Gonna stimulate economy this weekend - Lie Nielsen

[Dan Karachio]

Hi All,

I am going to my local woodcraft and will come home with a Lie Nielsen plane. Gonna buy American from a local retailer.

Question is, which one. I have been building my first doors and drawers and would like a plane to help me flatten the joints between stiles and rails to be seamless. Seems I often need to also slightly trim/taper door edges for a good fit. I am also joining wood for counters and would like something to smooth these out. I have the LN low angle adjustable mouth block plane. I am thinking my next best buy is a 4 1/2 smoothing plane. Am I on the right track?

Thanks,

Dan

[Jamie Cowan]

I'm certainly no expert, but I'd go with the 4 1/2 in your situation, and here's why: The LV block plane you already have is likely to cover a lot of different jobs. If your're like me, you've already got a decent selection of Stanleys, and you're probably missing the 4 1/2. I know I am. I've got multiples of 3 and 5, a 5 1/4, a 6 and a 7. 4 1/2 seems like a good place to start switching to LN, as it is a size that will get a lot of use, and the extra weight over a 4 makes it appealing. Anyway, that's where I'd start. Of course, being the hack that I am, if anyone caught me with a LN, they'd probably take it away from me, scold me, and give it to someone who could put it to better use. Have fun shopping. New tool day is one of the best kind of days, and those are scarce around here lately.

[Tristan Raymond]

I love my LN low angle jack, you might want to check that one out too.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

What would be the advantages of disadvantages of a 4 1/2 over a 4? Just curious for my own info....why would one chose one over the other, besides the weight difference?

[David Gendron]

I think if I would buy a LN smoothing plane, I would go for a 41\2 with the 50 or 55 degree angle frog, it will be a little harder to push but mor versatile in term of wood grain and figure!!
David

[David Gendron]

If I'm right I thing it also have a wider and longer sole! So less passes on wider surfaces! I think weight is a good thing for a smoothing plane, like infill plane semm to adress that realy well!
David

[Dan Sink]

I just stimulated the economy two weeks ago with my purchase of an LN 60-1/2. Its my first plane. It sure looks pretty and feels great in my hand, but I haven't used it yet.

I'm new to woodworking and don't have enough knowledge or skill to give an opinion of my own on your question. But the FAQs on the Lie Nielsen website says:


4. I want to purchase a plane but don't know where to start, what are your suggestions?
The single most useful tool is a low angle block plane. We have several, and any of them would be used every day in the shop. Next, I would consider our Low Angle Jack Plane. It is a very versatile tool, and in many peoples hands it can double as a smoothing plane. I t is also a unique tool with no other equivalent. With those two tools you can do a lot of work. Third, I might like a dedicated Smoothing Plane.

[Dan Sink]

I just stimulated the economy two weeks ago with my purchase of an LN 60-1/2. Its my first plane. It sure looks pretty and feels great in my hand, but I haven't used it yet.

I'm new to woodworking and don't have enough knowledge or skill to give an opinion of my own on your question. But the FAQs on the Lie Nielsen website says:


4. I want to purchase a plane but don't know where to start, what are your suggestions?
The single most useful tool is a low angle block plane. We have several, and any of them would be used every day in the shop. Next, I would consider our Low Angle Jack Plane. It is a very versatile tool, and in many peoples hands it can double as a smoothing plane. I t is also a unique tool with no other equivalent. With those two tools you can do a lot of work. Third, I might like a dedicated Smoothing Plane.


Okay, a little more browsing on the LN website revealed a contradiction on this point. On its bench planes page it says:

"Bench Planes are the workhorses of the shop. We make all sizes that Stanley did, from the tiny No. 1 to the huge No. 8. Each has its own charm, but personal preference plays a large part in choosing the right bench plane for a particular job. A beginner needs two basic sizes—a smoothing plane (No. 4 or 4½) and a Jointer (No. 7 or 8). A Jack Plane (usually a No. 5) would be the next most useful size."

So between the FAQs and the bench plane section, I've gotten you no closer to answering your question. Sorry. Whatever you end up with, I'm envious.

[Rick Erickson]

It really depends on if you plan on stopping your plane purchase after that. If you do I would go with the LN 5 1/2. If not, go with the 4 1/2 and pick up the 5 1/2 later on. The 5 1/2 (in my opinion) is the most versatile plane out there.

[Dan Karachio]

My only other plane worth using is the block plane. Rick, what makes the 5 1/2 so versatile. I just read a similar opinion in a mag.

[Jim Barrett]

I just picked up a LN 5 1/2 on Rob Cosman's recommendation. I also purchased the 55 HAF...let me say it is one heck of a plane...I also have a LN #7 with a 45 HAF...interchangeable with the 5 1/2.
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

The 5-1/2 is useful on wider stock. It is like a short jointer.

I have been working some 2X3 and 2X4 stock the last few days and it is a lot easier to edge and face plane these with a #5-1/2 than with a #4, #4-1/2 or #5.

The #6 and #7 are just a bit big and heavy for what I was doing. Since none of these are going to be edge joined, it is not critical to be perfect over the length, but a 5-1/2 used with care can also handle that.

jim

[David Gendron]

Personaly, my planes of choice are as folow, LA BU block plane(can be use as a small smoother), #6 fore plane for board prep, #7 LA BU jointer(could be use for smoothing large panels and great for end grain), And a dedicated smoother.
this would be my basic list!
Ho, by the way, I'm writhing all that stuff but no body knows me, I'm new to the creek, from whitehorse Yukon(canada). I try to start a fine woodworking buisness doing so with hand tools only... i know it sound crazy... But that's how we are, French Canadian...
David

[John Keeton]

...I'm writhing all that stuff but no body knows me, I'm new to the creek, from whitehorse Yukon(canada).We do now - and welcome! As a Canadian you were expected to profess your preference for Veritas planes!! But, I understand that LN has a very good following "up north."

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

For what its worth, and I'm far from expert...far from intermediate even...but I started w/ a stanley #5 and after taking a Charlesworth class @ LN, I bought the LN 5 1/2. That was about 2 years ago. I just purchased a 4 1/2 and am very happy.

I would go w/ a 4 1/2 for the simple reason, as someone else mentioned, it is interchangeable with the HAF for the 5 1/2 and #7 as well. Maybe you'd never swap it around, but the option is there when you are working with that pain in the rear wood that keeps tearing out.

As for harder to push w/ a HAF - I don't notice much difference on the 4.5. A good sharp blade and a scribble of beeswax on the sole and it might fly out of your hands! Maybe in 30 years when I'm 60 I'll have trouble, but no issues now.

Either way you go, just hang on, because it truly is a slippery slope. Although, I'm extremely content right now w/ a 4.5, 5.5 and the 7. (I say content because I just got my LN fix last week w/ a new chisel, boggs spokeshave, and a large router plane...)

[Rick Erickson]

Dan, to answer your question - because of its size and heft the 5 1/2 can play many roles. It can be used as a smoother, or to flatten boards, or even joint edges of shorter boards. I too started with the 5 1/2 on Rob Cosman's recommendation. I've since added several others but that was a very good start.

The LN 5 1/2 is an unbelievable plane. You won't regret your purchase. However, if you see yourself buying more planes than just one I would probably take a different route. I say that as if you really have a choice. The reality of it all is you don't. :eek: I'm convinced that Lie-Nielsen puts a drug in the handles of his planes. As soon as you touch one you enter the world of 'I want the rest'. This 'slope' I'm sure you've heard others talking about is all to real. There is no escaping it. Good luck with your purchase(s) :D

[John Keeton]

Maybe in 30 years when I'm 60 I'll have trouble, but no issues now. Easy there John!!! Some of us at that age are still going strong - at least in the fantasy of our own mind:D

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Easy there John!!! Some of us at that age are still going strong - at least in the fantasy of our own mind:D

lol. well that's good, keeps me optimistic! :) And there are probably a lot of guys in that age group that could outwork many 30-somethings.

[Jim Barrett]

Easy there John!!! Some of us at that age are still going strong - at least in the fantasy of our own mind:D

Yes, isn't 60 like the "new 40" ;)

[Jim Becker]

Yes, isn't 60 like the "new 40"

Amen to that!
-------

To the OP, I'd probably opt for the 4 or 4 1/2 next. I have a LN 4 and really like it. But I also have the #62 low angle jack and that's a fine tool, too. BTW, I started with the low-angle adjustable mouth block and it performed it's secret mission well: helping a tailed tool user learn to incorporate more and more hand-tool work into projects...darn those LN people! LOL

[David Keller NC]

"Question is, which one. I have been building my first doors and drawers and would like a plane to help me flatten the joints between stiles and rails to be seamless. Seems I often need to also slightly trim/taper door edges for a good fit. I am also joining wood for counters and would like something to smooth these out. I have the LN low angle adjustable mouth block plane. I am thinking my next best buy is a 4 1/2 smoothing plane. Am I on the right track?"

Dan - This will be a bit of an alternative opinion, but I'll explain my reasoning so you can decide what your preference is. For the purpose for which you've noted, I'd suggest a L-N #4.

I have many handplanes, and do the exact job you just mentioned exclusively with them (i.e., no wide-belt or random orbit sanding). I reach for a #4 for this job.

When you plane the intersection of the stiles/rails on a paneled door, you need to execute a 90 degree turn when going from the stile to the rail (this is on the last few passes when everything's getting pretty close to level), and a highly maneuverable, short-soled plane is an advantage here. I also have a L-N 5-1/2 (and a 4-1/2) in the shop - both are typically a bit unwieldy to use for this purpose.

In regards to trimming a door's edge to fit a cabinet frame, I also typically reach for the #4, because I'm not trying to shoot a straight edge. In fact, the length of the 5-1/2 (or a 6, or an 8) is a hindrance, as it dictates a straight edge and makes it difficult (actually, impossible) to take a shaving or two off the center of a door stile to deal with a frame that has a slight bow.

Finally, with respect to smoothing the joint lines on a glued-up panel, I typically do this job with a #8, but that's because I'm trying to flatten the whole panel. If I were only attempting to remove the slight arris between joined boards and absolute flatness is not required, I would do this with a #5-1/2, but the #4 would also be perfectly suitable for the purpose.

So - Why not a #4-1/2? I do use this plane in the shop, but typically only on wide, long boards that form a show surface. The reason I don't recommend this plane for a newbie is that because of its width and the fact that its a smoother, it's more difficult to get the lateral adjustment set correctly to avoid tracking the wood (i.e., for a very shallow cut, say 2-4 thousandths, the wider the blade, the more accurately you have to have the lateral adjustment set in terms of degrees). The plane is also considerably heavier and larger, and while that's an advantage on big wood, it's a detriment on small cabinet pieces, and while you can use a smaller plane on larger pieces, the reverse is not as convenient.

[Rick Erickson]

David, perfectly stated (if you have multiple planes in your shop - 4, 4 1/2, 5 1/2, etc.). The 4 is perfect for what Dan wants to do (IF that is all he is going to do with his plane). If he is only going to buy one more plane though I think the 5 1/2 is the ultimate. I own the 4 1/2, 5 1/2, & 8 - but you may have convinced me to buy a 4 :D