpowered for cutting hard maple?

I was considering trying to make some sort of ripping sled in hopes that maybe it would help control the cut while also keeping safety in mind. Are there any ripping sleds that would work if i'm only ripping 20" long boards?

Also, would a decent band saw (14") ($600-800 range) be better for ripping hard maple if i'm ripping often? I'm starting a small cutting board business as a hobby so I will be making repeated 1.25" wide strips on 4/4 hard maple.

Here is what i'm making, but i'd like to be a little more efficient with the whole process.

http://www.havokclothing.com/images/ebay/cutboard1.jpg

You are doing something wrong or you have a dull blade. The bosch is my only TS and I have no problem cutting 8/4 hard maple with a 25$ freud blade from the borg. even when feeding at a fairly brisk rate, the bosch shouldnt even bog down.

ps

[Michael O'Sullivan]

You loosen two cap screws, align the fence, and re-tighten ...but hey if it works as an excuse to justify a new saw - go for it:D

I used to have the same saw, and IIRC, the directions in the manual are very confusing for aligning the fence -- it would always shift when I tried to tighten down the screws. After fiddling with it for a while, I realized that one of the steps that seemed to come later in the directions actually had to be done before tightening those screws. Once I figured that out, the fence was pretty dead on. I liked that saw a lot.

[Myk Rian]

BTW - the blade on the pics is Makita 100 tooth and I use it also for ripping but HIGH....
Get a rip blade. 100 teeth on a blade is for cross cutting.

[Jarrod McGehee]

like Brent said, and probably other guys, I'd recommend using a splitter so you won't get kickback. the reason it may not be cutting well for you is because it's underpowered. (i didn't read too many of the posts to see what others said) What size is it? and I wouldn't use a bandsaw for what you want because you won't get as good of a glue line as you would with a TS. you could clean it up though with a jointer. good luck

[Justin Crabtree]

I went through the Bosch manual and followed all the steps for aligning everything. I'll admit that I should have done this in the first place. It turns out the fence was was off a tad and also the riving knife needed a fine adjustment. The fence is really easy to align with just the two cap screws on top of the fence...I was wondering what those were for. :)

Darius, that is exactly what I need to make. Since the maximum length i'll be ripping will be 20", I think I can work up something similar that will get the job done. Where can I find some toggle clamps like that?

Appreciate everyone's help.

[Darius Ferlas]

Darius, that is exactly what I need to make. Since the maximum length i'll be ripping will be 20", I think I can work up something similar that will get the job done. Where can I find some toggle clamps like that?
.
I got the clamps from a small local tool store (http://63.243.136.77/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=538&category_id=bd3f50c17cac54a9c151f76db5794534&). The price ($6 CDN) was less than 1/2 of what everybody else charges and they are 500 lb rated ones. They likely ship to the US but if unless you order larger quantities you may be better off getting them locally. They are also available from Leevaley (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=40056&cat=1,43838,43845) (pricey!!!) or Rockler (http://www.rockler.com/search_results.cfm?filter=toggle+clamp&submit.x=0&submit.y=0).

As for the length of the sled I'd still make it longer than 20". For stability of cut I'd probably go for something like 36 to 48" and then place your stock somewhere in the middle of the length. The only reason I made mine not much longer is that the material used was all I had available at the time.

Btw. I took the idea from somewhere on the net, of course, but I don't remember from where. Just make sure the miter slot guide that you attach underneath the sled has no play and yet gives you a fairly smooth ride.

[Justin Crabtree]

Good deal. I checked the Woodcraft website and they have them. I'll call the local Woodcraft on Monday and make sure they have them and with any luck, maybe i'll have a nice jig made up on Monday.

Appreciate the help. I'll take your advice and make one larger than my stock.

[David Keller NC]

Justin - One other comment. Assuming you've corrected the alignment issues on your rip fence, have purchased/made a featherboard to keep the stock tight against the fence on the infeed side and are still having problems, you may have an issue with the blade flexing during the cut. Narrow-kerf blades in very hard wood sometimes do this, particularly with a fast feed rate, and the solution is to purchase and install a blade stabilizer. These are nothing more than two circular pieces of metal that press on either side of the blade, and are usually inexpensive.

[David DeCristoforo]

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here by suggesting that you will never get the kind of results you want cutting hard maple on a saw like the Bosh 4100. For one thing, it is totally underpowered (If this saw's motor puts out four HP, I will eat it). Also, direct drive saws are much more difficult to control, adjust and "fine tune" that belt driven saws. This "machine" is in a class of tool that until recently did not even exist. Now the BORGs are full of them. Inexpensive (so sorry but I mean "cheap") plastic, direct drive saws with flimsy aluminum fences and over-rated motors. OK, I realize that the $4 -600 you have to lay down for one of these saws does not seem "cheap" to most people. But for a table saw? Again so sorry, but that's cheap.

One time my brother in law was in my shop and I was routing some edges. "You make that look so easy." he said. "Well it is easy" I replied. "Not for me." he answered. So I got to talking with him about how he was doing things and what tools he was using. It turned out he had a very inexpensive router from a well known but here un-named retailer and a cheap HSS fixed pilot bit. So I handed him my router (a "top of the line" PC with a good ball bearing, carbide tipped bit) and a piece of wood. He routed the edge with ease and was completely surprised. So I told him "See... you're a better woodworker than you thought!"

I think this could be a very similar situation.....

[dan lemkin]

It turns out the fence was was off a tad and also the riving knife needed a fine adjustment. The fence is really easy to align with just the two cap screws on top of the fence...I was wondering what those were for. :)


Wow... I guess I should have opened the owners manual... I mean.... I really replaced my saw because I wanted the safety features of the SS... not because I am a complete moron... (Although the two are not mutually exclusive:p)

[Peter Scoma]

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here by suggesting that you will never get the kind of results you want cutting hard maple on a saw like the Bosh 4100. For one thing, it is totally underpowered (If this saw's motor puts out four HP, I will eat it). Also, direct drive saws are much more difficult to control, adjust and "fine tune" that belt driven saws. This "machine" is in a class of tool that until recently did not even exist. Now the BORGs are full of them. Inexpensive (so sorry but I mean "cheap") plastic, direct drive saws with flimsy aluminum fences and over-rated motors. OK, I realize that the $4 -600 you have to lay down for one of these saws does not seem "cheap" to most people. But for a table saw? Again so sorry, but that's cheap.



I hear what you are saying David but you are forgetting that the 4100 is not meant to be a stationary tool, its a jobsite saw. The cast aluminum table, alum fence and plastic base are to make the tool manageable for transport, not to make it "cheap." I think dragging around a cast table, belt driven saw with a cabinet base would be a little unrealistic onsite, dont you???

I had a late 90's unisaw in my old shop and the 4100 obviously doesn't compare in any way shape or form. Im in the situation now where I have a 90sq ft shop and a portable contractors saw is my only option. Of the contractor saws available the bosch is a solid performer and consistently rates well in the reviews. As I said before, I can saw 8/4 hard maple all day long without bogging down so if the OP is unable to cut 4/4 maple, its not the saws fault.

I think the 4100 sells for 599 at most places but I found mine at Sears while grill shopping for 349. Not a bad deal at all, though I am eager to get a little more space and a more substantial machine.

PS

[Myk Rian]

. not because I am a complete moron...
Was that you driving the hi-low in your avatar? :D:D

[David DeCristoforo]

"... but you are forgetting that the 4100 is not meant to be a stationary tool, its a jobsite saw..."

I hear you. But being a "portable jobsite saw" might also imply that ripping hard maple might not be it's best use... no? And FWIW, when I did onsite work, we always hauled a uni to the jobsite. Of course, these little portable saws did not exist then. I think this whole class of tools, which includes "lunchbox" planers and compound sliding miter saws, has made it possible for people to own this kind of equipment who would not have been able to when the only options were much more expensive. In many ways, this is an advantage but it should be understood that it is not necessarily reasonable to expect the same level of performance from these things that you would expect from their "professional grade" counterparts.

[Tony Bilello]

Well said.